It's oh so quiet....

[Mr Mystery]

The recent gibbering about Dark Elves has me chomping at the bit for more Fantasy goodness....

But paint me green and call me kenneth, the fantasy boards are just so quiet!!

What's the fix people? We had loads of new people in the rumour thread. How do we keep them about??

[Kirsten]

well general bit of news I noticed some of the warhammer collectible stuff like the sartosa vampire and zombies have gone. the sections still exist on the site but they are empty.

[ACE01]

If BOLS had more fantasy content I think there would be more people posting about it.

The front page is regularly graced with all manner or 40k stuff, but sadly very little WFB. This is, of course partially due to it becoming firmly 'that other gw game,' as rumours and new stuff drive traffic.

Personally, the DElves look awesome, but I think collecting an army of them would be horribly expensive (thinking mainly about 10core per box). Again that seems to be a problem when striking up new conversation, as wfb gets harder to get into financially we find less players, and existing players dejected by costs.

Anyway, some mumblings to contribute!

[silashand]

I think collecting an army of them would be horribly expensive (thinking mainly about 10core per box). Again that seems to be a problem when striking up new conversation, as wfb gets harder to get into financially we find less players, and existing players dejected by costs.

Where I am at very few people still play WFB. Between 8th edition and the constant price rises people just don't want to keep up with it and new players take one look at cost and go play Infinity instead. I'm sure some folks will deny fantasy is mostly a faint glimmer of its former self, but regardless the claims to the contrary I just don't see it being played anymore in all the places I've been in the past couple years. It's really a shame because WFB was always my favorite until 8th edition came around. Oh well I guess...

[eldargal]

Since 8th edition it has become one of the top five selling properties according to a survey of US retailers. Prior to 8th it wasn't on the list. This in a country where it has historically always been less popular than it is in Europe.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Don't look at me; I've been looking at getting into Fantasy for a while and Dark Elves (or lizardmen!) have me salivating. I spent a good chunk of yesterday going over rules and how to build armies with my much more knowledegable brother.

It's a distraction from updating my Space Marines, but...

Also, you know, like with that quiet revolution of Good Posts we had a while back, we could just make sure we're gabbing about Fantasy more. ;)

[Wildeybeast]

I propose we start referring to it by it's proper name. It is called Warhammer, the Game of Fantasy Battles, so we should call it Warhammer. Warhammer 40,000 came later and used the name, so we should put it in its rightful place by referring to it as 40K. Then everyone will know which is best and more people will play Warhammer, thus more contributors to the Warhammer forum. Also, we should spam BR with PM's demanding that he move this section above the 40K one. We all know two thirds of the people on here on post in 40K because they can't be bothered to scroll down further.

[Psychosplodge]

But the level of irrelevance would surpass the oubliette, as they wouldn't get any less lazy.

[Katharon]

I've always called it "Warhammer Fantasy" or just "Fantasy" in most conversations. I think these forums remain quiet because there isn't as much debate over rules -- most are well enough written that people aren't confused and less people try to rules lawyer in WFB. At least, that's been my experience.

[eldargal]

I call it Dubya Eff Bee. Really. Annoys the hell out of my brothers.

When they aren't around I just call it Warhammer.

[Mr Mystery]

So how does one get something on the front page?

I'd imagine a series of articles entitled 'Dirty Little Fantasy' might suffice :p

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Why not ask Bigred if you could do a writing slot?

[Mr Mystery]

That's a good idea....and suspiciously sensible....

Any more and we'll have to suspend your Oubliette privileges for a period....

[Psychosplodge]

Don't Doc and Soton contribute? They'll probably know...

[Wildeybeast]

I'd like to contribute to the front page, but I don't think I could cope with all the hate that I'd get. Plus I don't know what I write about.

[silashand]

Since 8th edition it has become one of the top five selling properties according to a survey of US retailers. Prior to 8th it wasn't on the list. This in a country where it has historically always been less popular than it is in Europe.

I remember that list (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/25378.html). You are incorrect in saying "since 8th edition" though. A survey of all reports since 2008 (the first year this report was available) WFB has been in the top 5 in all of them and was likely there well before they originally started gathering this data. It has, however, dropped from #3 to #4 in the last couple years and has been most recently supplanted by X-Wing. The popular internet falsehood that WFB was not in the top 5 miniatures games until 8th edition appears to have started a couple years ago when someone made an assumption about one of the below reports without actually seeing if there were older ones available.

2008 (#5): http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14724.html
2009 (#3): http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/17088.html
2010 (#3): http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/17572.html (8th edition released in July)
2011 (#3): http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/22215.html
2012 (#4): http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/25378.html
2013 (#4): http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/26216.html

Anyway, take that for what you will. I stand by my earlier statement that WFB is considerably less prevalent in the US than it was even five years ago. I tend to travel relatively frequently and where I used to see a fairly decent representation of WFB players whenever I would visit a game store, very few of those same stores have any WFB games at all nowadays. When I talk to the store owners most of them tell me the same thing, that Warhammer Fantasy is their slowest selling miniatures line, though they do say the primary reason seems to be cost of entry for new players. This last seems consistent with my own attempts to get people into the GW hobby over the past couple years. I can't tell you the number of times I have heard the phrase, "I need to spend HOW MUCH for an army?!?!?" It would be funny if it weren't such a sad change from how easy it was to get people interested just 5-6 years ago.

As always, JMO...

Cheers, Gary

[angrybear]

Well I recently joined here but I found this forum (fantasy side not the dark side^^) pretty active. However there are some things that make 40k more popular here. Like someone mentioned already Bols posts much more about 40k. And this forum starts with 40k instead of fantasy. Also I think many people like to visit this site and read all the articles but don't bother to be a member. I am a fantasy player only so good news for the fantasy section^^.

[Bigred]

From a frontpage point of view, Fantasy is a very difficult climb.

4 years ago, it was easy to find and get in WFB contributors and the game got much more coverage. Then 8th arrived, contributors dried up and we have had an extremely difficult time finding new ones to fill the spot consistantly.

So while covering WFB news and product releases is as easy as any other system, we are desperately in need of tactics/op-ed WFB evangelists. That special someone who really loves the game and has the drive to spread their love with the masses.

If you know anyone who fills the bill, and has a flair for the pen send them my way. I need to talk to them yesterday.

-L

[Morgrim]

Are you interested in one-off articles? A consistent long term gig is hard work but there might be people that did a particularly interesting conversion or happen to be good at the tactics of one particular army or want to write a single news article on how different regions favour different points limits or other such topics that would only be worth 1-3 articles worth.

[Bigred]

It can go either way.

I'll give you some examples.

Learn2Eel writes his fantastic and exhaustive 40K codex reviews, and he posts them here and to his personal site. We will then (with his blessing) turn them into frontpage series of posts on codex unit reviews and give him backlinks to his personal site. This way he doesn't have to post on the frontpage himself.

Another writer may want to just email me the link to solid Lounge posts they make here and we will "promote" them to the frontpage if it is a good fit.

Still others like the blogging side of things and get author-rights on the frontpage and submit posts as they see fit in thier area of expertise from time to time.

There are many ways to skin a cat.

There is an art to writing frongpage blog-centric stuff for the internet masses that is close but slightly different to standard forum writing, but we show all interested writers the ropes and even have a frontpage test site where they can practice in a safe setting.

-Larry

[silashand]

It likely doesn't help, but I would have been interested a few years ago before 8th when WFB was the primary game I played. I just don't find the current edition very enjoyable and have only played around 20 games or so in the last couple years, though I did play a lot the first few months after 8th was released to see if I liked it. Unfortunately most people I know are in the same boat I am, i.e. they have put WFB on hiatus and are awaiting 9th edition to see if it makes Fantasy enjoyable again. I suspect that's probably why you are having such a hard time finding Fantasy contributors. JMO though...

Cheers, Gary

[Kirsten]

I don't understand that at all, 8th is a vastly superior game to 7th.

[Bigred]

I'm not issuing any cause, or specific faults.

I'm just laying out the facts on the ground.

Since 8th hit, fantasy enthusiasm, writers and reader interest has been waning.

I general I would say the sharpest decline occured in the months between 8th arriving and the O&G army book's arrival. Then it started to stabilize a bit, but the damage was done. That was also the period when Warmachine interest really solidified and took off.

[silashand]

I don't understand that at all, 8th is a vastly superior game to 7th.

That would be your *opinion*, of course ;).

While I accept that some people like it and there are a few good ideas in the edition, the number of negative elements far outweigh the positive in *my* opinion :D. A non-exhaustive list I posted on another forum is below:


Just a non-exhaustive list of things I hate about 8th edition:

- skirmishers in movement trays

- skirmishers not having 360 degree LoS

- characters not having 360 degree LoS

- True Line of Stupid (also known as True Line of Sight)

- True Line of Sight as applied to woods when you have to move the damn trees to put a unit inside it. Really???

- charging infantry statistically faster than fleeing cavalry

- magic (lots of elements):

--- random power dice - wtf?

--- no saves of any kind spells that affect entire units

--- random spell generation (granted I have hated this idea for all editions, but anyway)

--- bound spells requiring power dice

--- the elimination of the characterful magic mechanisms for Tomb Kings and Ogres

--- the combination of Irresistible Force and Miscasts

--- the lack of a decent selection of race-specific magic items

--- caster line of sight doesn't include his own unit (What. The. F***?!?!?!)

- flank attacks not negating steadfast

- the lack of model-based unit strength

- the lack of an outnumber bonus in combat

- Always Strikes First + equal In providing a re-roll (makes combat between HE and any other elves just plain idiotic).

- cannons and no range guessing. Personally I think they could fix this by simply requiring a to-hit roll in addition to the current mechanism. If they hit, do it like now. If not, they miss.

- stone thrower strength reduction and lack of armor save negation except under the hole. This has turned them into character snipers rather than unit killers which is completely non-intuitive.

- the forest rules, full stop. You cannot tell me every single forest in the Olde World is some magical cesspool.

- the building rules. Ugh.

- no updated siege rules since 6th.

- the lack of realm-specific terrain tables as in 6th edition (not sure why they ever got rid of those).

- the psychology nerfs:

--- terror only having any effect if you are charged by a terror causer, but not if you want to charge one? WTF?

--- fear being a turn by turn mechanism. So... I'm afraid! No, I'm not! Yes! Yes, I am!!! Wait a minute... that's a giraffe.

--- fear affecting WS rather than leadership.

--- fear not affecting a unit's break potential in combat (personally I don't think auto-break is appropriate, but a penalty to the opponent's leadership if outnumbered would be perfect IMO)

--- battle standards affecting all psych rolls rather than just break tests. So hoisting your dirty underwear (I'm looking at you, Nurgle) on a stick makes you more psychologically stable?

- monsters/riders being both hit by template hits? So the cannon ball magically becomes the size of a boulder when it hits a monster and rider. Ummm... no.

- war machines as a single entity. There was nothing broken about the previous mechanism where you randomized who you hit, thus potentially killing the crew or hitting the machine.

- characters not being able to join war machines if desired to help them out in combat. Sorry guys, I can't associate with you anymore...

- flyers having to "march." WTF???

- breath weapons not being able to be used after "marching." Yeah, that dragon is *soooooo* tired he can't breathe if he flies too hard. Moron rule.

- breath weapons one-use only? Just dumb.

- difficult terrain not affecting movement. No offense to anyone who didn't like it slowing units down, but too bad. That's what happens when you drive your chariot into the mud or attempt to march through an old growth forest. That's why skirmishing units exist.

- volley fire not having a minimum range. So let me get this right, Sarge. We fire our bows straight up in the air to hit the guys three feet in front of us?

- Swiftstride. Just bring back the 3D6 flee movement for cavalry/flyers.

- adding movement rate to charge distances. So bog standard infantry can charge up to 16" in one charge? What the hell were they smoking? I am ambivalent about random charge ranges, but overall the mechanism they chose to implement is dumb and makes infantry *way* too fast.

- leadership test to avoid march blocking. So pretty much anyone can ignore the presence of enemy units now, especially if they have a BSB in the army.

- Quick to Fire weapons not ignoring the penalty to hit for charging enemies. Really? Like those throwing axes were not designed to use when someone's charging you in the first place???

- swarms having the Unstable rule? Really? Like that carpet of bugs cares if you kill a few of them. There's a reason no one takes these things anymore.

- large targets not being +1 to hit. So it's just as easy for me to hit a snotling as it is a giant. Yeah...

- 6+ wounds everything. Really? Said snotling can really hurt that giant? Ummm... just no.

There are a few others I am sure, but those are just the ones that come to mind right now. IMO 8th edition is just plain garbage overall from a wargame standpoint. I don't expect a simulation, but I expect enough "realism" to be able to accept what happens in a fantasy setting. Otherwise it's not a wargame at all.

JMO as always...

Cheers, Gary

[YourSwordisMine]

For me, the expected 9e next year has blunted my momentum for WFB unfortunately...

[eldargal]

Actually rumours are saying it won't be here 'til 2015.

[silashand]

Actually I doubt it will wait until 2015. GW has been pretty consistent with their 4-year release schedule since they adopted it what, 8-10 years ago? Plus, next year is the 30th anniversary of Warhammer Fantasy Battles (it was originally released in 1983) so I would expect they will probably celebrate in some fashion which more than likely will be a new edition. JMO though...

Cheers, Gary

[Deadlift]

Actually rumours are saying it won't be here 'til 2015.

I'm not usually one to say "I have a friend who says and worked for" but in this case I will :D. He's an ex employee now and obviously strategies change but he has been positive next year we will see another WFB edition. I hope so as it might actually encourage to go give it a go.

[Denzark]

I so want to play fantasy but nothing I ever hear about it encourages me to take further time from my 40K capacity...