A hoard of (chaos?) marines

[sneakyben]

My friends and I have been discussing the possibilities of run a hoard of marines at 1500 and 1750pts (our typical-sized games)...

In our envisioning this we have been looking at the CSM codex...
but what about the new SM codex also? (Can the new SM codex do squads of more than 10 under any circumstances?)

I run a hoard of IG right now and while I have tried to get myself excited about a low-model-count-project,
I can't think of an idea that floats my boat :-) so I am doing my research into this one...

I don't have a CSM or SM codex, so I have questions:

The idea is an extreme interpretation of boys-before-toys with an army type that I have not seen used in this fashion...
It is not a 'competitive' idea but ideally it would work in at a games club where the people are pretty competent...

6 squads of 20 Chaos marines, no upgrades (unless champions can take meltabombs) and some(?) hq(s) to keep your blokes from running away if possible
(or at least to raise Ld of the squads... and an extra bonus if they have a cheap trick for av14)

Who cares if you can't kill landraiders or flyers, they will have to work very hard to kill enough of you (especially if you keep your spacing to avoid pie plates
and ice cream cones)... this list would ominously march across the board boltering infantry, grenade-ing armour and trying to swamp things, while dieing
by the bucket load thus keeping khorne v happy but still having enough left at the end if all goes well for objectives and the like

Without posting up exact costs, can you fit the 120+ marines into 1500pts?

Thinking along the lines of a disparate just-fallen chaos warband, the scope for different schemes of painting thoughout the list could be pretty interesting,
even though everything is power armour...

[Lexington]

Fun idea!

If you want to be extra annoying with this list, give every squad the Fearless Icon.

[mysterex]

Without posting up exact costs, can you fit the 120+ marines into 1500pts?


Off the top of my head a 20 model CSM squad with no upgrades costs 270 points so no.

You could probably do five squads plus a character and a few basic upgrades giving you 101.

[Chaoschrist]

As posted above; 270 a squad of 20, so no. If anything, I'd recommend, Meltabomb on the champ + Icon of vengeance. Tops off at 300 points a squad of 20 fearless marines with at least some anti-armor options

But it also reduces it to 4 squads in 1500 points, with 300 points left for other stuff. Might even add some special weapons amongst those 20 man squads. 100 man might fit in 1750 with 250 of headspace for upgrades + an HQ.

I think in 1500, the most marines you can fit in is; 110... but you're short for an HQ. In 1750 games; you should be able to put 120 models in and still have 130 left for an HQ.

[dirkspair]

Just for your information, it is horde, not hoard, a hoard is an accumulation of stuff, like a dragons hoard :)

now, for a horde of marines, would it not be a bit blah to play that many marines that have no variation in their army at all? just do a few less marines but mix up the squads a bit, a melta gun here, a flamer there etc. then at least you can tell which squad performed how and how they become legends of infamy! :)

[Katharon]

You might try doing it with Black Templar -- their Crusader squads are the only squads in the new SM codex that can let you get higher than 10 models in the unit.

[ElectricPaladin]

I fought a Codex: Space Marines army like this, and it was a very hard nut for me to crack. The best way I can think of to describe it, tactically, is that it was like water. Every heavy weapon was just a single model, sitting in a sea of other models. Everything had a 3+ save. There was no hard center to crack, no elites to take out, just a sea of bodies, absorbing my fire, and gradually moving into position.

The weakness of such an army is its lack of mobility. My mechanized force - complete with vehicle-mounted heavy weapons - was able to completely outmaneuver them. In the end, I was able to whittle them down and claim the objectives that mattered.

That said, it's a totally viable strategy. The fact is that the most powerful asset of any Space Marine force is the Space Marine. Other armies have better vehicles, better elites, better Deep Strikers, better Infiltrators, and better Outflankers... only Space Marines have army-wide 3+, BS 4, WS 4, T 4, and the best morale in the game.

These days, even my mechanized Space Marine forces usually consist of at least three Troops units. For my "tough nut crackers," I usually take a basic unit and give it a buffing character, like a Librarian or Chaplain. Basic marines are nothing to sneeze at.

[sneakyben]

Thank you for all your replies... that is really great info (and sorry for my spelling of horde... but I are an engineer so I should be forgiven :-))

I have some follow-up questions regarding the Black Templar option for this idea:

How many 'normal' T4,S4,AV3 marines could you fit into 1500/1750?

Fluff-wise, BTs wouldn't have much variation in their colour schemes would they? Just black with white and red trim?

[DWest]

Just for your information, it is horde, not hoard, a hoard is an accumulation of stuff, like a dragons hoard :)
I dunno, I think 'hoard' might be appropriate . . . a dragon could probably get a decent night's sleep on the coin needed for 101 power-armored bodies and the paint to slather all of them!

[Katharon]

Thank you for all your replies... that is really great info (and sorry for my spelling of horde... but I are an engineer so I should be forgiven :-))

I have some follow-up questions regarding the Black Templar option for this idea:

How many 'normal' T4,S4,AV3 marines could you fit into 1500/1750?

Fluff-wise, BTs wouldn't have much variation in their colour schemes would they? Just black with white and red trim?

You can fit 60 power armored Space Marines into either a BT list or a regular SM list, for under 1,000 points. That is without upgrades, etc.

If you were to get six Crusader squads with ten Initiates (regular marines) and ten neophytes (scouts) in each squad, all without upgrades, it would take you to 1440 points.

[Lord Krungharr]

I've been toying with a horde for my hoard of models also :)

Such an idea would be almost certainly better with non CSM armies, as SMs cannot be Sweeping Advanced. I guess whilst the CSM Icon of Vengeance remains living, neither can they, but that can be sniped, though not often. But with Huron Blackheart up to D3 units of those Chaos Marines could Infiltrate, and he's not too many points, plus gets the random psychic powers for fun extras. Now that's something interesting; even Outflanking it could be neat depending on the situation. Fabius Bile might also be of note, giving a unit Fearless and S5 (possibly something else, I forget). That saves some points on the Icon at least.

Hordes of Daemons I have not seen yet either. We all want to use the super duper killers, but I like this water-effect idea. Bruce Lee said, 'Be like water, man!'

[BrianDavion]

if you wanna run a huge wave of bodies rememebr CSMs also have access to cultists. a Half/Half Mixture might work nicely

3 Units of 20 Chaos Marines wtith an icon of vengence and melta bomb on champ. 300 pts per troop 900 pts
3 Units of 35 cultists and autoguns (550 points)

so that's 1450 points for your troops. giving you, in a 1750 point list 300 points left over for an HQ or whatever.

for funsies drop a meltabomb from one of your champions, take a terminator level 3 sorc, and a helldrake.

[lobo60]

I'm a fan of the Chaos Marine because of this simple rule, (Strength in numbers) you can theoretically run you chaos marines any way you want just keep in mind to specialize them towards this. I like the idea of Master of Deception coming immediately with Huarn Black heart. now keep him with one blob of maybe MoN and make another blob of close combat khorne guys with a lord (MoK, Axe of Blind fury, aura of dark glory=125pts for a cheap fearless melee unit) now you have 2 fearless 20 man squads marching down the field and since their fearless comes from the ICs no one is going to snipe them out of that unit like they would an Icon. now I do sometimes run this with Berserkers in blocks of 20. they are expensive but, man do they pack a punch. then you could add some havocs a heldrake of course and either some marines in a rhino or some combi terminators for what you need.

[Katharon]

if you wanna run a huge wave of bodies rememebr CSMs also have access to cultists. a Half/Half Mixture might work nicely

3 Units of 20 Chaos Marines wtith an icon of vengence and melta bomb on champ. 300 pts per troop 900 pts
3 Units of 35 cultists and autoguns (550 points)

so that's 1450 points for your troops. giving you, in a 1750 point list 300 points left over for an HQ or whatever.

for funsies drop a meltabomb from one of your champions, take a terminator level 3 sorc, and a helldrake.


Imperial Guard can do a mob of infantry better -- almost as good if not better than Orks.