Forgeworld 'Discount'

[Mrchilidog]

Several words of warning to anyone who decides to give these guys a try. After waiting over a month for my order to ship, I was told that they were very behind in shipping out product. I waited another 3 weeks and contacted them again. After no reply, I filed a complaint with PayPal. Two weeks later they respond and ship FINALLY ship the order. It shows up in a flimsy shoebox with no packing, three sandwich baggies of parts and many broken pieces. I went to assemble the Legion Rapier Destroyer and low and behold...they sent me two right hand chassis pieces.

I own many actual Forgeworld items and this was more of an experiment to see what I would get. I definitely learned my lesson. It may be a 'discount' price, but you get a full value of headaches with it.

[daboarder]

In other news....counterfeit products are poor quality with poor customer service

[Brakkart]

There is no such thing as discount Forgeworld. Forgeworld themselves have stated before that they do not sell to retail channels, thus the price you pay on the FW website is the price EVERYONE pays, almost without exception (the sole exception that I am aware of is GW staff). Anyone selling Forgeworld models for the same price or cheaper than Forgeworld themselves is not to be trusted as the parts are almost certainly re-cast or a scam or else the person/company selling them is taking a loss on every sale.

[ChacoStylez]

Never settle for less my friend, Forgeworld is usually worth it. Have you tried ebay for some desperate deals, I've been able to get Tau battlesuits for better prices from people getting out of the hobby.

[lobster-overlord]

Never settle for less my friend, Forgeworld is usually worth it. Have you tried ebay for some desperate deals, I've been able to get Tau battlesuits for better prices from people getting out of the hobby.


ditto. watch for bit lots and get tons cheap

[SaveModifier]

Yeah, i am also shocked that the buisiness that makes illegal copies of a product is not to be trusted.

FW is full of really really nice dudes, its a small team of really dedicated hobbyists, getting to chat with them at GDUK was a pleasure, they genuinely love thier jobs and it shows in the quality they produce, its not cheap but you get your monies worth. If you don't want to pay the price, don't buy the models, simple as that

[Wolfshade]

Of course you could always report the to trading standards if you believe them to be engaged in counterfitting...

[Kaptain Badrukk]

SIte's gone already, yet another dodgy re-caster flashes in the pan soon to be replaced with the same people and a new website.......

[jgebi]

I have found a few good re-casters and personaly I don't think playing and exorpedint price is worth it

[Katharon]

Hence why I often buy parts from Tamiya. If it looks like it could be used in 40K, then hey, it can be.

[Wolfshade]

I have found a few good re-casters and personaly I don't think playing and exorpedint price is worth it

Perhaps the price is so high because they don't sell enough units to be able to bring the price down...

[Kirsten]

I have found a few good re-casters and personaly I don't think playing and exorpedint price is worth it

then don't buy it. you should never use re-casters.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Now i don't, to be clear.
But to everyone who says "don't use re-casters 'cos you don't like the price" please raise your hands if you've NEVER downloaded something that you should have paid for (books, movies, TV whatever).
I know the victims of this are "bigger" and so therefore it's "ok" but 'stones and glass houses' people.

[SaveModifier]

I have found a few good re-casters and personaly I don't think playing and exorpedint price is worth it

Then don't buy Forge World stuff at all. You're not entitled to own it.

[SaveModifier]

Now i don't, to be clear.
But to everyone who says "don't use re-casters 'cos you don't like the price" please raise your hands if you've NEVER downloaded something that you should have paid for (books, movies, TV whatever).
I know the victims of this are "bigger" and so therefore it's "ok" but 'stones and glass houses' people.

they're quite discreete issues though mate, books movies and TV are things people download that they would never pay for, a lot of people will buy the movie or series when they can if they enjoed it, I myself don't steal stuff now, because its easier to buy it legally online, 10 years ago, it was almost impossible to buy digital music and videos, now its easier to buy than steal. People steal music becuase its so easily available for free, on the radio, TV is, well, on TV, and you might only watch it a handful of times, if ever more than once.

Recasting is taking an object someone has made, and buying it from someone else who has made a copy of it, for a small discount, just so we're clear, its often not more than 20%, this is not at all the same as a download of a film or a song. You are buying these things because you want to keep them, they're permanent, and i think most people who buy recasts, they want to use them in the game to gain an advantage,

[Kaptain Badrukk]

they're quite discreete issues though mate
You say that, but in the end you are taking something that someone else has made from someone else who has made an illegal copy of it.
Now the downloads may be free, but we'd be naive to think that those add banner just pay for hosting.
At the nub of this issue is you're choosing not to give the rightful owner money for something that they have created.
When 3D printers and scanners get good enough and there are people hosting scans of the minis you can print yourself for free at home will it be massively different?
Now again, I'm not justifying re-casters (and I don't and wouldn't buy from them), I'm just saying we shouldn't rip into someone for doing something we are essentially none of us innocent of replicating (myself included).

[daboarder]

To be fair badrukk, some of the opinion voiced here is sort of.....you bought from a re-caster and got less quality of product and service than you would have form FW.... what did the OP expect?

[Wolfshade]

They are the same issue as uncomfortable as that may make us.

This discussion has been had many a time but to quickly recap:
* 1 copy does not equate to 1 loss of sale
* Copies are cheaper/free as the do not need to fund the whole creation of a product, just copy the finished product
* Availability is the key issue. Time delayed releases in different territories seem to encourage this, not being able to legally obtain a copy also does so.

The 3D printer issue is a new one, I cannot imagine that they will be as cheap as an actual model from a shop, but this might not always be the case. Indeed, although most houses have printers very few people download and print their own books (perhaps this is a binding issue, bieng fiddly and all) but the rise of e-books being availble is high. Now this is a strange one and all about availability, we have the technology to print our own books, but generally speaking we don't. Also, we have the ability to get almost any book for free from the local library, and some are now even doing ebooks online. Though how this affects downloads I have no idea.
So in an economy when the majority of our objects can be made in the home fabricator what will the economy do to counter act this? Will people buy official limited use licences to fabricate 5 items or will the availability of the raw materials be controlled so that only sanctioned usage could be done. I have no idea. I think in reality we have about 15-20 years to wait before it becomes a significant issue.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

To be fair badrukk, some of the opinion voiced here is sort of.....you bought from a re-caster and got less quality of product and service than you would have form FW.... what did the OP expect?
Agree, my original comment was, as it said it was, addressed at people who said "don't like the price, just don't get it".
The 3d printing thing was more me leveling the point that once the thing you get is "free" you don't feel like someone is profiting from it, and using that as an analogy.
I agree that the distribution delay thing is annoying, and as I say I'm not judging because I admit I do it.
I may not buy from a re-caster, but I won't judge someone who does when I do the same thing with music etc.

[Deadlift]

I got caught out in a similar situation on eBay last year. Basically the sellers listing stated the Forgeworld parts he was selling were for a project no longer being done. So I paid for my dreadnought autocannons which after bidding ended up about at a 20 % discount. My items arrived and soon as I opened the package I knew they were recasts. The bag itself was a printed copy of the FW one and the cannons were in a white resin instead of the usual grey. Even better they were so badly miscast the barrel end didn't even match up. Contacted eBay, PayPal and Forgeworld. Got my refund within 24hrs and seller was investigated and eventually his account was closed. Cheeky sod even used pictures of the original instead of the copies.

I have also used so called reputable discount sellers of GW kits. Wayland and Total Wargamer. Both were a joke and after 3 weeks of no dispatch I got my money back from wayland. Total Wargamer, I facebooked them and basically told them after weeks of no communication or able to phone that I was jumping in the car and heading up to Evesham. Money refunded in 30 mins. Lesson learned I only buy direct now.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

I got caught out in a similar situation on eBay last year. Basically the sellers listing stated the Forgeworld parts he was selling were for a project no longer being done. So I paid for my dreadnought autocannons which after bidding ended up about at a 20 % discount. My items arrived and soon as I opened the package I knew they were recasts. The bag itself was a printed copy of the FW one and the cannons were in a white resin instead of the usual grey. Even better they were so badly miscast the barrel end didn't even match up. Contacted eBay, PayPal and Forgeworld. Got my refund within 24hrs and seller was investigated and eventually his account was closed. Cheeky sod even used pictures of the original instead of the copies.

That sucks, but I'm glad you got the douche.

[Psychosplodge]

Now i don't, to be clear.
But to everyone who says "don't use re-casters 'cos you don't like the price" please raise your hands if you've NEVER downloaded something that you should have paid for (books, movies, TV whatever).
I know the victims of this are "bigger" and so therefore it's "ok" but 'stones and glass houses' people.

*Raises hand*
The only thing I've downloaded is something that isn't available to purchase, so I ripped it from youtube, and if it was released as a dvd or bluray boxset I would happily go buy

Actually encouraging re-casters damages the hobby.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

*Raises hand*
The only thing I've downloaded is something that isn't available to purchase, so I ripped it from youtube, and if it was released as a dvd or bluray boxset I would happily go buy

Actually encouraging re-casters damages the hobby.

Splodge you're an inspiration to the children. I'll go get you a pile of stones, for your house is made of iron :)
As I said, I wouldn't and don't use them myself. But I cannot abide hypocrisy. Or crispy hippos.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Curiosity led me to ebay, to see this for myself. It's surprising how many people in the russian federation have decided they don't want their untouched contemptor dreadnoughts...........
I'm guessing we can't report without buying though...

[Psychosplodge]

Splodge you're an inspiration to the children. I'll go get you a pile of stones, for your house is made of iron :)
As I said, I wouldn't and don't use them myself. But I cannot abide hypocrisy. Or crispy hippos.

lol.
Plus who knows what you're getting off a torrent site.

[Kirsten]

I got caught out in a similar situation on eBay last year. Basically the sellers listing stated the Forgeworld parts he was selling were for a project no longer being done. So I paid for my dreadnought autocannons which after bidding ended up about at a 20 % discount. My items arrived and soon as I opened the package I knew they were recasts. The bag itself was a printed copy of the FW one and the cannons were in a white resin instead of the usual grey. Even better they were so badly miscast the barrel end didn't even match up. Contacted eBay, PayPal and Forgeworld. Got my refund within 24hrs and seller was investigated and eventually his account was closed. Cheeky sod even used pictures of the original instead of the copies.

I have also used so called reputable discount sellers of GW kits. Wayland and Total Wargamer. Both were a joke and after 3 weeks of no dispatch I got my money back from wayland. Total Wargamer, I facebooked them and basically told them after weeks of no communication or able to phone that I was jumping in the car and heading up to Evesham. Money refunded in 30 mins. Lesson learned I only buy direct now.

they can be very hit and miss. I don't use them any more, my stuff has always arrived, but it takes ages. I stopped using a bits seller this year, Bits and Kits, because an order (for the princely sum of £6) never arrived, and the seller has completely refused all forms of communications, email, facebook, his own support contact thing, the works. What makes me even more angry is that I still get his newsletter each week regardless of the number of times I have removed myself from his mailing list.


Actually encouraging re-casters damages the hobby.

yup, harmful to everyone.


Curiosity led me to ebay, to see this for myself. It's surprising how many people in the russian federation have decided they don't want their untouched contemptor dreadnoughts...........
I'm guessing we can't report without buying though...

I have reported a russian seller before, if they are selling complete forge world kits at a discount, it is a scam. I sent Forge World the link.

[Arkhan Land]

Ive spent many years casting things (not 40k but usually stuff related to whoever im sleeping with's art projects (live by an art college)) and I can tell you for certain that while you may have some gripes with the cost of forge-world stuff I think some of you don't appreciate how hard it is to make good quality molds and casts on a professional level which is why you should never be surprised by someone making an inferior product.
Getting your mixes right, temperature perfect and having the tenacity to fix EVERY air bubble, it requires artisan-ship of a high caliber, in addition to near-laboratory perfect working area as much as I gripe about issues of their profiteering I personally think they just get to enjoy it cause theyre the only ones nerdy enough to try to make a science fiction fantasy artisan studio AND succeed, same kudos goes to Mikey D and Timmy D for doing it with Armorcast/Epicast

[SaveModifier]

I have also used so called reputable discount sellers of GW kits. Wayland and Total Wargamer. Both were a joke and after 3 weeks of no dispatch I got my money back from wayland. Total Wargamer, I facebooked them and basically told them after weeks of no communication or able to phone that I was jumping in the car and heading up to Evesham. Money refunded in 30 mins. Lesson learned I only buy direct now.


Wayland games is great if you think that you might want to paint some models in about 6 months time.

[DWest]

Now here's a slightly sticky question: Codices. Specifically, I own a real copy of the Codex for every army I actually play, but I have also downloaded rips of the ones I don't currently play, so I can familiarize myself with their rules. I also have downloaded copies of a couple of the ones I own, just so I can open it up on my computer screen so I don't have to juggle book and notebook when toying around with list ideas. On one hand, I write for a living, so I understand that a ripped copy is money not paid to the authors, but on the other hand, I don't like the idea of paying $50 a player just to keep my opponents honest.

[Mr Mystery]

Now here's a slightly sticky question: Codices. Specifically, I own a real copy of the Codex for every army I actually play, but I have also downloaded rips of the ones I don't currently play, so I can familiarize myself with their rules. I also have downloaded copies of a couple of the ones I own, just so I can open it up on my computer screen so I don't have to juggle book and notebook when toying around with list ideas. On one hand, I write for a living, so I understand that a ripped copy is money not paid to the authors, but on the other hand, I don't like the idea of paying $50 a player just to keep my opponents honest.

I too am a completist. I too have one of each Codex (except Blood Angels. Must grab that soon).

Yet I paid for them. So same question I pose to others who download copies (not intended to be personal).... What makes you so special you feel entitled to a free copy?

[SaveModifier]

Now here's a slightly sticky question: Codices. Specifically, I own a real copy of the Codex for every army I actually play, but I have also downloaded rips of the ones I don't currently play, so I can familiarize myself with their rules. I also have downloaded copies of a couple of the ones I own, just so I can open it up on my computer screen so I don't have to juggle book and notebook when toying around with list ideas. On one hand, I write for a living, so I understand that a ripped copy is money not paid to the authors, but on the other hand, I don't like the idea of paying $50 a player just to keep my opponents honest.

There is no way to justify ripping the codex, if you don't trust your opponent, play better opponents or ask to see their copy! A rip of one you own for convinences sake is more acceptable morally, but probably not legally, now that they sell digital versions

[DarkLink]

If you've got an ipad. Which I probably never will. Nor am I regularly referencing other codices midgame only.

[Mr Mystery]

They're on other platforms now.

Regardless, you wants it, you pays for it. Just like everything else in life....

[DWest]

if you don't trust your opponent, play better opponents or ask to see their copy!

It has been my experience that people who are inclined to cheat aren't going to politely hand over their book mid-game so you can double-check them, and unfortunately they don't tend to wear a backpack banner saying "I'm a cheating scumbag" to tell you what you're getting into beforehand (although I might be inclined to give them props just for being that honest if they did). A better workaround would be playing against a good person who plays that army and learn the rules through them. Unfortunately, my local player pool isn't big enough for that to work well.

What would be nice is if GW would post the rules summary that appears on the foldout pages in the back of the new Codexes somewhere for free viewing. That way you could get an idea of what each army does, but it doesn't detract from the actual value of the book itself.

[Mr Mystery]

Why should they give something for nothing?

The rules are available. For a price.

And you have a hard job moralising about cheating in a game by admitting to theft to avoid it.

[DarkLink]

They're on other platforms now.

News to me.

Edit: looked on gw, and still pretty sure it's apple only. So if by other platforms you mean iphones, that doesn't help me at all.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Go to Black Library, check out "Digital Editions", and you'll find the versions for Android, Kindle and so on. The first ones were Codex: Eldar and Iyanden, the 40k Rules book is there, as is Space Marines, Damnos...

They aren't all available yet, but they're working on it.

Didn't you find this on the GW page? At the bottom of their Digital Editions button on the frontpage are two buttons, the one on the right is marked clearly "iBooks Store", the one on the left is "Android, Kindle, eBooks".

[SaveModifier]

News to me.

Edit: looked on gw, and still pretty sure it's apple only. So if by other platforms you mean iphones, that doesn't help me at all.

available as ePub files now, so, works on kindle, iPad, android apps, PCs, everything. So yeah, buy them, cheaper than the ipad editions too, don't have all the fancy linking and spinning models and coolness though.

[SaveModifier]

It has been my experience that people who are inclined to cheat aren't going to politely hand over their book mid-game so you can double-check them, and unfortunately they don't tend to wear a backpack banner saying "I'm a cheating scumbag" to tell you what you're getting into beforehand (although I might be inclined to give them props just for being that honest if they did). A better workaround would be playing against a good person who plays that army and learn the rules through them. Unfortunately, my local player pool isn't big enough for that to work well.

What would be nice is if GW would post the rules summary that appears on the foldout pages in the back of the new Codexes somewhere for free viewing. That way you could get an idea of what each army does, but it doesn't detract from the actual value of the book itself.

If your opponent does something and, when you ask to check the codex to see how it works and he refuses, why wouldn't you just pack up your models and tell him that he's won, why bother playing against such a dick? If everyone does that, he'll soon change his ways.

[Pssyche]

available as ePub files now, so, works on kindle, iPad, android apps, PCs, everything. So yeah, buy them, cheaper than the ipad editions too, don't have all the fancy linking and spinning models and coolness though.

I've got legitimate copies of both the Codex Eldar Book and the ePub version.
Hand on heart, I can not recommend the digital version.
I just bought a new Nexus 7, with a mind to collect all of the Digital Codices for reference on to it and started off with my own Army's Codex.
I won't be buying any more, though. I think it's dreadful.

As for Forge World models, my suggestion is to get your hands in your pockets and stop being cheapskates.
I've got pretty much all of the Eldar models, with doubles and triples of some of them.
And I don't regret one penny I've spent on any of them.

[DWest]

If your opponent does something and, when you ask to check the codex to see how it works and he refuses, why wouldn't you just pack up your models and tell him that he's won, why bother playing against such a dick? If everyone does that, he'll soon change his ways.

Last time it happened was in a local tourney situation. Guy in question tried to counter-argue that I was trying to slow-play. Without being able to quote the rule to the TO, that devolves into a "my word vs. his" situation. I should have the stronger argument, but the only reason the TO sided with me is somebody else got caught cheating earlier in the day. And before you say "find a better place to play", nearest other game store where 40k players regularly show is an hour and a half away. I'll have the cash to finish off my Codex collection well before I'll have gas money to travel to the other place regularly. Again, I'm not saying I'm on the right for pirating the books, just giving an example of how I've gotten stuck playing a less-than-honest person without an easy recourse.

[Aventine]

They're on other platforms now.

Regardless, you wants it, you pays for it. Just like everything else in life....

There are plenty of free things in life; some of the most enjoyable things, in fact.

Is someone with a photographic memory entitled to all the rules without buying them? Thumb through a friends copy, never have to reference it again.
Anyone can read and store anything in their head and it isn't theft, right? I haven't stolen that copy of "Tropic of Cancer" that I returned to my local library, just because I can remember key parts of it, right? But if I use some 1's and 0's as an auxiliary, that is theft? Maybe by a classic definition. But that definition is changing.

[daboarder]

I don't pay for digital editions....but thats because I've bought the physical codex, and I'll scan it myself. That being said if I don't want to damage my book in a scanner (say its one of my LE ones) I will find an online PDF.

[Mr Mystery]

There are plenty of free things in life; some of the most enjoyable things, in fact.

Is someone with a photographic memory entitled to all the rules without buying them? Thumb through a friends copy, never have to reference it again.
Anyone can read and store anything in their head and it isn't theft, right? I haven't stolen that copy of "Tropic of Cancer" that I returned to my local library, just because I can remember key parts of it, right? But if I use some 1's and 0's as an auxiliary, that is theft? Maybe by a classic definition. But that definition is changing.

Everything had a price. Girlfriends? They cost. Walk in the park? Thank your taxes for its existence. So on and so forth.

And how many people have eidetic memory?

But since your clutching, the straws are little more to the left.

[Pssyche]

Is someone with a photographic memory entitled to all the rules without buying them? Thumb through a friends copy, never have to reference it again.
Anyone can read and store anything in their head and it isn't theft, right?

Oh, you're so clever!
I am so envious of your eidetic memory, it is truly a wondrous thing...
Now, before we go any further, could you just show me that rule again so I can see it for myself?

[SaveModifier]

There are plenty of free things in life; some of the most enjoyable things, in fact.

Is someone with a photographic memory entitled to all the rules without buying them? Thumb through a friends copy, never have to reference it again.
Anyone can read and store anything in their head and it isn't theft, right? I haven't stolen that copy of "Tropic of Cancer" that I returned to my local library, just because I can remember key parts of it, right? But if I use some 1's and 0's as an auxiliary, that is theft? Maybe by a classic definition. But that definition is changing.

If you read that before you hit Post and thought "this makes me sound so cool and smart", well, I have some news for you buddy.

[Lord-Boofhead]

The is a massive difference between pirating something for your own use and stealing someone else's IP to sell it on...

[Renegade]

Am I the only one not to have had problems with buying legit discount 40K stuff online? I can recommend an Australian company if need be.

With Forgeworld, the stuff they make is not that overpriced and is well worth it IMO.

As for ripping codices... least said soonest mended.

[Mr Mystery]

The is a massive difference between pirating something for your own use and stealing someone else's IP to sell it on...

Except you're depriving whoever created the item of their rightful due.

[Aventine]

Except you're depriving whoever created the item of their rightful due.

The company, but not the individual. Phil Kelley still gets his salary whether I rip the Eldar book or buy it. Same with all the artists. Same with the guys who handle the paper pulp.
Is there any reason to treat a company morally?

[Aventine]

If you read that before you hit Post and thought "this makes me sound so cool and smart", well, I have some news for you buddy.


eh, just waxing... you have something relevant to add?