Forgeworld: Fire Raptor rules

[Brakkart]

The model itself isn't on general sale just yet, but Forgeworld have posted up the experimental rules for people to take a look at. Rather tasty they are too:

Fire Raptor rules (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/F/fire-raptor.pdf)

[Mr Mystery]

Phwoar!!!!!!

[Patrick Boyle]

The Relic of the Armoury rules are an interesting way to handle all of the supposedly super rare equipment that's cropping up from FW lately. I imagine the Sicaran tank, if it does get 40k approved rules like it's been rumored, will have the same restriction.

As for the Raptor itself, it's definitely interesting. Are Hellstrikes the missles on the Thunderhawk? I'm not familiar with the profile for them. And hey, it's a FW flier that Blood Angels can actually take. Chaos seems to get the better deal, not having to pay the 20 point tax for what, on this guy at least, seems to be a largely pointless machine spirit upgrade, as well as getting a 10 point upgrade to that reaper battery profile.

[ElectricPaladin]

Would it be unscrupulous to request that someone post a summary of the rules here?

I can't get to Forgeworld through my work's content filtering :(

[Patrick Boyle]

Would it be unscrupulous to request that someone post a summary of the rules here?

I can't get to Forgeworld through my work's content filtering :(

Given it's a freely available PDF I don't see why there'd be a problem...

Heavy Support Flyer/Hover 220 for non-chaos(All chapters, including BA, and the Tyrant's Legion list from IA9), 200 for chaos

12 AV all around, 4 HP
Comes stock with:
Avenger Bolt Cannot - S6 AP3 Heavy 7
2 Independent Turret-mounted quad heavy bolters - S5 AP4 Heavy 6 Twin-Linked
4 Hellstrike missles - no profile given
Machine Spirit (loyalist only)
extra armor

Special rules:
Deep Strike
Strafing Run
Independent Turret Fire(described below)
Relic of the Armoury(Non-HH Legion lists only)

Any can take Armoured Ceramite
10pts Chaos and HH Legion armies can replace quad bolters with Reaper battery - S7 AP4 Heavy 4 twin-linked

Blood Angels can replace the Hellstrikes with these weird Large Blast blind/locator beacon missles for free

Non-Chaos(Marines, Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Vangaurd assault armies and Tyrant's Legion) can replace the quad bolters with twin linked autocannons for free

As long as you're normally able to shoot, the turret weapons(quad bolters, reaper battery or autocannons depending what you take) can each fire at their own target independently, and don't count against the number of weapons the Fire Raptor is able to fire in the shooting phase(hence why having Machine spirit, and paying 20 points for it seems sort of pointless).

Chaos raptor can take daemonic possession for 20

Then there's the 'Relic of the Armoury' special rule. Basically, a primary detachment(and by the wording it looks like only a primary detachment) can have one model with that rule normally. If you wish to take a second model with 'Relic of the Armoury' in your primary detachment, the detachment must include a Master of the Forge, Interrogator-Chaplain, Recluisarch, Rune Priest with Beastslayer, or Warpsmith, specific codex dependant, obviously. This represents the rarity of the vehicle requiring the blessing of some 'keeper of relics' to oversee their use.

[rxcky]

Hellstrike Missiles are Guard things that usually come on a Valkyrie, assuming they don"t go and change the profile. 72 range, str 8, ap 3, Ordnance, 1 shot. Liking the independent turret rules, this thing can pump out an obscene amount of fire power a turn and can shoot at up to four different targets, very nice. Shame there's no transport capacity though, that would be asking for too much.

[Defenestratus]

The revelation battery for the BA seems a bit ... weird.

Unless i"m reading it incorrectly, it basically would only work for units arriving turn 3 at the earliest. Not seeing the point here unless that Revelation battery is something we're going to see in an updated BA Digital dex given to whirlwinds or something....

[Patrick Boyle]

The revelation battery for the BA seems a bit ... weird.

Unless i"m reading it incorrectly, it basically would only work for units arriving turn 3 at the earliest. Not seeing the point here unless that Revelation battery is something we're going to see in an updated BA Digital dex given to whirlwinds or something....

Yeah, and the blind it inflicts isn't going to be around to help them either. Strange all around.

[Tyrendian]

I don't really see the point of the Fire Raptor in and of itself, with the loadout it has now, at least for Codex Marines etc... quite the disappointment after the ridonculous R'Varna :D
The anti-Infantry firepower it brings is not that much better than a Storm Eagle's Vengeance Launcher (looking at the model it seems very hard to point both turrets at the same target anyway), and the SE has some very decent AV options (which this thing kinda lacks - at least for heavier targets), and it's a very decent transport. Although the config I usually run comes in at a hefty 300pts, that's one dead tank (2 TL Lascannons and a TL Multi-Melta in short range will do that to most things below a LR...) and two whirlwinds firing at a juicy infantry target (Omnissiah bless the Machine Spirit on that thing...), plus in bigger games there's usually someone inside waiting to say hi...

Chaos seems to get the much better deal here - that's an awful lot of S7 BS5 TL shots for a very affordable price!

[Houghten]

The Avenger strike fighter is feeling a bit annoyed right now. Space Marines took its signature weapon and twin-linked it at higher BS...

[Tyrendian]

ok thinking again, I might have mightily underestimated that thing... am I reading that right? Can the Fire Raptor really fire all its weapons in the turn it arrives? The four Hellstrikes as per normal, Machine Spirit (by the way, is it just me or is there no such thing as a functional Wargear called Machine Spirit? Shouldn't that be the rule Power of the Machine Spirit? :) )takes care of the Avenger, and the turrets are independent anyway...

[Katharon]

I kinda just hate it. I'm sick of Space Marines getting so many flyers. I want to see some more Eldar, Tau, Ork, or IG flyers.

[rxcky]

ok thinking again, I might have mightily underestimated that thing... am I reading that right? Can the Fire Raptor really fire all its weapons in the turn it arrives? The four Hellstrikes as per normal, Machine Spirit (by the way, is it just me or is there no such thing as a functional Wargear called Machine Spirit? Shouldn't that be the rule Power of the Machine Spirit? :) )takes care of the Avenger, and the turrets are independent anyway...

Can only fire two Hellstrikes, as per flyer missile rules, but could still fire everything else. As for Machine Spirit, I think we can safely assume that's Power of the Machine Spirit.

[Defenestratus]

I kinda just hate it. I'm sick of Space Marines getting so many flyers. I want to see some more Eldar, Tau, Ork, or IG flyers.

To be fair, there are plenty of fliers for Eldar and IG.
Orks probably could use more, and tau definitely.

[Tyrendian]

Eldar have two from FW - which are both pretty decent imho, if a little expensive in case of the Phoenix - and their own two. Good number, I aggree.
Tau have two from FW as well - Barracuda (which is ridiculously good) and Remora (ok make that one and a half... still not bad), plus their own two - just half a flier less than Eldar...
Orks have four in total - three from GW one from FW. So same as Eldar.
IG have easily the largest amount of fliers, so I really don't see why you would complain...
Marines now get their fifth flier (or five and a half if you count that bad excuse for a Land Speeder Tempest...).

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

I know i will be picking up one when the fund's are present its currently either getting a shiny new flier or a unit of terminators cataphract with special weapons and axes to convert into praetorian guard for my chapter master that and depending on what other monies i get this week possibly quad guns or heavy motars ;) its my birthday this week so presents and monies galore lol.

So yup but in the grand scheme of things i still want to get a storm eagle i just also want to get the raptor now as well who doesnt want a dedicated gunship ;)

[Tyrendian]

I know i will be picking up one when the fund's are present its currently either getting a shiny new flier or a unit of terminators cataphract with special weapons and axes to convert into praetorian guard for my chapter master that and depending on what other monies i get this week possibly quad guns or heavy motars ;) its my birthday this week so presents and monies galore lol.

So yup but in the grand scheme of things i still want to get a storm eagle i just also want to get the raptor now as well who doesnt want a dedicated gunship ;)

yeah I'll get one too I think... bday is not far away for me either, and then it's almost christmas again anyways... :D
I've got my Storm Eagle already and absolutely love it, both model wise and ingame - and at least in the looks department the Fire Raptor beats the SE for me with its sleeker, more predatorial look! So I'll get one for my Iron Snakes, just so they won't have to envy my Wolves and their precious Storm Eagle as much anymore :)

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

For me what isn't there to like? you get a dedicated strike fighter/ interceptor. sorry it doesn't get to transport bodies but it instead gets more weapon... so your telling me that i can use the avenger to shoot fliers while the heavy bolters shred infantry... yes please i will gladly take one. It's like my vulture with 4 rocket pods and a heavy bolter. its not meant to kill tanks or other fighters its meant to drop a ton of templates onto enemy units and to force them to die via massive dice rolls. Some times i think we need to look at what a unit can do and stop complaining about what it cannot do.

[Houghten]

Eldar have two from FW - which are both pretty decent imho, if a little expensive in case of the Phoenix - and their own two. Good number, I aggree.
Tau have two from FW as well - Barracuda (which is ridiculously good) and Remora (ok make that one and a half... still not bad), plus their own two - just half a flier less than Eldar...
Orks have four in total - three from GW one from FW. So same as Eldar.
IG have easily the largest amount of fliers, so I really don't see why you would complain...
Marines now get their fifth flier (or five and a half if you count that bad excuse for a Land Speeder Tempest...).

Are you seriously counting multi-part plastic kits as more than one?

[biffster666]

Are you seriously counting multi-part plastic kits as more than one?

He made no reference to multi-part plastic kits, he's talking about the # of flyers a given army has.

[Defenestratus]

If you think that the Phoenix is "a bit expensive" then perhaps you haven't used it against an IG, Ork or Nid (even Tau) list. Its killed 30+ guardsmen in a single shooting phase on several occasions. Its nightwhatever missiles are sick.

[Houghten]

He made no reference to multi-part plastic kits, he's talking about the # of flyers a given army has.

Counting the Bommer as three fliers is the only way to make his maths work.

And that's terrible.

[Xarga]

Counting the Bommer as three fliers is the only way to make his maths work.

And that's terrible.

But it actually is three flyers? Yes it's one box, yes each flyer looks simmilar and only slightly different. But they are different unit entries and have different applications. It's not like you would say the Hammerhead and Skyray count as one tank for tau would you?

Yes space marines are getting a lot of love from forgeworld but what do you expect with it being Horus Heresy and space marines being the largest demographic of 40k players? If anyone needs some love from forgeworld it's Dark Eldar (Nid's are a close second.) Discounting sisters of course as they need more love from GW first.

As for the Fireraptor itself. Loving it, always loved gunship style aircraft and all that dakka just seems like hella fun to me. :)

[DWest]

Counting the Bommer as three fliers is the only way to make his maths work.

And that's terrible.

Well, if we're counting the three Bommer variants as only one because they use one common body, then the Stormraven, Storm Eagle, and Fire Raptor all count as only one model, as all three use the Stormraven hull and wings.

[jksigler]

Tyrendian may have been including the nephilim/dark talon of the dark angels in his total...

[Houghten]

Yes it's one box, yes each flyer looks simmilar and only slightly different. But they are different unit entries and have different applications.

There's no reason for them to be separate unit entries. Same applies to the Dark Talon / Nephilim, the Sun Shark / Razor Shark and the Valkyrie / Vendetta - notice that the last example isn't actually a multi-kit, but the unit entries fit the horrible pattern. Each is one identical chassis with arbitrarily restricted hardpoint options.

This isn't like saying the Stormraven and it's extended-hull cousin the Storm Eagle are different models. This is like saying a Stormraven with assault cannon, heavy bolters and hurricane bolters is a different model from a Stormraven with multi-melta and lascannon.

Sad thing is, I think if GW were writing the first unit entry for the Stormraven today, they'd do exactly that.


It's not like you would say the Hammerhead and Skyray count as one tank for tau would you?

Uh, yeah.


Well, if we're counting the three Bommer variants as only one because they use one common body, then the Stormraven, Storm Eagle, and Fire Raptor all count as only one model, as all three use the Stormraven hull and wings.

I do count the Storm Eagle and Fire Raptor as one model, but the Stormraven is much smaller because the others have the hull extensions.

[jksigler]

And rhinos, razorbacks, vindicators, predators, whirlwinds, hunters, and stalkers must all be the same too then...

[Houghten]

You say that as if you only just noticed.

[kire]

The problem is that you are trying to use a subjective scale of what is different enough to be its own thing and what is just different guns. people will ***** no mater how you slice it so dividing by unit entry seams like the only rational objective measure.

[hisdudeness]

Yea, making up your own scale to prove a point just doesn't work too well.

[Houghten]

The problem is that you are trying to use a subjective scale of what is different enough to be its own thing and what is just different guns.
Yea, making up your own scale to prove a point just doesn't work too well.
It's one very simple rule: is the hull different? I didn't exactly pull that out of thin air.

The Vulture's different from the Valkyrie, and the Stormeagle's different from the Stormraven, but the Achilles and the Crusader are the same old Land Raider.

The Stormtalon and Dark Talon are a weird borderline case.


people will ***** no mater how you slice it

If by that you mean "Space Marines are going to come out on top no matter what scale you use," then yes.


so dividing by unit entry seams like the only rational objective measure.

I really don't see how that follows on from the first part of the sentence at all.