Please please please don't deconstruct the emperor!

[The Last Lamenter]

I can feel it coming. it's only a matter of time. It's like they can't resist. They're going to deconstruct him till they're is nothing left of the myth or mystery. The scifi fanboys are already slobbering for it, and the BB is going to oblige. It's already being hinted at in the HH. He'll be so deconstructed that we'll hate him like an abusive, alcoholic, racist, 1950s dad from some caricature-of-itself movie based in Hicktown Alabama, where he berates his beautiful, sensitive primarch children. They are going to Oedipus the living heck out of him. Watch. He'll be Joe Jackson within five years.

[Mr.Pickelz]

I personally would love to read about the emperor's Primarch finding mission, especially about his encounter on Fenris and with Leman Russ. :D

[daboarder]

welcome to the HH, destroying 40k background for a quick buck!

[Katharon]

welcome to the HH, destroying 40k background for a quick buck!

I would say illuminating, not destroying. What is great about the HH series is that we're learning first hand what happened, and can thereby see the true face of the "modern" Imperium and how it has fallen from the ideal that the Emperor wished it to become.

[Nabterayl]

He'll be so deconstructed that we'll hate him like an abusive, alcoholic, racist, 1950s dad from some caricature-of-itself movie based in Hicktown Alabama, where he berates his beautiful, sensitive primarch children.
Don't we ... already hate him? The Emperor is a terrible human being. When has that not been the case? :P

[Psychosplodge]

Don't we ... already hate him? The Emperor is a terrible human being. When has that not been the case? :P

He's human? :confused:

I doubt he'll be an american stereotype considering where the studio is...

[daboarder]

I would say illuminating, not destroying. What is great about the HH series is that we're learning first hand what happened, and can thereby see the true face of the "modern" Imperium and how it has fallen from the ideal that the Emperor wished it to become.

big point of the 40k background is that it has been 10000 years since the heresy and what is known is mostly myth scraps and congecture, by revealing every single detail oof the Heresy they are removing that mystery and speculation from the background.

again, the HH would make a great stand alone sci-fi saga, but its not stand alone.

[Mr Mystery]

Dude.

It's pretty obv.

Emperor is not the Emperor. He's just another Primarch type thing, but is to a Primarch what a Primarch is to a Marine.

Real power behind the throne is the Sigilite. And he continues to be up to something.....

[Katharon]

Dude.

It's pretty obv.

Emperor is not the Emperor. He's just another Primarch type thing, but is to a Primarch what a Primarch is to a Marine.

Real power behind the throne is the Sigilite. And he continues to be up to something.....

*blink*

Mystery, you're not wearing your tin-foil hat. Whenever you're spouting out these weird theories, you know you're suppose to be wearing the tin-foil hat! [/end of lulz]

There has never been any doubt about the relationship between the Emperor and the primarchs. That the relationship between the Emperor and the Primarchs reflects the same relationship between the Primarchs and their Astartes is only natural. A Space Marine is a diluted reflection of the Emperor himself via the primarchs. But for all that, the Emperor is a singular being. There is no one as like Him.

Malcador the Sigilite is an interesting character. I'd love to see them do a book on him and his origins. You have to just know that he was the ruler of a nation before the Unification Wars and that he proved himself a worth adversary against the Emperor before realizing - by revelation from the Emperor - that Unification was the only answer and therefore submitted to the Golden Throne. He is, at best, a side-kick for the Emperor. This is even more greatly displayed when Malcador takes the Emperor's seat on the Golden Throne while the Emperor dealt with Horus in orbit. Even only sitting on the Golden Throne for such a short time (only a few hours at best) was enough to kill Malcador, even though he was the second most powerful psyker after the Emperor (and perhaps Magnus).


big point of the 40k background is that it has been 10000 years since the heresy and what is known is mostly myth scraps and congecture, by revealing every single detail oof the Heresy they are removing that mystery and speculation from the background.


Not at all! Just because you know more about something does not lessen it's wonder. Ancient man thought that the lights in the sky were gods moving about in the heavens -- but now modern man knows them to be balls of gas, stars of brilliant light; but for all that knowledge we still gaze upon them with as much delight as before. If anything, I appreciate the modern setting of WH40K more now that I am more fully seeing into the past. You need to put yourself further into the shoes of the characters within the stories, to explore their minds in a fashion unique to first-person perspectives.

Maybe I'm just strange like that, but I hardly think that the mystery or mythology is gone. And there is still *a lot* of further speculation to feed upon even with the many revelations of the HH series; such as the fate of the missing two primarchs, or the truth of whats on Mars in the Labyrinth of Night, etc.


again, the HH would make a great stand alone sci-fi saga, but its not stand alone.

I think this would be impossible. There is too much information, too many plot lines, for a stand alone to encompass it all. It would only leave us readers wanting more and disappointed with what we did get -- the vast majority at least.

[Gotthammer]

I think this would be impossible. There is too much information, too many plot lines, for a stand alone to encompass it all. It would only leave us readers wanting more and disappointed with what we did get -- the vast majority at least.

I disagree on this - I mean if HH were standalone and not tied to a final outcome for the major players you could have much more dramatic storytelling. For instance Peturabo, upon seeing Fulgrim's ascension, could have turned away from the heresy and attempted to go back to the Imperial fold. Would his Legion follow him? Would the Primarchs accept him? Sanguinius and Guilliman might, but I doubt Dorn ever would. Things like that could happen if it were simply a singular tale that can't happen as we know what choice he makes and where it leads him and his Legion.

[Katharon]

I disagree on this - I mean if HH were standalone and not tied to a final outcome for the major players you could have much more dramatic storytelling. For instance Peturabo, upon seeing Fulgrim's ascension, could have turned away from the heresy and attempted to go back to the Imperial fold. Would his Legion follow him? Would the Primarchs accept him? Sanguinius and Guilliman might, but I doubt Dorn ever would. Things like that could happen if it were simply a singular tale that can't happen as we know what choice he makes and where it leads him and his Legion.

That's the thing though: we always knew the ending. Horus rebels. Horus fights the Emperor. Horus dies. The Emperor is interned upon the Golden Throne. The Legions of Chaos retreat to the Eye of Terror. Guilliman rebuilds the Imperium and forever alters the Legiones Astartes into the Codex Astartes.

A stand alone book could hardly devote the page space to go into such detail as was displayed in "Angel Exterminatus," since the ascension of Fulgrim into a Daemon-Primarch would have only been a short part amongst the almost dozen of similar stories -- some more important to the central story (illustrated above) than others. "What If" scenarios like the one you are describing in detail wouldn't be possible without the fleshed out mass of books we've received thus far in the HH series.

So, you're kind of arguing my point for me by such conjecture.

[Gotthammer]

Do you mean a singular standalone book? Because then I agree with you it would be impossible, but I was meaning a standalone series which, no, does not support your point.

[Katharon]

Do you mean a singular standalone book? Because then I agree with you it would be impossible, but I was meaning a standalone series which, no, does not support your point.

The HH series *is* a series and not a stand-alone...the hell you two smoking and can I have some?

[Wolfshead]

Dude.

It's pretty obv.

Emperor is not the Emperor. He's just another Primarch type thing, but is to a Primarch what a Primarch is to a Marine.

Real power behind the throne is the Sigilite. And he continues to be up to something.....

There's a part of me that would love this to be the case. That the biggest lie of them all isn't that Chaos exists and wants to eat your soul, but that the big guy in golden armour is nothing more than a psychic projection or a genetic construct, used as an obvious figurehead for humanity to unite behind so Malcador can pull the strings and found the Imperium from the relative safety of his place behind his own throne.

It does make some kind of sense on the one hand, as the background does talk about the Emperor guiding humanity from behind the scenes of many, if not all, of humanities greatest events and civilisations, so if it turns out that Malcador is the "true" Emperor and the being that is front and centre and answers to the "title" is just his tool, then it isn't going to be entirely out of left field and going against what went before. Of course, very few people, if anyone, can find out about it so that the Big Guy can get all the credit.

I suspect there are some details in the Heresy series that would make this a non-starting theory, especially since I haven't read everything (only the main novels up to Betrayer) so I'm probably missing something. I still think it's interesting, though, even for a "what if?" scenario.

[YorkNecromancer]

They're going to deconstruct him till they're is nothing left of the myth or mystery.

Wait: we're going to be shocked that The Emperor isn't actually a god? Just a fairly horrible fascist dictator with better science?

How is that something we don't already know? :confused:

(I've just realised: dictator + psychic powers + mad science + plan to rule the galaxy =

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/bison-cfe.jpg)

[Nabterayl]

Wait: we're going to be shocked that The Emperor isn't actually a god? Just a fairly horrible fascist dictator with better science?

How is that something we don't already know? :confused:
Seriously. Had everything gone according to plan in the Emperor's vision, the galaxy would be a rationalist dystopia ruled by a megalomaniacal mass murderer, built on the bones of countless dead. He was not a nice man. He was ... I guess as admirable as Alexander. He (either he) can be admired as a visionary, as a charismatic leader, and as a personally fearsome warrior, but he should also be reviled as a megalomaniac, an inveterate conquistador, and a perpetrator of crimes against humanity on a scale previously undreamt.

I mean ... I guess I wouldn't want him deconstructed more than that. I wouldn't want to find out that in fact the Emperor was not a visionary, nor charismatic, nor a personally fearsome warrior, but was still a great villain. But we don't need the Horus Heresy novels to tell us he was a great villain.

[YorkNecromancer]

Had everything gone according to plan in the Emperor's vision, the galaxy would be a rationalist dystopia ruled by a megalomaniacal mass murderer, built on the bones of countless dead.

This so much. Like, I seriously don't understand how anyone can possibly see the Imperium as anything but a horrific evil, no matter the era. Yeah, the neo-feudal societies that *generally* existed before the crusades may have been bad, but the Orwellian nightmare of the Imperium is somehow an improvement?! It's like trying avoid jellyfish when you go boating by climbing into a live Great White shark.

These are the good guys?! No. Just because they say they are, doesn't mean it's true. Every villain thinks he's a hero; every political monster justifies atrocity in the name of "protecting the children". Those guys who talk about "the greater good" (be they the Emperor, the Tau or Gellert Grindelwald) - those guys are Not To Be Trusted.

I've said it before Chaos vs the Imperium = Satanists vs Fascists. The outcome doesn't really matter - humanity loses no matter what. Great fun, but anyone who thinks the Imperium are the good guys is nuts.

[BrianDavion]

I'm gonna argue with those whom call the Emperor a Meglomaniac.

Meglomania is described as dellusions of power, relevance and omnipoteance. is it really meglomania if you really ARE the most powerful human (indeed quite possiably mortal) in the galaxy?

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Um i don't envision the emperor nor do i invision the great crusade as mass genocide nor do i look at his plan as being a bad thing am i crazy? no the emperor saw what chaos was and was ready to defeat chaos as well as protecting humanity from vile alien scum. thats the central idea behind 40k.... had the emperor been able to complete his goal then humanity would have been set. chaos would not be what it is the orks and other xenos races would be crushed under the boots of humanity. the heresy is that tragic event that dashes the emperors dreams and plans. that is the central storyline.... humanity would be alive and well under his rule. inmstead its broken down into a nightmare this was and is not the emperors imperium it is a twisted version a version built by corrupt men and opressive control of the high lords of tera. I know i do not view my space marines as evil nor are my imperial guard a bunch of genocidal lunatics... the tau are a bunch of subjugating commies you have chaos who wants to kill all orks who are certianly evil nids are evil then you have eldar who are just as evil because they will do what ever they need to do in order to survive. yes they are portrayed as the good guys because they help the imperium when it suits them and yet they are just as likely to stab them in the back when it suits them as well. sure space marines kill whole worlds that rebel. you would do the same thing to keep territory... the romans did it... do we call them a bunch of genocidal evil megolomaniacs? for me the emperor is julius cesar he did what he had to do.

[The Last Lamenter]

Hear me! We've heard of Danish heroes,

ancient kings and the glory they cut

for themselves, swinging mighty swords!


How Shild made slaves of soldiers from every

land, crowds of captives he'd beaten 5

into terror; he'd travelled to Denmark alone,

an abandoned child, but changed his own fate,

lived to be rich and much honored. He ruled

lands on all sides: wherever the sea

would take them his soldiers sailed, returned 10

with tribute and obedience. There was a brave

King! And he gave them more than his glory,

conceived a son for the Danes, a new leader

allowed them by the grace of the God. They had lived,

before his coming, kingless and miserable; 15

now the Lord of all life, Ruler

of glory, blessed them with a prince, Beo,

whose power and fame soon spread through the world.

Shild's strong son was the glory of Denmark;

his father's warriors were wound round his heart 20

with golden rings, bound to their prince

by his father's treasure.

This is a king! He is the epitome of pre-Arthurian, Anglo-Saxon Gut Kenning. And when he dies, it's like when Beowulf dies, when Theodin falls at Pelinor Fields, when Caesar is killed, when king David dies, but now we can't celebrate him, we have to deconstruct him, subject him to our watered-down, post-Christian, slave morality, and talk about his cruel imperialism and lack of interest in social justice. God forbid we should, "for God's sake, sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings," because as Miller says, "who weeps for these, weeps for corruption."

[Nabterayl]

Um i don't envision the emperor nor do i invision the great crusade as mass genocide nor do i look at his plan as being a bad thing am i crazy? no the emperor saw what chaos was and was ready to defeat chaos as well as protecting humanity from vile alien scum. thats the central idea behind 40k.... had the emperor been able to complete his goal then humanity would have been set. chaos would not be what it is the orks and other xenos races would be crushed under the boots of humanity. the heresy is that tragic event that dashes the emperors dreams and plans. that is the central storyline.... humanity would be alive and well under his rule. inmstead its broken down into a nightmare this was and is not the emperors imperium it is a twisted version a version built by corrupt men and opressive control of the high lords of tera. I know i do not view my space marines as evil nor are my imperial guard a bunch of genocidal lunatics... the tau are a bunch of subjugating commies you have chaos who wants to kill all orks who are certianly evil nids are evil then you have eldar who are just as evil because they will do what ever they need to do in order to survive. yes they are portrayed as the good guys because they help the imperium when it suits them and yet they are just as likely to stab them in the back when it suits them as well. sure space marines kill whole worlds that rebel. you would do the same thing to keep territory... the romans did it... do we call them a bunch of genocidal evil megolomaniacs? for me the emperor is julius cesar he did what he had to do.
Well, as has come up several other times in this forum, 40K has room for the story you want to tell. We absolutely do think that the Romans were a bunch of genocidal evil megalomaniacs. So was Alexander the Great, and pretty much every other monarch with "the Great" after his or her name. That doesn't mean they didn't have wonderful, inspiring qualities, or that they didn't do any good in the world. You can be a genocidal megalomaniacal mass murderer and war criminal and still be a hero, after all. The Emperor was certainly out to destroy Chaos, because ... well, because. I guess if you think Chaos is evil, that's good. He was certainly a charismatic leader, a visionary, and a fearsome warrior, all of which I personally consider intrinsically admirable qualities even if they aren't always used in the service of admirable causes. But it wasn't just Chaos that he declared war on. He also declared war on every form of non-human sentient life in existence, because ... well, because. He declared war on the very idea that anybody but he could lead humanity, so if a planet didn't want to join the Imperium they were declared race traitors and conquered. He declared war on the very idea of religion, because he was convinced that religion was intrinsically evil. He decided to conquer the galaxy biologically and culturally because he was convinced that he knew what was best for it. As Polybius said of the Romans, he created a desolation and called it peace.

But that's just one way to tell the story. It fits the facts, but it emphasizes them in a particular way. It's the version of 40K I find most compelling. It's not the version that everybody needs to find most compelling.


This is a king! He is the epitome of pre-Arthurian, Anglo-Saxon Gut Kenning. And when he dies, it's like when Beowulf dies, when Theodin falls at Pelinor Fields, when Caesar is killed, when king David dies, but now we can't celebrate him, we have to deconstruct him, subject him to our watered-down, post-Christian, slave morality, and talk about his cruel imperialism and lack of interest in social justice. God forbid we should, "for God's sake, sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings," because as Miller says, "who weeps for these, weeps for corruption."
One of the things I like best about 40K is that it has room for both. I don't see why you can't admire the heroism of a space marine who accepts a life of slavery even as you view him as a slaver and a slave, or why you can't admire an ork for defiantly pursuing a life of happiness even if that happiness involves the savage slaughter of dozens or hundreds of other sentient beings, many of them defenseless. Realizing the horror of the fact that Alexander killed more Greeks than the Achaemenid Empire did in its entire existence doesn't need to stop you from admiring the way that he inspired those around him to believe in themselves and what they could accomplish. Villainy and heroism are not incompatible with each other in real people.

[daboarder]

Not at all! Just because you know more about something does not lessen it's wonder. Ancient man thought that the lights in the sky were gods moving about in the heavens -- but now modern man knows them to be balls of gas, stars of brilliant light; but for all that knowledge we still gaze upon them with as much delight as before. If anything, I appreciate the modern setting of WH40K more now that I am more fully seeing into the past. You need to put yourself further into the shoes of the characters within the stories, to explore their minds in a fashion unique to first-person perspectives.


actually yeah thats pretty much EXACTLY what it does, particularly when the details are bland and trite story telling that is getting to where its supposed to be about as fast as a japanese manga.....

The HH was powerful because it relied on each persons own imagination to build the story, as such it was essentially limitless in its scope. By putting down in text what happened all those endless possibilities are now destoryed as we KNOW definitely how it happened.

take horus, instead of his fall being shrouded in mystery and the power of chaos, a story which used to conjure up the idea of climactic psychological struggles between horus and the powers of chaos, we have a trixie marine getting the warmaster stabbed.....

Also there was the chance for the primarchs to be truly and utterly evil but almost all of them bar fulgrim have been repainted as tragedies of misunderstanding instead of unique falls from grace.

[Katharon]

actually yeah thats pretty much EXACTLY what it does, particularly when the details are bland and trite story telling that is getting to where its supposed to be about as fast as a japanese manga.....

The HH was powerful because it relied on each persons own imagination to build the story, as such it was essentially limitless in its scope. By putting down in text what happened all those endless possibilities are now destoryed as we KNOW definitely how it happened.

take horus, instead of his fall being shrouded in mystery and the power of chaos, a story which used to conjure up the idea of climactic psychological struggles between horus and the powers of chaos, we have a trixie marine getting the warmaster stabbed.....

Also there was the chance for the primarchs to be truly and utterly evil but almost all of them bar fulgrim have been repainted as tragedies of misunderstanding instead of unique falls from grace.


Ah, now we're getting somewhere. You're mad because the HH series has not lived up to your particular expectations and in doing so "ruined" whatever version of events you yourself had created in your mind's eye.

[daboarder]

wow man, please put more words and attitude in my mouth. I'm not mad, I'm just bored with the Horus heresy and explaining why in my opinion its a bad thing (or more realistically just not that good).


Its nothing to do with expectation its about allowing the imagination of the audience to do the work for you.
This has been how GW wrote the horus heresy in the past, now they have "unveiled" that and removed the mystery it can live up to no ones imagination. the old heresy concept was a collective built from the minds of every single player and fan of 40k that contributed to it. (an extreme example being the old fly lords campaign) the new one is the product of a handful of minds, and will always lack the depth that the human imagination was able to provide.

[Katharon]

wow man, please put more words and attitude in my mouth. I'm not mad, I'm just bored with the Horus heresy and explaining why in my opinion its a bad thing (or more realistically just not that good).


Its nothing to do with expectation its about allowing the imagination of the audience to do the work for you.
This has been how GW wrote the horus heresy in the past, now they have "unveiled" that and removed the mystery it can live up to no ones imagination. the old heresy concept was a collective built from the minds of every single player and fan of 40k that contributed to it. (an extreme example being the old fly lords campaign) the new one is the product of a handful of minds, and will always lack the depth that the human imagination was able to provide.

Firstly, I apologize for assuming you were angry. That was what I inferred from your post and the language therein. Hard to convey tone in text.

Second, there were a lot of reasons behind them not revealing too many details about the HH before the series began publication. The major reason, one that I confirmed when I had an awesome chance to meet Mr. Priestley at a Warlord Games event, was that the game makers themselves hadn't thought that far out. They didn't make a more detailed background because no one at the time thought there was a need. Instead, the vague knowledge that "modern" 40K had fit with that fact and there was no need to elaborate. It was only recently when there was more vocal demand from players to know more, and that BL had a sufficient number of able authors capable of it, that GW decided to take that step. It was also a great commercial success (#1 reason for any company to do anything).

Lastly, I would remind you that those "handful of minds" are some of the best 40K authors that have yet been published. Dan Abnett being my personal favorite. If anyone could be expected to write such books in detail and well, then I would expect it to come from Mr. Abnett.

[Katharon]

Also, what the heck is the Fly Lords campaign? I've searched a bit and can't find any references. The only time I am aware of players directly influencing the story with GW's concent was the Eye of Terror campaign, which they subsequently stopped doing when they realized how quickly the story was changing.

[daboarder]

it was a campaign book done by bigred and the blokes at bols long before FW was doing the horus heresy (4th ed I think), they've done 3 actually. it was based on the horus heresy info to date, and was made with considerable community input. honestly it was a fantastic piece of work and I can't wait till bigred decides to do another. (perhaps the apostasy?)

Horus heresy
the badab war
Macharius crusade

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48680502/Codex-Warhammer-30k-Horus-Heresy

[daboarder]

Heres another example of inconsistencies in the HH

Prince of crows, night haunter is stuck on teh lions flagship

Vulkan lives (he is being tortured by the night haunter on the night haunters ship)

but in unrembered empire, we get vulkan appearing on calth, at the same time the night haunter is escaping from the lions ship....

WTF?

[BrianDavion]

the obvious answer to that daboarder is that Cruze ended up trapped on the Lion's flagship sometime between when we last see him in Vulkan lives, Prince of Crows.

warp travel tends to be pretty weird, I think it's safe to say that it travels at the speed of plot. so we have no long how long Vulken was teleporting before he ended up over Mccragge. we also have to remember, Vulken is INSANE. even by the beginning of Vulken lives, he was seeing and hearing things. it's entirely possiable his perceptions where warped

[Katharon]

Anything not done by GW is fan-made, so even if it was a "big" event, such as a BoLS -sponsored campaign, it's not going to advance the story at all. It will/would be forever fan-fiction "What if".

As to the inconsistencies in the HH series, I can only say that it was bound to happen. It's such a plethora of interweaving story lines that some slippage is bound to happen. It shouldn't, because I expect the BL team to know better than that, but it happens.

[Poseidal]

welcome to the HH, destroying 40k background for a quick buck!

+1

It would be good if they made it so the HH didn't happen as the novels did, but remained mysterious and what actually happened was more akin to what you see in Space Marine (game).

Then all the HH books can be put into the category the Space Marine (novel) is.

[Katharon]

+1

It would be good if they made it so the HH didn't happen as the novels did, but remained mysterious and what actually happened was more akin to what you see in Space Marine (game).

Then all the HH books can be put into the category the Space Marine (novel) is.


...that still wouldn't make the HH books non-canon. So, I really don't see it happening. However, there is already an in-game mechanic for the "HH books" to not exist: the fact that no one in the modern time period of the WH40K game (M41) knows exactly what happened. Most records were either destroyed by neglect, forgotten, or put under censure by the nascent Inquisition. Ergo, if you really wanted to, you can say that the HH books are all hearsay and rumors that only a fool would believe.

But, for those that care to *know*, the books give us concrete details.

[Iyandagar]

Got to be honest... Not entirely sure what the reasoning for this thread is but it compelled me to throw my tuppence worth in. Prior to reading a single Horus Heresy book, my knowledge of the background was that some geezer called Horus decided he could run the show better than another geezer called The Emperor (grandiose I know), in so doing the galaxy went a bit wonky and wound up with a bit of hair pulling and slaps until Horus was dead and The Emperor (grandiose I know) was put on the golden crapper for eternity. It didn't really figure much more than that and certainly didn't stop me enjoying getting LongFang spammed on an almost weekly occurrence. I am now ploughing through Fear to Tread, having read all of the preceding books and honestly having a whale of a time with it...

I remember my trepidation at the expansion books that hit and are still hitting the shelves for Star Wars, I resisted... And resisted some more.... Until I capitulated and read a friends copy of the Thrawn trilogy, from that point on I have bought pretty much every book, with the odd exception, Planet of Twilight; I have loved them all. Even when they decided to off Chewie... I was there cursing the Yuuzhan Vong...

I digress, I guess my point is nobody is forcing you to accept the background from the makers... So if you think the Emperor (grandiose I know) was a combover'd dirtbag, Horus was just a guy wanting his Papa Bear to take him the the football and buy him a hotdog and tell him he loved him or Lorgar as a jumped up dufus oh wait... You can. It's your hobby, likewise if you want to paint your Space Wolves' armour green, you can.

In summary, I think the Emperor (grandiose I know) is a jumped up, combover'd plank and my alien scum Eldar are anything but scum as they often host movie nights and charades with any race willing to get to their Craftworld. They also offer free parking and a valet service if you take out a loyalty card and attend atleast 3 outreach events promoting harmony and friendships per calendar year.

[Psychosplodge]

I remember my trepidation at the expansion books that hit and are still hitting the shelves for Star Wars, I resisted... And resisted some more.... Until I capitulated and read a friends copy of the Thrawn trilogy, from that point on I have bought pretty much every book, with the odd exception, Planet of Twilight; I have loved them all. Even when they decided to off ******... I was there cursing the Yuuzhan Vong....

See I the starwars EU starts at the Han Solo trilogy, Nothing exists before that. :D