Space Marine Dual Raider 1,500

[Chexmix282]

I'm attending a local tourney at the end of the month and would like to run a dual Land Raider Crusader army. I've always been a fan of ridiculous and/or unbalanced lists and two Land Raiders are often tough to deal with at 1,500 points.


Primary Detachment - Codex Space Marines
Iron Hands Chapter Tactics

HQ
Chapter Master 235
-Terminator Armor, The Shield Eternal, Thunder Hammer

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad 220
-4 w/ Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield, 1 w/ Lightning Claws
Land Raider Crusader 260
-Multi-Melta

Terminator Assault Squad 225
-5 w/ Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
Land Raider Crusader 260
-Multi-Melta

Troops
Tactical Squad 150
-Flamer; Razorback w/ Lascannon & TL Plasmagun

Tactical Squad 150
-Flamer; Razorback w/ Lascannon & TL Plasmagun


Roster Total: 1,500


I use Iron Hands chapter tactics for the Land Raiders and my Chapter Master. It Will Not Die is very good on models with 4 HP or 4 Wounds. These Chapter Tactics are the only reason why I am using a generic Chapter Master instead of Lysander. The 6+ Feel No Pain is just gravy! For those unfamiliar with the new SM codex relics and the IWND rule, this means my Chapter Master has 4 Wounds, 2+/3++/6+ FnP, Eternal Warrior, and every turn regains a lost wound on a 5+. My land raiders and Razorback also regain Hull Points every turn on a 5+.

Thoughts on the list? I think this is just what is needed to shake up my local meta of Tau/Eldar and Daemons.

[ElectricPaladin]

I would worry about this list's ability to take objectives. You only have two scoring units, both of them kind of small... What's going to happen if someone pops their razorbacks and forces them to walk across the table? You could win on attrition but - if your opponent is smart - lose on victory points.

Additionally, what's your logic behind one clawminator in squad one? The wisdom I have always received is that hammernators are intrinsically superior, and even if you wanted to do clawminators, they're best used in homogenous squads (because that way you know what you're aiming the squad after for maximum efficiency).

[Chexmix282]

I would worry about this list's ability to take objectives. You only have two scoring units, both of them kind of small... What's going to happen if someone pops their razorbacks and forces them to walk across the table? You could win on attrition but - if your opponent is smart - lose on victory points.

Additionally, what's your logic behind one clawminator in squad one? The wisdom I have always received is that hammernators are intrinsically superior, and even if you wanted to do clawminators, they're best used in homogenous squads (because that way you know what you're aiming the squad after for maximum efficiency).

Objectives certainly are a concern with this list. If necessary I will reserve the Razorbacks to preserve them until later turns.

One unit has a single pair of claws because I couldn't find 5 points to upgrade every model to TH/SS. I want to keep the Flamers on the Tactical Squads to give them a little effectiveness.

[Chexmix282]

Hmmmm, what about this list? A little less firepower, but more scoring bodies! I lose out on the awesomeness of the Chapter Master, but 235 points is a little expensive for a single model in 1,500 points.

Primary Detachment - Codex Space Marines
Iron Hands Chapter Tactics

HQ
Librarian 65
-Not sure what lore to use...

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad 225
-5 w/ Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
Land Raider Crusader 260
-Multi-Melta

Terminator Assault Squad 225
-5 w/ Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
Land Raider Crusader 260
-Multi-Melta

Troops
Tactical Squad 120
-Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Rhino

Tactical Squad 115
-Multi-Melta, Rhino

Tactical Squad 115
-Multi-Melta, Rhino

Tactical Squad 115
-Multi-Melta, Rhino


Roster Total: 1,500

I like this list quite a bit more. I opted for Multi-Meltas in the Tactical Squads as they allow me to create a large area of the board where my opponent will not want to place vehicles. The Flamer unit will likely be accompanied by the Librarian (keeping him mobile) and will be used to clear small units from objectives. The large amount of vehicle hulls in this list really compliments the Iron Hands chapter tactics.

[ElectricPaladin]

This is a lot more to my liking. Lots more scoring units in durable vehicles, lots of threats.

I recommend Biomancy. Some of those powers are killer for assault units.

[Chexmix282]

Oh wow, Biomancy does look good. I haven't used anything outside of Divination for the whole of 6th edition, so I was a little stuck on what to pick.

I will playtest and report how the list does. I think I want one Tactical Squad to have a Missile Launcher or Lascannon at the expense of the Combi-Flamer. Having an entire army with range 24" is not appealing to me.

[ElectricPaladin]

I will playtest and report how the list does. I think I want one Tactical Squad to have a Missile Launcher or Lascannon at the expense of the Combi-Flamer. Having an entire army with range 24" is not appealing to me.

Personally, I love missile launchers. They are nice and versatile: a heavy infantry busting 8/3 that can snap shot if need be or a horde shredding 4/6 blast. Nothing not to love.

[Chexmix282]

Personally, I love missile launchers. They are nice and versatile: a heavy infantry busting 8/3 that can snap shot if need be or a horde shredding 4/6 blast. Nothing not to love.

I love Missile Launchers myself. What do you think of me dropping one Tac Squad in favor of a 5 man Devastator Squad armed with 4 Missile Launchers? I like the additional firepower but kinda wanted to go all-mechanized in case Hellturkeys show up.

[ElectricPaladin]

I love Missile Launchers myself. What do you think of me dropping one Tac Squad in favor of a 5 man Devastator Squad armed with 4 Missile Launchers? I like the additional firepower but kinda wanted to go all-mechanized in case Hellturkeys show up.

If what you're afraid of is hellturkeys, what you need is a flyer of your own, or something with Skyfire. Maybe one of those new anti-aircraft tanks? Or you could put your devs behind an aegis defense line - added bonus, you can upgrade it to include a gun with Skyfire AND Intercept AND it benefits from the dev sergeant's signum.

I think three scoring units at 1.5k is fine.

[Chexmix282]

I could even spring for Flakk Missiles on the devs if necessary. I think I like the all mech force more, as it really takes advantage of the Iron Hands' chapter tactics. I'll likely stick with that. More Rhinos = more better, am I right?

[MrBo]

something to think about, as i play my csm against UM regularly.
the devastator squad doesnt necessarily have to bring flakk, put them behind an aegis wall, sergeant on either the icarus or quadgun, and use ultramarines chapter tacts of rerolling ones. if u bring marneus you can do that for 2 turns. it was scary to me, and i am running 2 heldrakes.

[Chexmix282]

That's not a bad idea, but I am not very fond of Ultramarines chapter tactics in almost any other case. They do not benefit the list nearly as much as It Will Not Die for the vehicles. Thanks for the suggestion!