Tactics to beat the 4 riptide list

[Stone Edwards]

So it seems like this is one of the latest crazy rule breaking lists to beat and I didn't see something similar discussing it. Guessing after NOVA this will probably be popping up everywhere so figuring out hard counters would probably be a good idea.

I'm an Eldar myself and really serpent spam is one of the only ideas I can come up with and even that doesn't seem all that great. Either main riptide weapon seems like it would take care of wave serpents fairly easily, especially if it's coming from a unit with an attached commander (re-roll hits, tank hunter, ignores cover). Even if they survive our normal WS config (TL-SC) would need quite a few hits to take out just one riptide. I suppose 4-5 WSs focusing on one could reliably take one out each turn but that would probably leave them all without a shield next turn and easy targets.

Everything else that I can think is either melee or has a short range, both of which are far from ideal since you'll probably get destroyed long before you make it close enough. Wraithknights with wraith cannons are probably the best choice but are expensive and you're either using tons of points or relying on roll 6s to wound.

That's all I've got so far and I'm hopefully missing something that will help. Obviously taking Tau allies would help but I'm trying to avoid that. Anyways what have others come up with for their respective armies?

Edit: oops forgot to give a sample list. Here is one very similar to the one that almost won Nova:

The List to Beat

Hq Farsight
O’vesa
3 crisis suits, bonding knifex3, missile podx3
10 kroot w hound
1 crisis suit, flamer, bonding knife
1 crisis suit, missile pod, bonding knife
1 crisis suit, missile pod, bonding knife
1 crisis suit, missile pod, bonding knife
Riptide, ion accelerator, twin linked smart missile system, early warning override
Riptide, ion accelerator, twin linked smart missile system, early warning override, positional relay
Riptide, heavy burst cannon, twin linked smart missile system, velocity tracker, target lock, 2 shielded missile drones, talisman of arthas moloch
Skyray, smart missile system, blacksun filter
Allied detachment (codex tau)
Commander, command and control node, multispectrum sensor suite, iridium armor, puretide chip, onager gauntlet, vectored retrothrusters, neuroweb system jammer
10 kroot w hound

O'vesa is the IC riptide from the farsight enclaves supplement

[Bigred]

Stone, can you post up a specific Tau list to your OP and let the community take off its gloves and get to work.

-L

[Stone Edwards]

Stone, can you post up a specific Tau list to your OP and let the community take off its gloves and get to work.

-L

Sorry about that totally forgot! Edited in.

[DarkLink]

For one, utilize lots of LOS blocking terrain. Frontline Gaming just wrote an article on that at duelcon.

And is this Eldar specific (Daemons murder Tau)? Wraithknights would work pretty well. Forgeworld Hornets with Pulse Lasers, too. But eldar don't really do long range high ap spam. You can just go wwith weight of fire. Some War Walkers and Serpents would work.

[Stone Edwards]

For one, utilize lots of LOS blocking terrain. Frontline Gaming just wrote an article on that at duelcon.

And is this Eldar specific (Daemons murder Tau)? Wraithknights would work pretty well. Forgeworld Hornets with Pulse Lasers, too. But eldar don't really do long range high ap spam. You can just go wwith weight of fire. Some War Walkers and Serpents would work.

Nah my post was Eldar specific but that's because that's my main army. Interested in any army really.

[Maelstorm]

Psyker Power: Fear of the Darkness (-2 Leadership). Make them run away without firing a shot.

Blood Angles can have 5 psykers in an 1,850 list: 2x HQ Librarians (in drop pods), 3x Elite Librarian Dreadnoughts (AV13). As a bonus, the 3 Libby Dreadnoughts can insta-death anything with a Toughness value using their Libby Force weapon. Add Wings of Sanguinious (12" Jump Pack) to the Libby Dreads to get them across the board quickly. Librarian Dreadnoughts with Wings also get Hammer of Wrath attacks (per the BA FAQ).

Riptides, Crisis suits, etc. all run off the table quickly or get cornered and insta-killed.

Include 3 Drop pods in your list to get the first 2 Librarians in position on turn 1.

[Sly]

First of all, the Tau list is very low in firepower. It gets around that, a bit, by having the firepower that it does have, on very resilient platforms (Riptides, a Riptide/Crisis unit, Skyray). But the usual strength of a Tau list, that it blows you off the map in two turns if you don't counter with a lot of damage early, is just not there. It is vulnerable to an army that can close fast and beat it at short range. Granted, that can merely mean that it's vulnerable to Daemons or Drop Pods while beating up on Eldar.

For Eldar, I think that shuriken weapons are the way to go. The list doesn't have the weight of anti-infantry firepower to down lots of infantry fast, so if you can bring a lot of bodies close you should be able to start dumping pseudo-rending firepower into them. If you control the center of the board, there isn't enough room on the board edges for them to avoid shooting, even if it will be hard to concentrate the infantry firepower on a single Riptide at a time.

Another option is to note that, other than O'vesa's squad, their entire Troops have only 30 wounds in total, and 4 Wave Serpents can probably splatter the Kroot squads in one turn. That leaves any S8 weapons to remove just 4 Crisis suits, and he's down to one tough scoring unit. At that point, it would be very hard for him to win on objectives.

[DarkLink]

Land Raiders are also pretty awesome against most Tau, not that it helps you much.

[Stone Edwards]

First of all, the Tau list is very low in firepower. It gets around that, a bit, by having the firepower that it does have, on very resilient platforms (Riptides, a Riptide/Crisis unit, Skyray). But the usual strength of a Tau list, that it blows you off the map in two turns if you don't counter with a lot of damage early, is just not there. It is vulnerable to an army that can close fast and beat it at short range. Granted, that can merely mean that it's vulnerable to Daemons or Drop Pods while beating up on Eldar.

For Eldar, I think that shuriken weapons are the way to go. The list doesn't have the weight of anti-infantry firepower to down lots of infantry fast, so if you can bring a lot of bodies close you should be able to start dumping pseudo-rending firepower into them. If you control the center of the board, there isn't enough room on the board edges for them to avoid shooting, even if it will be hard to concentrate the infantry firepower on a single Riptide at a time.

Another option is to note that, other than O'vesa's squad, their entire Troops have only 30 wounds in total, and 4 Wave Serpents can probably splatter the Kroot squads in one turn. That leaves any S8 weapons to remove just 4 Crisis suits, and he's down to one tough scoring unit. At that point, it would be very hard for him to win on objectives.

So a couple issues with all this. As I said don't want to focus just on eldar, but just a quick note on the wave serpents. A WS that fires its SC and gets 7 shots with the shield (unlikely) should on average do about 1.3 wounds to a riptide and less than 1 if it has FnP. Conversely the O'vesa unit (2 riptides 1 commander) should average 1.25 glances (half that many pens) with the ion accelerator or 2.75 glances with the burst cannon. So on average that unit should be able to kill one WS a turn without considering the other riptides where as if VERY lucky a list with 5 WS could kill one of the lone rip tides a turn.

The other points are applicable to other armies but still have issues. Deep-striking anything against this list is just suicidal, remember they most likely all have interceptor and they can all either put out 12 str 5 shots that re-roll or put out a str 8 (most likely 9 though) ap 2 large blast. On that note it also seems like quite a bit of anti-infantry fire to me, I think that would decimate most armies' infantry fairly quickly although horde armies would probably have a chance.

As far as the troops go I think the idea is to hold just about all of them in reserve which leaves just the riptides as the targets the first turn or 2. Please note that O'Vesa is in a unit with the commander and another riptide, not joining a unit of crisis suits.

Land raiders certainly are a good option though, and going along that line a chaos list with berserkers or something in a LR might be good since you could avoid over watch. Obviously Daemons are decent, flying circus I have heard works well and of course the screamerstar is great. The problem with psykers is that talisman though, 4d6 and take the highest for deny the witch. Not a guarantee of denying but decent chances.

Edit: Just to be clear my above math for the O'vesa unit is from the commander giving the 2 riptides twin-linked everything, tank hunter, and ignores cover.

[Sly]

Wave Serpents don't kill Riptides, Eldar kill Riptides.

If the Tau player is reserving his Troops, then pretty much all of the firepower that he has is used to kill Wave Serpents, but what will kill Dire Avengers who are shooting at the Riptides, then? The Riptide list will easily beat Wave Serpents in a stand-off fight, but they don't have the firepower to shoot both Serpents and Eldar infantry at the same time... and bringing in their own infantry to counter the Eldar infantry just gives the Wave Serpents targets that they can actually kill.

An Eldar list that can't put out AP2 shots is going to struggle with this, but given the Eldar shuriken weapons and Fire Dragons, the only reason that Eldar would struggle to kill 2+ save units is that they are staying at long range and shooting with nothing but Wave Serpents. That's a solid strategy against other Mechanized lists, but a Riptide list is both resilient against shooting, and lacks the CC threat to punish Eldar for going into assault range. A Riptide can't assault the Eldar troops if it doesn't shoot at them, and if it's shooting at them then the Wave Serpents stay safe.

TL:DR version... get into Rapid Fire range and feed the Riptides shurikens. 2 Wave Serpents with 10 DA in each will average 6 wounds on Riptides in one turn (assuming a 6" move). That's the way to handle 2+ armor units, not with long-range Serpent sniping.

As for suicidal deepstriking... the large blast is not a major issue because coming out of Drop Pods you get to spread out. Getting 3 models hit by a blast shot at BS3 with Gets Hot is not a major threat. Neither is 12 SMS shots if they go that way... 12 SMS shots kill what, 2 Marines? So where is the threat? Remember that when firing Interceptor they won't have Markerlights, and they can't use the commander's suite to twin-link the large blasts. So it's either 2 dead Marines from the SMS, or risk the BS3 Gets Hot pie plates that will probably kill 2-3 Marines each on an accurate hit.

[knas ser]

If no-one minds a newbie-ish question from someone who doesn't know Tau very well, how much of that list are scoring units? Because it looks quite heavy firepower orientated and I'm wondering how quickly you could slaughter their scoring units in an objective based game.

[Sly]

If no-one minds a newbie-ish question from someone who doesn't know Tau very well, how much of that list are scoring units? Because it looks quite heavy firepower orientated and I'm wondering how quickly you could slaughter their scoring units in an objective based game.

2 squads of Kroot... 22 wounds.
4 solo Crisis Suits... 8 wounds.

[Psychosplodge]

The 18 lascannon spacemarine list? Plus dreadnoughts in the elites slots.

[knas ser]

4 solo Crisis Suits... 8 wounds.

Huh. Nice to have independent, 2 wounds scoring units. My army doesn't!

[Stone Edwards]

2 squads of Kroot... 22 wounds.
4 solo Crisis Suits... 8 wounds.

You forgot the squad of 3 crisis suits so 6 more wounds

[Sly]

You forgot the squad of 3 crisis suits so 6 more wounds
Yup, my bad.

[Lord Krungharr]

I played against a 2 Riptide list with a big Crisis suit bomb and a Broadside/Drone unit; 1850 and I had Fateweaver, 20 Hounds w 4 Jugger Heralds, 10 Daemonettes, 3 Nurglings, then a CSM Tzeentch Prince with the Mace, 10 Cultists, and a Heldrake. The Hounds/Heralds got the bottom of 1 charge with 10 Hounds left. After that it was a slaughterfest. Macey Sweeping Advanced the Crisis unit, Dogstar Swept the Broadsides, then killed 1 Riptide in 2 rounds, then off to other which was dead I think in Turn 4. Drake took care of the Kroot in my zone mostly (Nurglings made them run away :), and then the Drake and Fatey Vectored and Flamed Firewarriors in his zone, whilst 2 of my Jugger Heralds cleansed his other Firewarriors.

So the Daemonic key to kill the Riptides is of course speed and a nice meatshield (and the Grimoire). The Axe of Khorne has come in very handy with Decapitating Blow, however, I find that most of the time Sweeping Advances get rid of Tau. I do prefer swarming the big guys if possible, but not always. Fateweaver is not always necessary, though certainly useful. But psychic powers in general do really well vs Tau (the Shriek comes to mind too).

Outflanking Seekers might be a good way to go. They can come in spread out too. Pinch the gunline from 2 directions.

For CSMs, Infiltrating Land Raiders filled with bloodthirsty maniacs is very good, and of course a Heldrake or two does wonders vs their scoring units.

I think an Allied Chaos/Daemons or vice versa list with 2 FMCs, some Hounds and maybe a Herald or 2, a Drake, and a Land Raider, could do very well against the Tide of 4. Once I make some Orks I think a bunch of Lootas on a Skyshield, and a couple Battle Wagons with MegaNobs, and maybe some Warbikers would also do nicely.

Black Blow Fly said the guy did play a Hounds list and faired quite well however. Not sure what else was in there though, probably Fatey I bet.

[Tepogue]

Umm, how do you infiltrate land raiders in a CSM army?

[Mr.Pickelz]

for Orkz:
Lootas - Lots o Str 7 shots
Shokk Attack Gun - Ap2, and has a chance to remove the model completely (6,6 result)
Big Gunz (Kannons) - Krak missiles with Grotz shooting, plus cheap and good screeners at T7
Battlewagons - Deff-Rollas, Outflank if possible, AV14 on front will toss some fits from certain players, if taken, take in mass quantity
Tank bustas - A unit of Orks with Krak Missiles
Zagstuck Stormboyz - Can assault off deepstrike, Zagstuck has a Power Klaw that strikes at Normal Initiative value
Zhadsnark(IA) - Str 10 Power Klaw that can strike at normal Initiative, and is on a bike, so can be fast. Can also declare a Tank Shock in lieu of assaulting (if Zhadsnark isn't killed in Death or Glory the model who attempted is killed)
Supa Kannonz on Battlewagons (IA) - Baslisk style shots, but direct only
Weirdboyz' - Zzapp! is a Str 10 AP2 Melta shot that can Auto-hit, There is also an Auto-hit Template that is only S:6 AP:3 but causes pinning.
Dakkajets - During a "Waagh!", the plane can have 18 str 6 shots, twin-linked and at BS 3
Flash Gitz - Ap: D6, can get 1's and 2's easily, Str 6 with 2 shots at 24 inch range that ignore cover.

Also, the fact that you could take all of this in the same list (depending on FW availability) is another factor...

Edit: "Zzap!" is 36 inch range, so it can snipe units, the Template is 24 inches; the Dakkajet is BS3 against Ground Targets only. (Strafing Run special rule)

[Kaptain Badrukk]

All Ravenwing army.
Turn 1 : Weather Shooting with high toughness and epic saves
Turn 2 : Assault entire Tau army and win

Don't think this is possible?
Think Again.

[Demonus]

Umm, how do you infiltrate land raiders in a CSM army?

Arihman and Huron can give infiltrate. It may work on the LRs

[Stone Edwards]

All Ravenwing army.
Turn 1 : Weather Shooting with high toughness and epic saves
Turn 2 : Assault entire Tau army and win

Don't think this is possible?
Think Again.

Doesn't work quite so well when you get 2 or 3 str 9 ap 2 pie plates put on top of your bikes.


Arihman and Huron can give infiltrate. It may work on the LRs

Now that is a good question. Since the IC would have to be joining the unit that has the LR as a dedicated transport it would kind of fall under the "can an IC infiltrate a unit without the rule" debate that has been going on.

Without knowing much about orks this doesn't mean much but those all sound like decent ideas. Especially the AV14 battlewagons and the Zagstuck Stormboyz. Get them tied up with the Stormboyz so you can move the rest of your stuff up, the only issue would be if the Tau player takes vectored retro thrusters on the commander for hit and run.


On another note I believe the only reason the above list didn't win Nova was because the opposing player in the final managed to kill kill most of his troops when they came in with interceptor. The other player was running a Eldar/Tau list with its own riptide though :p

[sparti67]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I would take corsairs to close in fast. And with the corsair hw upgrade it's goodbye riptide.

[DarkLink]

Doesn't work quite so well when you get 2 or 3 str 9 ap 2 pie plates

That's 4-6 dead bikes. Not very scary.

[Falco]

Grav Weapons and Poisoned shots. Make them take a ton of saves.

Or just Jaws them off the table with 4 rune priests in drop pods.

[Moriquendi]

that is a good question. Since the IC would have to be joining the unit that has the LR as a dedicated transport it would kind of fall under the "can an IC infiltrate a unit without the rule" debate that has been going on.
:p

Huron and Ahriman have the warlord trait that allows D3 units to be given infiltrate.

[xilton]

For one, utilize lots of LOS blocking terrain. Frontline Gaming just wrote an article on that at duelcon.


This is more hope than a solution. The way terrain are done are not always constant and will not always guarantee a lot of blocking and in most cases, you can always move away from these anyway. Terrain is never a solution to winning, it's just a bonus.

[Ravingbantha]

His army has is geared more towards taking on harder targets. Most of his weapons are low shot numbers or high strength. The only exception is the smart missile systems but these are mounted with an anti-tank weapon, so it’s the riptides are an either-or unit.

The issue you have to overcome is getting past 2+ saves and high wound models. Starcannons are great for this, 36” range, S6, AP2, which can be mounted on Vypers, War Walkers, Wraithlords, Wasp Walkers, Wraithknights, Crimson Hunters or Hornets. Wraithlords and Knights have the added bonus of doing a lot better in CC then Riptides and Crisis suits. If you decide to go with Wraithlord or knights, I would fill all 3 HS slots with any combo of them. This list also seems to have anti-flyer support locked down, so either you go big or not at all with the flyers.

You might want to look at running heavy on the troops, Shurken cannons don’t pack the punch of the Starcannons, but you sure can get a lot of shots out there, and that will add up. I also like the idea of using either Illic or Karandras with a unit of Fire Dragons or Wraithguard, allowing you to get these units in deep

[Tepogue]

Arihman and Huron can give infiltrate. It may work on the LRs


Umm, it says "d3 Infantry units" unless Land Raiders have suddenly become Infantry, then someone is cheating.

[Mr.Pickelz]

"Without knowing much about orks this doesn't mean much but those all sound like decent ideas. Especially the AV14 battlewagons and the Zagstuck Stormboyz. Get them tied up with the Stormboyz so you can move the rest of your stuff up, the only issue would be if the Tau player takes vectored retro thrusters on the commander for hit and run."

Orks can spam the ever-living stuffing out of stuff, it's their niche, So when i say Lootas, I mean at least 30 of them (10 per squad), At least 3 Battlewagons(Dedicated Transports for Nobz), 2 or more squads of Big Gunz (3 Kannons each) Dakkajets are around a Vendetta in cost, Zagstruck's unit along with the Supa-Kannon and Flash Gitz are your only real points heavy unit(s).

With the recent release of FW's Apoc Book, you could also toss a Big Squiggoth in the list, it's expensive for a transport, but it's an MC with a open-topped Transport (Howda) that can hold a full squad of Lootas. It's a bit much, but it is annoying to deal with.

[Lord Krungharr]

Umm, it says "d3 Infantry units" unless Land Raiders have suddenly become Infantry, then someone is cheating.

It works this way...you probably don't bother nominating Huron or any other HQ. You nominate a unit of Chaos Terminators (which is an Infantry unit) and purchase a Land Raider as dedicated transport. Infiltrating units can Infiltrate embarked in vehicles so long as they are dedicated transports. I like Khorne Terminators with Icons of Wrath and all combi-plasmas; lots of attacks, lots of AP2 shooty stuff before they charge too.
Of course that's a bunch of points, probably over 900 for 2 units, but tough nuts to crack.

I can't imagine ever using Ahriman at all though, too many points for what we get. Huron can stay back with some Havocs or Obliterators on a Skyshield if NOVA ever permits them to be used. A digression, but I think it's very weak of them to wait on GW to make an FAQ. They make rulings for contentious issues already, just bite into it and make some damn rulings on the Skyshield like:

you can't move or shoot thru the Pad's platform. it's just difficult terrain to get on or off it just like all their other area terrain is, though we usually play it as 3" up which makes sense. walls up provides either 5+ or 4+ cover saves.

I also think they should allow the Fortress of Redemption though it is certainly a ridiculous size.

Armies using either of those Fortifications would have a great help in lasting against a 4 Riptide army.

[Krootdude]

Dreadknights with great-swords make mince-meat out of riptides. Generally Force-weapons are great, since they're monstrous creatures and not vehicles.

[Tyrendian]

Dreadknights with great-swords make mince-meat out of riptides. Generally Force-weapons are great, since they're monstrous creatures and not vehicles.

good luck against their 2+ armour save with regular force weapons... Dreadknights do work though, as do Nemesis Hammers - if you can catch them

[biffster666]

1850pts, correct?

Farseer with Shard, Spear, Spirit Stone and a Jetbike.
2x 8 man Dire Avengers squads. Each squad has a WS with Bright Lances and Holo-fields.
1 9 man Windrider Jetbike Squadron with 3 SC's. Farseer is with them.
1 7 man Windrider Jetbike Squadron with 2 SC's.
3x Wraithknights with GG/SS and 2x Starcannon's.

1845pts

[DarkLink]

good luck against their 2+ armour save with regular force weapons... Dreadknights do work though, as do Nemesis Hammers - if you can catch them

Dreadknights will catch them. The question is of they'll live long enough to charge. Dreadknights are very fragile.

[chicop76]

As a Tau player and facing many different armies I wouldn't field 4 riptides. I might field 5 one day just cause I can. The problem with 4 is they do not really have the anti horde fire power and cuts down on your scouring troops. Besides that they are great for killing armor 2 etc.

For eldar the best model to face the riptide is the wraithknight. In a shooting contest the knight is slightly better and have a decent chance of killing the tide by ranged fire. In combat it can be interesting if the tide pulls off three plus invulnerable saves. The knight is a good counter measure.

Fire Dragons are another. Especially if they have melta bombs.

Wraithguard can be another issue.

Everything else besides Harliquins are pretty much ignorable. The main issue is the possible three plus invulnerable save the riptide could have.

Against oshova bomb it is probably best to keep reserves to counter the bomb. However it is mainky anti elte than anything else.

With everyone else I can say with 2 tides I have had atleast one survive for a whole game. If you have weapons than can bypass my armour I tend to stay out of their range, which is why grav gun bikes haven't been an issue, helps to have kroot keep them back as well.

Best bet is to kill the anti cover saves, kill troops or scoring units and flat out just ignore the tides. They can be a pain in combat for some units. I would say units like veterans with melta bombs work really well against the tides.

This list is week against scout rush as well. I personally laugh at scout rush since my infiltrators cancel out your scout move anyway.

[Havik110]

Psyker Power: Fear of the Darkness (-2 Leadership). Make them run away without firing a shot.

Blood Angles can have 5 psykers in an 1,850 list: 2x HQ Librarians (in drop pods), 3x Elite Librarian Dreadnoughts (AV13). As a bonus, the 3 Libby Dreadnoughts can insta-death anything with a Toughness value using their Libby Force weapon. Add Wings of Sanguinious (12" Jump Pack) to the Libby Dreads to get them across the board quickly. Librarian Dreadnoughts with Wings also get Hammer of Wrath attacks (per the BA FAQ).

Riptides, Crisis suits, etc. all run off the table quickly or get cornered and insta-killed.

Include 3 Drop pods in your list to get the first 2 Librarians in position on turn 1.


the issue with this is getting close...if you drop in a pod with those tau on the field you get shot as you land...good chance you lose most of what podded in before anything else happens...

[chicop76]

the issue with this is getting close...if you drop in a pod with those tau on the field you get shot as you land...good chance you lose most of what podded in before anything else happens...

4 pie plates in da face

[Da Gargoyle]

I don't recall anyone mentioning Falcons here. Scatter laser and Pulse laser combo on a Falcon with a Shuriken Cannon upgrade and there is a serious AP2 laser locked threat. Two Falcons at range and two Serpents again with Shuriken Cannon, and wraithguard to spill out when you get there. Keep a wind rider sqd handy for claiming objectives and a couple of guardian sqds for holding objectives plus whatever for HQ. Not quite sure of the points costing on that, and it may look like an army built on one target, but if suits front up those pulse lasers and wraith cannon will toast them too. And heavy weapons options for guardians are much cheaper now for things like star cannon. I now tend to think of my guardians as the defensive unit for a heavy weapon platform. There are wraith lords and avatars etc but they are slow across the board I think. It would be funny to see a riptide tied up all game in combat with an avatar though. That might just be worse than seeing it killed.

[chicop76]

The issue with the fiptide is the 3 plus invulnerable it can bave. I have faced 9 serpents and they still couldn't down a riptide, imagine if I had fnp.

The only things that I seen bring them down reliably are these weapons.

Melta bombs in the whole squad.
Hidden power fist.
Poison attacks ranged and melee.
Lots of plasma and lascannons

Now what is seen that brings it down, but takes all game to do so.
Serpent fire
Lottas
Mass strength 5 or higher.

The problem with the Tide is that it can opt to be a really long range platform staying out of grav gun range. The dilemma is trying to get the grav gun in range before that unit is wiped out.

The next problem is the invulnerable save upgrade. The upgrade changes from 9- 10 lascannon wounds to 16 lascannon wounds to kill it, even more due to fnp if taken.

However interesting enough is I tend to inflict more wounds on my tides than what the other player does. For example one took 4 wounds from charging and never took a wound from the enemy. For some reason I roll really bad on the charges when I want strength 9 shots, but really good when I need that save.

I noticed that when I am facing Tau vs Tau my rail sides and rip tides can shred a riptide a turn. I figure an Exorcist can do pretty well an an anti riptide platform as well.

[chicop76]

Almost forgot. Flying MCs and Turbo boosting bikes can possibly get in combat with the tide and bring it down. Keep in mind though the tide can possibly move 30" in one turn, have done it several times. If the tide rolls good it can easily avoid combat.

[AlexRae]

White Scars going first.

Next?

[chicop76]

White Scars going first.

Next?

Depends on the board and if the Tau does not field kroot.

[Urza8188]

Space marine captain or CM with shield eternal in a pod will tank pie plates well enough. Throw em in a gravgun/plasma command squad or 10 stern and drop pod. Pair this up with more pods or bikes or both... It works surprisingly well. You guys i think give too much credit to the pie plates. They can and do miss and/or get hot and you can LOS them by dropping into ruins ect. 5 gravguns will down a riptide a turn with a 5+ cover and if they go to ground theyre sitting ducks for a charge.

[Da Gargoyle]

Poison attacks - right then. The left field force in our apocalypse game was zombies, courtesy of CHAOS of course. It might take a while to get them accross the board but once they are there, FNP 3+ and poison attack 4+. A mob of 20 should be about right, shame they are not in the rules and I am not quite sure how they bite through even Tau armour, but there you are.

[chicop76]

Poison attacks - right then. The left field force in our apocalypse game was zombies, courtesy of CHAOS of course. It might take a while to get them accross the board but once they are there, FNP 3+ and poison attack 4+. A mob of 20 should be about right, shame they are not in the rules and I am not quite sure how they bite through even Tau armour, but there you are.

Good luck getting to one with that squad. They have slow and purposeful and the tide have extra 2d6 movement and cand move and extra 2d6 on a 3 plus. If they assault a riptide than someone is playing their tides wrong.