Classic Imperial Fists 1500

[Terminator]

Trying to squeeze Lysander into a 1500 list that really takes advantage of the IF chapter tactics. How does this compete?

Lysander 230
5 Terminators - Hammers/Shields 225
Land Raider Redeemer - Extra Armor 250
10 Tactical Marines - Flamer - Rhino 180
10 Tactical Marines - Flamer - Rhino 180
10 Devastators - 4x Lascannons 220
Thunderfire Cannon 100
Aegis Defense Line - Quad Gun 100

Total: 1485

[Anggul]

Half of the list seems decent. The other half is Lysander and Terminators in a Land Raider Redeemer. You really don't want to be spending half of your entire points total on one unit, and certainly not a Redeemer when your only current sources of anti-vehicle/MC are four Lascannons and a Quad Gun.

I just can't see Terminators in Land Raiders (barring Deathwing and Grey Knights where they're troops) until higher points, right now you need more troops to take objectives, and more Tactical Marines means more Bolter Drill being used. The same points in Tactical Marines is going to do a lot more damage with a lot more flexibility and mission-winning ability than that Redeemer full of Terminators.

[Katharon]

1) I'm going to agree with Anggul here on the Land Raider issue: for a points game this small, that is a big investment.

2) Never put extra marines in a Devastator Squad...not unless it's for a fluff reason. Those are points better spent elsewhere - unless your idea is to cut your Dev squad into two combat squads; that isn't necessarily a bad strategy, but it does make it easier to target and destroy both parts of the squad in detail.

3) Troops are what you should really be focusing on in games at and under 1,500 points. Otherwise smart players will simply focus on killing your troops choices and leave you hanging in the wind for objective games. In fact, taking just about any named character in such a low point game would, by some people's measure, equate to power-gaming.

4) Thunderfire Cannons aren't really all they're made out to be...I've never gotten my points returned on their investment.


5) Take a different HQ. A nice Librarian or Captain will suffice. Thanks to Chapter Tactics, you no longer require Lyzander to be in a list to benefit from Bolter Drill.

Something like:

Librarian - Epistolary + Terminator/Stormshield 120
5-man Scout Squad - 4 x Sniper Rifles, 1 x Heavy Bolter +Camo Cloaks + Teleport Homer 87
10-man Tactical Squad - Rhino + Heavy Bolter + Melta Bombs + Veteran Sgt. 200
10-man Tactical Squad - Rhino + Heavy Bolter + Melta Bombs + Veteran Sgt. 200
10-man Tactical Squad - Rhino + Heavy Bolter + Melta Bombs + Veteran Sgt. 200
10-man Tactical Squad - Rhino + Heavy Bolter + Melta Bombs + Veteran Sgt. 200
Terminator Squad - Assault Cannon 220
Devastator Squad - 2 x Lascannon + 2 x ML and Flakk Missiles 160
Aegis Defense Line - Quad Gun 100

Total Points: 1,487

[Chexmix282]

I would take 2 units of 5 Devastators each with 4 Missile Launchers instead of the single unit of 10 with 4 Lascannons. You get twice the shots this way, and Missile Launchers are far more versatile.

I like Land Raiders in 1,500.... But I run two of them, lol. Lysander may be overkill but the list looks like good fun to play.

[Learn2Eel]

Trying to squeeze Lysander into a 1500 list that really takes advantage of the IF chapter tactics. How does this compete?

Lysander 230
5 Terminators - Hammers/Shields 225
Land Raider Redeemer - Extra Armor 250
10 Tactical Marines - Flamer - Rhino 180
10 Tactical Marines - Flamer - Rhino 180
10 Devastators - 4x Lascannons 220
Thunderfire Cannon 100
Aegis Defense Line - Quad Gun 100

Total: 1485

1500 is probably too small for a Lysander death star, particularly with Terminators and a Land Raider - on that note, always take a Land Raider Crusader for an assault unit! Split your ten Devastators into two squads of 7 with four lascannons in each. Seven is generally the best number for ablative wounds and cost. Contrary to what others in this thread have said, running five man Devastator units really doesn't work as you lose your expensive heavy weapons far too quickly. I would add in a third Tactical Squad in a Rhino if you can. I would also switch all Tactical loadouts to plasma gun and combi-plasma on the Sergeant, however this isn't necessary. Ultimately there is no real "right" way to run Tacticals; it mostly comes down to preference. The HQ is really up to you. A Master of the Forge is the best of the support characters IMO, he adds a lot to your army and you don't need to spend any points on him. Thunderfire Cannons are awesome for the points cost, I would keep it.

This is probably what I would look to;

HQ
Master of the Forge - 90

Troops
Tactical Squad (10) w/ combi plasma, plasma gun, rhino - 200
Tactical Squad (10) w/ combi plasma, plasma gun, rhino - 200
Tactical Squad (10) w/ combi plasma, plasma gun, rhino - 200

Heavy Support
Devastators (7) w/ four lascannons - 178
Devastators (7) w/ four lascannons - 178
Thunderfire Cannon - 100

Fortifications
Aegis Defence Line w/ quad gun - 100

Still 254 points to spend on whatever you like! I'm personally a fan of a pair of Stormtalons with Skyhammer Missiles for those points to really round out your army list, though you might find more luck with Sternguard in a Drop Pod. As far as the Tacticals go, I think they work best (with Plasma) with what else you have. You still get that Bolter Drill goodness, but your squad can also deal with light vehicles and MCs in a pinch, keeping them versatile. You have the Thunderfire Cannon for popping cover-hugging light Infantry. You have tank-hunting lascannons for AV12+ vehicles. The quad gun and a pair of Stormtalons (optional) give you a lot of anti-air.

[Learn2Eel]

I would take 2 units of 5 Devastators each with 4 Missile Launchers instead of the single unit of 10 with 4 Lascannons. You get twice the shots this way, and Missile Launchers are far more versatile.

I like Land Raiders in 1,500.... But I run two of them, lol. Lysander may be overkill but the list looks like good fun to play.

Missile Launchers really aren't that good. Small blast templates are lucky to hit more than two models if your opponent uses proper placement, and the S8 AP3 shots are comprehensively outclassed by the S9 AP2 offered by lascannons. For Imperial Fists in particular, who already get Bolter Drill, the extra anti-tank fire is very welcome. Tank Hunters means that your Devastators should always, always have lascannons.

[Learn2Eel]

1) I'm going to agree with Anggul here on the Land Raider issue: for a points game this small, that is a big investment.

2) Never put extra marines in a Devastator Squad...not unless it's for a fluff reason. Those are points better spent elsewhere - unless your idea is to cut your Dev squad into two combat squads; that isn't necessarily a bad strategy, but it does make it easier to target and destroy both parts of the squad in detail.

3) Troops are what you should really be focusing on in games at and under 1,500 points. Otherwise smart players will simply focus on killing your troops choices and leave you hanging in the wind for objective games. In fact, taking just about any named character in such a low point game would, by some people's measure, equate to power-gaming.

4) Thunderfire Cannons aren't really all they're made out to be...I've never gotten my points returned on their investment.


5) Take a different HQ. A nice Librarian or Captain will suffice. Thanks to Chapter Tactics, you no longer require Lyzander to be in a list to benefit from Bolter Drill.

Something like:

Librarian - Epistolary + Terminator/Stormshield 120
5-man Scout Squad - 4 x Sniper Rifles, 1 x Heavy Bolter +Camo Cloaks + Teleport Homer 87
10-man Tactical Squad - Rhino + Heavy Bolter + Melta Bombs + Veteran Sgt. 200
10-man Tactical Squad - Rhino + Heavy Bolter + Melta Bombs + Veteran Sgt. 200
10-man Tactical Squad - Rhino + Heavy Bolter + Melta Bombs + Veteran Sgt. 200
10-man Tactical Squad - Rhino + Heavy Bolter + Melta Bombs + Veteran Sgt. 200
Terminator Squad - Assault Cannon 220
Devastator Squad - 2 x Lascannon + 2 x ML and Flakk Missiles 160
Aegis Defense Line - Quad Gun 100

Total Points: 1,487

Actually, extra Marines in Devastator Squads are almost a must-have. 5 Marines die too easily, 7 though? Three ablative wounds for your heavy weapons, and it significantly lowers the points-per-model you lose when a model dies. It is too easy for one Wave Serpent to laugh at your 48" range and snipe off three or four Marines in one go. Hell, shooting from anything will drop those 5 Marines really quickly.

Named characters in lower point games equivalent to power gaming? What? I don't get it. So when I take the century-costing Aun Va in a Tau list, I'm being a power gamer?

You may not have great experience with them, but Thunderfire Cannons are amongst the most cost effective units in the codex. You get a Bolster Defences, a gunner who gives you a power fist attack or two, Artillery profile and all the goods that T7 entails, as well as added Barrage. They are awesome for the points. Compare them to missile launcher Devastators, who also shoot four small blasts. There's just no comparison.

That's too many Troops for 1500, especially for non-Ultramarines Space Marines. Thirty is really what you want at 1500-1850.

[Luckee22]

Back to this list, I like your persistence Terminator.
I think there's an idea to expand on here. A landraider with six terminators inside is going to be incredibly difficult to table in one turn. So, just make the rest of the tacticals in drop pods. You'd be giving up the tank hunter ability, but it would focus you forces more on that wild hay maker punch.

Lysander
230
Chappy w/fist, digi-weapons
125
5x hammernators
225
Landraider cusader w/Multi-melta (my BT may be bleeding over into this idea)
260

Tactical w/vet, power weapon, melta, multi-melta, pod
220
Tacical w/vet, power weapon, flamer, Heavy bolter, pod
215
Tacical w/vet, combi-plas, plas, plas can, pod
225

Just a crazy-stupid death star that will over-kill anything and everything it contacts. It's so unnecessarily scary and so fun to run. Drop the pods around whatever you're gonna punch with the Land Raider. This list can get flanked really fast but it'll be so exciting to run. This isn't going to win any tournaments, but it'll be so much fun. And since you're dead set on the Lysander-star, I think this is the way to go.

[Terminator]

I love all the suggestions. Thanks for sharing your ideas. I agree such an expensive death star can be quite tricky and have switched to regular Terms st the moment. Many things to consider if I try to run them again.