Dual Raider SM & IG 2,000

[Chexmix282]

After taking a look at the new SM book, I think I have constructed an army that will keep me busy for now.


Primary Detachment - Codex Space Marines
Iron Hands Chapter Tactics

HQ
Chapter Master 235
-Terminator Armor, The Shield Eternal, Thunder Hammer

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad 220
-4 w/ Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield, 1 w/ Lightning Claws
Land Raider Crusader 260
-Multi-Melta

Terminator Assault Squad 220
-4 w/ Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield, 1 w/ Lightning Claws
Land Raider Crusader 260
-Multi-Melta

Troops
Tactical Squad 155
-Meltagun; Razorback w/ Lascannon & TL Plasmagun

Tactical Squad 85
-Missile Launcher

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad
-4 Missile Launchers 110

Devastator Squad
-4 Missile Launchers 110

1655

Allied Detachment - Imperial Guard

HQ
Company Command Squad 60
-2 Flamers

Troops
Veteran Squad 155
-3 Meltaguns, Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer

Fast Attack
Vendetta 130 (The Company Command Squad usually rides in here)

345

Roster Total: 2,000


I use Iron Hands chapter tactics for the Land Raiders and my Chapter Master. It Will Not Die is very good on models with 4 HP or 4 Wounds. These Chapter Tactics are the only reason why I am using a generic Chapter Master instead of Lysander. The 6+ Feel No Pain is just gravy! For those unfamiliar with the new SM codex relics and the IWND rule, this means my Chapter Master has 4 Wounds, 2+/3++/6+ FnP, Eternal Warrior, and every turn regains a lost wound on a 5+. My land raiders and Razorback also regain Hull Points every turn on a 5+.

The 5-Man Tac squad with a Missile Launcher sits on any home objective. The Razorback and Veterans in the Chimera provide mobile scoring and Melta.

The allies are used to 2 gaps in my army list - anti-air and Melta. They fill both gaps with a minimal expenditure of points.

This list is very different from any others that I've put together lately... Can dual raiders work well in 6th?

[DarkLink]

Drop the terminator armor on the CM and just take artificer armor. You'll be better in basically every way, but 5pts cheaper. Use that to grab an auspex.

[Chexmix282]

Drop the terminator armor on the CM and just take artificer armor. You'll be better in basically every way, but 5pts cheaper. Use that to grab an auspex.

I did consider that, but I'm using the Arjac Rockfist model as my Chapter Master and couldn't possibly consider using a model in power armor instead. Arjac is just too cool, lol. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, modelling is about the only reason to take an HQ with Terminator armor.

[Tynskel]

Yeah, modelling is about the only reason to take an HQ with Terminator armor.

I think these types of comments are not helpful.
If you are making a deep strike heavy terminator army, placing your commanders in Terminator Armor, and teleporting them in, can be quite useful.

[DarkLink]

Remember, I'm speaking from a competitive standpoint. Deepstriking Terminators means Deathwing, in which case the only Captain/CM you'll be taking is Belial. Otherwise, Terminator armor is nothing but a handicap. If you don't care about being 100% competitive, then you'll do what you want anyways. So really the only helpful advice I can give anyone is 'this is what is optimized'. That way they can consciously make that choice. Conversely, refusing to tell someone what you think they could do to improve their list gives them none of the feedback they might need to make an informed decision.

[Chexmix282]

Yeah, modelling is about the only reason to take an HQ with Terminator armor.

I really wish it weren't, but this is very true.

I don't lose much (besides 5 points) in this case, as the Chapter Master is going to be with a unit of Terminators anyway (so the Sweeping Advance restriction is not as hindering).

[DarkLink]

Yeah, though it does limit your ability to break off and assault a separate unit. As a GK player, I wish Draigo could sweeping advance, because I can't tell you how many times I've assaulted something, killed most of the unit, only to have the one or two remaining guys run, rally, and jump on an objective or force me to waste a whole 'nother round of shooting and assault just to finish them off.

[Tynskel]

Remember, I'm speaking from a competitive standpoint. Deepstriking Terminators means Deathwing, in which case the only Captain/CM you'll be taking is Belial. Otherwise, Terminator armor is nothing but a handicap. If you don't care about being 100% competitive, then you'll do what you want anyways. So really the only helpful advice I can give anyone is 'this is what is optimized'. That way they can consciously make that choice. Conversely, refusing to tell someone what you think they could do to improve their list gives them none of the feedback they might need to make an informed decision.

I completely disagree with this sentiment.
Not everyone in the competitive environment uses their characters in their troops squads. Sometimes teleporting in your commander with a terminator squad is the way to go. It is a reflection upon your list design.


Don't get me wrong. There are multiple land raiders in this list, and using artificer armor is probably the better way to go.

I just don't like blanket statements saying terminator armor is the wrong thing. That's not true.

[Chexmix282]

Looks like the local TO has changed things up for this month's tournament, and we are playing at 1,500 instead. Time to scale it down.

I still want to use SM & IG, and I also want to take a Land Raider full of termies. I have spent too much time converting and painting these guys to leave them on the shelf, lol.

Primary Detachment - Codex Space Marines
Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics

HQ
Captain Lysander 230

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad 225
-5 w/ Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
Land Raider Crusader 260
-Multi-Melta

Troops
Tactical Squad 145
-Razorback w/ Lascannon & TL Plasmagun

Tactical Squad 85
-Missile Launcher

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad
-4 Missile Launchers 110

Devastator Squad
-4 Missile Launchers 110

1655

Allied Detachment - Imperial Guard

HQ
Company Command Squad 50

Troops
Veteran Squad 155
-3 Meltaguns, Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer

Fast Attack
Vendetta 130 (The Company Command Squad rides in here)

335

Roster Total: 1,500


While adhering to my unnecessary thematic restrictions, is this list as good as it can be? Few people in my local meta run Land Raiders anymore, and I seriously doubt they will be expecting or properly prepared for one at 1,500 points. I may have too many "eggs in one basket", but it's a kickass basket that kills things and looks cool.

Any suggestions?

[Shotgun Justice]

I presume it's just a typo in your revised list where you say Iron Hands Chapter Tactics with Lysander.

The biggest issue I can see is a lack of scoring models. I have a firmly held belief that you need a minimum of 20 power armoured models or 30 mobile guard in a 1500 pt list. Your list suggests that the most you will be able to direct at an objective is 5 marines and the veterans. That can be easily countered and you may well struggle with The Emperors Will where either your objective defence or offense will be lacking.

[Chexmix282]

I presume it's just a typo in your revised list where you say Iron Hands Chapter Tactics with Lysander.

The biggest issue I can see is a lack of scoring models. I have a firmly held belief that you need a minimum of 20 power armoured models or 30 mobile guard in a 1500 pt list. Your list suggests that the most you will be able to direct at an objective is 5 marines and the veterans. That can be easily countered and you may well struggle with The Emperors Will where either your objective defence or offense will be lacking.

Yes, that was definitely a typo; I have corrected it.

That is a good point regarding my scoring models. It certainly is lower than I would like, but points are pretty tight as I am an idiot and want to bring a Land Raider. I don't have any extra Guard models, so if I were to add more scoring models it would have to be on the SM side. Should I change the Razorback squad to a 10-man Tactical squad? I'm not sure what to drop to pay for the Rhino though. I want to keep Lysander but perhaps he is too expensive for an army of this size.