Relic Blade for Terminator Captain/Master

[biteymcrunrun]

I was just reading through my space marine codex and noticed that both the Chapter Master in Terminator Armour and the Terminator Captain cannot buy relic blades. On the Terminator Captain this certainly seems intentional, and it is most likely the same for the Chapter Master, but does anyone know why? It seems to make a lot of conversion and model ideas I had useless, which is a shame

[Kaptain Badrukk]

I was just reading through my space marine codex and noticed that both the Chapter Master in Terminator Armour and the Terminator Captain cannot buy relic blades. On the Terminator Captain this certainly seems intentional, and it is most likely the same for the Chapter Master, but does anyone know why? It seems to make a lot of conversion and model ideas I had useless, which is a shame

Because Calgar touches himself at night?
Seriously though, I have no bloody idea.
At a guess I'd say because there's no relic blade terminator model.
More likely because it was a special weapons in command squads moment.
Also WTF happened to my auxiliary grenade launcher!?!?
I loved that thing.

[Houghten]

I loved the launchers too. I had multiple Captains converted with them on shoulders and wrists.

Also of note:

From the ranged weapon list:
Combi-flamer, -melta, -plasma or -grav

From the Terminator weapon list:
Combi-flamer, -melta or -plasma

[Tynskel]

For Decades, the Terminator Commander CC weapon has always been the Iconic Power Sword.

[SaveModifier]

terminator armour is too restrictive to allow you to hold a sword in two hands, you couldn't reach it and you'd look silly

[Houghten]

For Decades, the Terminator Commander CC weapon has always been the Iconic Power Sword.

Except when it's a thunder hammer.


terminator armour is too restrictive to allow you to hold a sword in two hands, you couldn't reach it and you'd look silly

But it's strong enough for you to hold the two-handed sword with one hand.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Except for the fact that commander cullen and chapter master cullen both can use a relic blade.... its a stupid thing to not be able to take one. the guys i play with let me take one on the commander and on the chapter master just swap it out for the power weapon and add in a few points. wont be tournament legal but honestly at that point who really cares? i know if im doing a tourne im allowed to use forgeworld so at the point i pay the cullen tax and take him then.. but in friendly games my chapter master has a relic blade. i took the time to convert the model up the weapon loosk amazing and honestly look at nemesis force weapons... 2x the size of a power weapon and still can have a wrist mounted storm bolter... so i don't want to hear any of the you cant use a relic blade in terminator armour that is just a nonsensical argument.

[SaveModifier]

Except when it's a thunder hammer.



But it's strong enough for you to hold the two-handed sword with one hand.

so shouldn't terminators just be stronger then, giving their power swords the extra strength that a relic blade would give them anyway?

A two handed sword isn't more powerful simply because its heavier, its also the way its used, a terminator would use a relic blade the same way he would use a power sword essentially, mostly a straight chop from the way the armour seems to restrict them, not a lot of lateral movement, meaning a swing would be limited. Essentially, the Relic Blade would be the same as a power sword in effect therefore, we've seen other weapons giving the +2 Str because they're two handed, so presumebly, thats where the Relic Blades extra strength comes from?

[Houghten]

Given that relic blade / storm shield is still a legal combo... I'm going to have to go with no, it comes from somewhere else.

[Tynskel]

Except for the fact that commander cullen and chapter master cullen both can use a relic blade.... its a stupid thing to not be able to take one. the guys i play with let me take one on the commander and on the chapter master just swap it out for the power weapon and add in a few points. wont be tournament legal but honestly at that point who really cares? i know if im doing a tourne im allowed to use forgeworld so at the point i pay the cullen tax and take him then.. but in friendly games my chapter master has a relic blade. i took the time to convert the model up the weapon loosk amazing and honestly look at nemesis force weapons... 2x the size of a power weapon and still can have a wrist mounted storm bolter... so i don't want to hear any of the you cant use a relic blade in terminator armour that is just a nonsensical argument.

:)
You, sir, are playing 40k the way GW wants you to.

[Tynskel]

The reality:
This is clearly due to the recent lawsuits form manufactures that create models/bitz that GW does not have.

If there isn't an official model with the supposed gear, a 3 party can slip in.

[DWest]

Mechanically, for 10 points more you can buy the Teeth of Terra, which is a Relic Blade (Chainsword!) that also gives you Rampage. I'm very sold on it, especially after watching my Captain in Artificer Armor saw through 10 Vanguards and Kayvaan Shrike in 2 turns with it.

[Houghten]

The reality:
This is clearly due to the recent lawsuits form manufactures that create models/bitz that GW does not have.

If there isn't an official model with the supposed gear, a 3 party can slip in.

They've had five years to create a model with an auxiliary grenade launcher! But no, it fell out of the codex in the update instead!

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

@Tynskel yup i mean the gaming group i play in has slowly come around to the idea that if your not in a tournament setting its better to have fun then to be that guy lol. and ya that was my solution to the tourne scene they allow forgeworld so when i wanted to use my beautifuly converted and painted chapter master i used him as a counts as cullen. it works i mean it will as lon as forgeworld makes it so that he unnamed primarch chapters stay that way then i can contunue to use cullen to lead my imperial fists sucessors if they make him ultra spawn i will be very disappointed. but other wise just take the cost of the relic blade and subtract the power weapon's points from it and whats left i add onto the model in termi armour it's not the best solution but it works. its the same as if you wanted to make a character with eternal warrior that doesnt have the shield you take the cost of the shield from that relic and spend those points towards it and suddenly you have a character whos eternal has adamantium will and is costed at a reasonable point has a 2+/4+ instead of a 3+ but you don't have to tinker with his model.

[Kirsten]

The reality:
This is clearly due to the recent lawsuits form manufactures that create models/bitz that GW does not have.

If there isn't an official model with the supposed gear, a 3 party can slip in.

total nonsense

[biteymcrunrun]

terminator armour is too restrictive to allow you to hold a sword in two hands, you couldn't reach it and you'd look silly

A captain in power armour can use it with one hand however (relic blade/ storm shield combo), so why cant a terminator captain do the same?

[Tynskel]

total nonsense

Why is this nonsense? They are explicitly only allowing what GW produces.

[Nabterayl]

explicitly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
;)

[Tynskel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
;)

You are right, I should have said 'implicitly'.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

The reality:
This is clearly due to the recent lawsuits form manufactures that create models/bitz that GW does not have.

If there isn't an official model with the supposed gear, a 3 party can slip in.Then why are they introducing Chapter Relics etc that don't have (and likely never will) have official models? Burning Blade, for instance. Or Chaos' Dimensional Key. Daemons' Portalglyph, the Harlequin Mantle thing Autarchs can get...

All of them are equipment on Characters (like the Relic Blade) which do not have a matching model.

[Katharon]

Considering that you can buy two relic blades (no one has ever said how large they really are, only that they are intended for two-handed holds) I don't see Terminator armor being that much of a drag. Not to mention you are allowed to field a character wielding a storm shield and relic blade at the same time. It makes for a nice power weapon that is high strength but not Initiative 1.

[daboarder]

You can't for the same reason BA captains dont have artificer armour.

[Katharon]

A captain in power armour can use it with one hand however (relic blade/ storm shield combo), so why cant a terminator captain do the same?

He did do the same...but they've edited the weapon options layout in such a way that it was eliminated as an option. Sad really.

[Haighus]

Quote Originally Posted by SaveModifier View Post
terminator armour is too restrictive to allow you to hold a sword in two hands, you couldn't reach it and you'd look silly
Which is why the DA terminator command squad has access to a 2 handed halberd.... WITH an actual model wielding it, not to mention the FW terminators with 2 handed weapons. The lack of a relic blade on terminator commanders is stupid, especially with them still being able to access the Teeth of Terra.
EDIT: sorry, I completely hashed the quote system...

[Nabterayl]

I think we all agree that the only reason a terminator commander can't is because the codex just doesn't give him the option. I think Tynskel's supposition about the real-world reasons why is as good as any.

[Mr.Pickelz]

One thing i quite don't understand, especially with BT's, is the exclusion of Power Sword and SS combo on Terminators... As it currently sits, only Space Wolves have the options to allow for a sword n' board style unit. :(
I was hoping that when Grey Knights got a new book, they would have the option, but Ward didn't feel like breaking them that badly... :(
Black Templars, aka a Teutonic style force, should have those options... Why not an elite guard of Terminators with Relic Blade +SS combo? They could be Marshals in training or something.

[Tynskel]

That's really in the realm of Dark Angels knight like symbolism.

I have viewed Black Templars more like the Knights in full armor swinging giant swords around.
Take a Master + Honor Guard with Relic Blades.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

lol apparently i am i guess. i mean i did think the whole point of this game was to have fun after all. Not to mention i'm not a huge converter but when i do subtle changes i do them for a reason and honestly the way i have been looking at it is really its a relic blade... its no cheap so you pay for the +2 str and your never gonna get a bonus with it so its not like its this giant broken sword. that and when you do the number crunch, swapping out the pw for a relic blade is like 15 points so your still paying for it points wise. i think alot of players forget that the point is to have fun and that while yes the rules are the rules. some rules can be bent or broken and the outcome doesn't ruin a game.

i know that myself i haven't played in a tournament in years. the ones i played in were hit or miss you had some good opponents and then you had d-bags and in the end more and more the fun players were removed and the d-bags began to take over. so i stopped playing and stuck with my gaming group and since then i've been able to actually use cool conversion have rules written for unique and cool rules. one of the guys we play with regularly has a beautifully painted and converted nazdreg so he has writtten up his own rules and stats for him and honestly that never once shifted a game to the point where you could argue that it was broken or over powered.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I think we all agree that the only reason a terminator commander can't is because the codex just doesn't give him the option. I think Tynskel's supposition about the real-world reasons why is as good as any.I highly doubt it - the Chapter/Chaos/Eldar relics are all Commander wargear without a matching model. Why would GW say "We can't let Termie Captains have a Relic Blade because the Termie models with swords don't have 'Relic Blades'", but then decide that a flaming sword which has no representation in the Space Marine model lineup is fine?

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

answer to relic blades are bit's boxe's :) dark angles upgrade spru gives you a decent relic blade same with grey knight terminators. the new forge world models for the heresy have relic weapons hmm look at cullens its not necessarily thicker its just a longer sword. so technically any weapon can be a relic blade it just needs some modification to be true wysiwyg

[Katharon]

If you can wield a thunder hammer two-handed or one-handed in Terminator armor, then you can do the same with a relic blade. Terminator armor is not *that* restrictive.

[Houghten]

I think we all agree that the only reason a terminator commander can't is because the codex just doesn't give him the option.

That's not a reason, it's just a restatement of the problem.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Like i said in a tournament setting play cullen as long as they keep scorpions chapter primarch unknown. he has values for both chapter master and captain gives you a relic blade some cool rules and is eternal in both forms. if not and doing friendly games just remove the cost of a power weapon from the relic blades cost when you upgrade to terminator armour i mean it costs roughly the same points as a powerfist as well so thats another way to say you've paid for it ect. for me At this point i have so much invested in this game that i will have fun and if you don't want to share in my fun then that's your loss lol. and i've used cullen and no one has once complained that he was broken or that he was the uber cheese lol

[renuvin]

They've had five years to create a model with an auxiliary grenade launcher! But no, it fell out of the codex in the update instead!

the first ever termie captain that came with the original box set back in 89(?) DID have an auxillary grenade launcher! And i really miss them too. my honour guard had relic blades and AGLs, so your not the only one who wish they were left in

[Anggul]

Can anyone actually explain why Captains and Terminator Captains are different entries? The Chapter Master, Librarian and Chaplain just have Terminator armour under their usual entry, why do specifically Captains need another entry?

[Tynskel]

Can anyone actually explain why Captains and Terminator Captains are different entries? The Chapter Master, Librarian and Chaplain just have Terminator armour under their usual entry, why do specifically Captains need another entry?

This goes allllll the way back to 2nd Edition. 1st Company Commanders were a separate entry.

Additionally, if you want to do the Masters of the Chapter, there is every model available for the Ultramarines:
Chapter Master Calgar
Terminator Captain
Sicarius 2nd Co.
3rd master model
4th master model
5th master model
6th master model
7th master model
8th master model
9th master model
10th master model