Multi-discipline gaming edge?

[Mr Mystery]

Evening all.

Thought I'd put this thread here rather than 40k General as it mostly relates to tactics and strategies I developed playing Fantasy, and their application in 40k.

Bit of background might help. The other weekend, I had a game at Warhammer world. 1,000 points of 40k, my Necrons against interragator_chaplains Dark Angels. Suffice to say the game went my way.

As I meandered my way back to my Hotel to meet up with my friends, I reflected upon what went well for me. And I think it might be my experience of Fantasy.

Now this isn't a case of 'square base good, round base bad', but a postulation that being used to more than one system giving me a different perspective. In terms of Fantasy, I put a lot of stock in a solid deployment, be it an oblique line, refused flank, or what have you. The importance in Fantasy is more pronounced than 40k, as it's a right sod to redress your battle line if you make a mistake.

Playing a predominantly shooty 40k army, I tend to refuse flank quite a bit. And I've noticed quite a few 40k only players just coming at me piecemeal, allowing me to concentrate all my dakka, annihilating entire squads. But being well used to 40k as well, I know victory lies with objectives, so whilst castling on a refused flank can work out well, it's entirely dependant on favourable objective locations.

So overall, I feel that by dint of playing two systems, I've become a better player.

But how about you? What's your experience here. Do you find it easier to take on players who stick to one system, or do you find it doesn't make much difference?

[Nabterayl]

I think that the game is sufficiently tactical that any tactical experience helps. My dad is a pretty good 40K player despite having little experience with the game, because he played boatloads of wargames in college (and ... dinghy-loads after college). I have a friend who was a fairly average player when I first met him, and came out of the Army as a much, much better player despite not having played for years.

In fact, one of the things I like most about 40K is that it is a tactical game, as evidenced by the fact that having real-world tactical skill, or at least an intellectual understanding of real-world tactics, appreciably helps you play better. There are system-specific things that you can learn, and there are places where it departs from or even flies in the face of real-world tactics, but the game is not (in my opinion) predominantly system. It's predominantly tactics. I don't play Fantasy, but my understanding is that the same is true of WHFB.

[Wildeybeast]

For me, it's the movement that is key. In Warhammer, if you get your unit in the wrong place, facing at slightly the wrong angle, or even move them in the wrong order, it can cost you the whole game. This brings a much greater focus on exactly what the function of that unit is within your whole battle plan and how it will work alongside everything else, because if you don't know that, how can you know where to put them? Purely based on my experience, that skill is less developed in 40k. This isn't a criticism, but I see 40k only players as being much more focused on the individual strengths of a unit, what it can accomplish on it's own and how much stuff it can kill. I think that is something which has been reflected in (or possibly caused by) codex creep and the desire to have ever more killy uber units. A fantasy player knows no matter how good your deathstar unit may be, let it get flank charged by those skaven slaves and it is in a whole heap of trouble. In 40K, you can chuck it into the meat grinder, confident it should beat anything which is statistically less killy than it is. I've seen 40K players coming into Warhammer taking this approach, with armies based on the most killy stuff possible just being chucked down any old how. It tends to be a rude awakening.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

I'd say that both WFB and especially LOTR (now Hobbit, or "Warhammer Historical with magic" for those of us who play it) really help you learn about positioning and unit synergy in a way that everyone who plays power armor, ork and nid in 40k doesn't ever NEED to learn and so rarely does. Tau and Eldar (both flavors) players (and to a lesser extent guard) do need to however.

[Mr Mystery]

All fair points.

And now I'm on a proper keyboard, and not my iPhone, another thought....

In Fantasy, we have the old adage 'always better to charge than be charged'. And it's one I tend to stick to (I have little choice. I have a chariot fetish. And also a large Ogre army) religiously. And yes, that transfers across to 40k as well. I don't care how badly I'm going to get my teeth kicked down my throat, sometimes it's just inevitable. So get that charge in instead. Jump your aggressor, and bag those bonus attacks. I'm not going to lie and say such acts of derring do pay off on a regular basis, but it does give you a better chance at dropping the odd bad guy, and has the added affect of potentially leaving them in a worse position than their player intended if the combat drags on (good way to prevent speed boosts from easily won combats!). And yes, sometimes your little dudes do win that combat outright!

And now I'm thinking of strategies and tactics from 40k that have found their way into my Warhammer repetoire....

(Remember, casual readers, this isn't a case of square base good, round base bad, just a discussion on different tactics from different games being transferable!)

[Wildeybeast]

With random charge ranges, it can sometimes be better not to charge than charge. Needing to roll 10+? I'd usually stay put and let my opponent come to me, rather than risk a failed charge and leave myself in a bad position for counter charges. Especially now you no longer strike first in Warhammer, there is much less need to be the charger.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

I find I make my 40K armies based on units working together. This seems to directly link to my Fantasy armies (Empire and Ogres) key strengths. I wonder if that's a pattern in my play or a learned behavior from one to the other...........

[Cactus]

I think a broader scope of knowledge (in any aspect of life) is only an advantage and playing any number of mini games can help you with the next mini game you play.

Having said that, I still mix up rules from all of the editions of 40k, WHFB, Necromunda, Warzone, Warmahordes, etc...

[Katharon]

Winning in a game of WHFB is 70% deployment.