Married Tax Breaks

[DrLove42]

So Davie C has today announced £200 tax breaks a year for married couples

Guess thats ok. But two things

Is this really their approach to fixing a broken society with such rampant divorce? Throw 2 weeks rent money at couples, probably just driving up the number of people marrying just to scrounge a bit more cash?

Also Labour said "He was out of touch for suggesting couples would get married for less than 3 pound a week". Sorry I thought i got.married for love you insufferable cockwipe

[Wildeybeast]

I wouldn't think it was meant to be an incentive to get or stay married, though I'm not really sure what it is supposed to be. There are plenty of married couples who are a complete waste of space and raise their children in a terrible way and couples who aren't married and are excellent parents, so marriage in and of itself is not a good thing. It's what you make of it that matters. Hey DC, how about extra funding for those people fostering kids instead? That would make a much bigger difference to fixing broken Britain.

[eldargal]

I approve of tax breaks for married couples but I find the assumption that seems to possibly underlie the idea, that divorce is unhealthy, extremely questionable. Divorce is unpleasant but sometimes necessary and less harmful than staying together even when children are involved. Especially so for women. Making divorce easier has saved millions of women over the decades from abusive husbands. Making couples more financially dependent on staying married could possibly result in women in a low income feel even more trapped and unable to leave an abusive relationship.

Research has shown that married couples are already financially better off than singles, so how about tax breaks for single parents?

[Wildeybeast]

I don't approve. What do married couples contribute to society that unmarried ones don't? Why do they deserve a tax break? I spend my days educating kids, trying to turn them into well rounded citizens, sometimes in spite of their married parents, yet because I'm single I don't get a tax break. How the hell is that fair? This is nothing more than a blatant appeal to the traditional tory heartland and DC showing that despite introducing gay marriage, he still holds to True Blue values.

[eldargal]

Married couples tend to be less reliant on welfare and cost the state less, a lot of studies have found marriage equality for example would benefit the national budget significantly by increasing the household wealth of gay couples and the same thing already happens with married couples. So giving them a small tax break isn't unreasonable when it comes to recognising that. There are also health benefits to being married which reduce their impact on the NHS.

[Wildeybeast]

Yes, but this has nothing to do with any of those things. I say again, why don't I get a tax break? I work in vital public sector, I have never claimed benefits, yet I lose out because I'm single. Utter nonsense.

[eldargal]

Well yes but that's another issue. I also approve of tax breaks for people who've never claimed benefits.:)

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I don't, because a lot of people end up unemployed through no fault of their own. Or disabled. Why should they be punished doubly by having to pay a de-facto higher rate of tax because they have to claim incapacity or unemployment? It's one of those ideas which feels like it might be fair, but isn't on examination.

"It's not fair" that people who never claim payments from the state have to pay a certain amount of tax, but then it's also not fair to lose your job because the company *****ed all its money up the wall, or because you got hit by a car.

The whole point of the taxation-funded welfare system is that everybody pays in, and everybody can take out as and when they need. It's non-judgemental, it's blind to who you are, it's just there for you. That can be changed, but then it becomes about something else - about making moral judgements about people's lifestyles or circumstances. If you're okay with that, then cool, but it's an issue.

I don't think married couples should get tax breaks just because they're married. I don't like two-tier systems in general. Besides, what about people who are in committed long-term relationships who have an objection to the institution of marriage?

[eldargal]

Well I see tax breaks as being a reward for non-claimants rather than a punishment for claimants. You make valid points when it comes to disabled people and non-married couples though.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I have to admit that I don't have a well thought-out position on this. I couldn't care less about throwing a pittance at us marrieds or not. I'd probably only blow my £100 on warhams anyway. But the discussion about the welfare state and what's "fair" or not is a heated one at the moment, and it's important to consider a lot of the angles that aren't well represented in the media/political debate.

For instance, the term "taxpayers" gets used a lot as if they're a separate category from people who claim on welfare. But of course they aren't. Everyone is a taxpayer. If you've ever bought anything, you've paid tax. If you've ever had a job, you've paid tax. And so on. Because of the way the modern State is formulated, to exist is to pay tax. It's more or less your only purpose in life these days; it's certainly the only aspect of your existence anyone in world governments seriously gives a **** about. So talking about "taxpayers" is meaningless - except as a tool to create an artificial division in people's minds. We're Deserving. We're the Elect. We're Taxpayers. Not Scroungers!

[Mr Mystery]

Mmmm. That's great....but.

I'm a single guy. With nothing in the wings to change that.

So given I'm not doing anything morally questionable according to the right wing (like you know, living with a partner, outside of marriage), I get butt****ed on two counts. 1. Council Tax. Sole occupant, gives me a pointless 20% off, whereas you know, multiple occupancy split that one charge however many ways (so if I shared a house with 3 others, we'd pay 25% each), and now those who are married, something I'm not adverse to in the future, pay less tax than me.

Yeah. Thanks a ****ing bunch for that. They're the ones with kids that need schooling etc, so how come I have to pay more than them toward that dubious privilege?

[Deadlift]

Wow, an extra £200 a year. Florida here I come.
It's a drop in the ocean of a family's annual expense and amounts to around £16.50 a month. Big deal and certainly nothing to get excited about. How about helping out with child care costs a bit more. That costs me and the mrs over £1000 a month.

[Wolfshade]

I'm not sure what I will do with my additional £200...

[Deadlift]

Plastic crack of course.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Celebrate marriage by spending your tax break on a block of thirty scantily clad murderesses.

[SuperDann]

I'm all for marriage, but like has been said £200 is a hardly anything over a year. Also, it does seem unfair to say "You're married, here's a discount. You're single/in a long-term relationship, no dice." There are better ways to promote marriage.

Still, £200 would help round out my Deathwing force quite nicely...

[Wolfshade]

Why does it?

[The Girl]

Is that the only benefit? Not knowing the tax codes in the UK, I have no idea how you'd file. In the states you can end up paying a higher rate if you're married - joint income, higher tax bracket. That bit of law has regularly been cited as one of the reasons why we're at a 31.1 marriage rate, which is an all time low and keeps going down as you reduce income. I seriously doubt that would change if people were offered $320/year, esp if it means that dual income equates to less or no social assistance.

[DarkLink]

Is this really their approach to fixing a broken society with such rampant divorce? Throw 2 weeks rent money at couples, probably just driving up the number of people marrying just to scrounge a bit more cash?

That happens in the military. There are massive incentives to get married. You get a pay raise, extra housing and separation allowances, you get to move out of the barracks (which are like college dorms, except the professors own you and will come and inspect your room) and get your own apartment or house, you don't have to go on duty as often, etc. Young servicemen will practically marry the first girl they pick up at a bar. The military has a very, very high divorce rate as a result.

[GravesDisease]

200 per annum is a drop in the ocean, however it is still more than a TV license. In that context its role has more of a guesture of good will quality rather than being a windfall.
The point of the benefit cut is so that conservatives are seen to be shown as pro marriage, after the CoE Gay marriage fiasco eroded their traditionalist voting base.

I have no idea why the left are all up in arms about it though, it strikes me as being typically contrarian in the face of not have anything else useful to say.

[Wolfshade]

Is that the only benefit? Not knowing the tax codes in the UK, I have no idea how you'd file. In the states you can end up paying a higher rate if you're married - joint income, higher tax bracket. That bit of law has regularly been cited as one of the reasons why we're at a 31.1 marriage rate, which is an all time low and keeps going down as you reduce income. I seriously doubt that would change if people were offered $320/year, esp if it means that dual income equates to less or no social assistance.

Each individual is taxed as an individual so even if your combined income do put you into one of the higher tax brackets it doesn't matter.
It is taken into account for benefits and tax credits, like child allowance and so on and so forht.

[The Girl]

Each individual is taxed as an individual so even if your combined income do put you into one of the higher tax brackets it doesn't matter.
It is taken into account for benefits and tax credits, like child allowance and so on and so forht.

*nods* We tend to do household income vs individual here. You can file separately if you are married, but it can be a pain to separate deductions and is sometimes more beneficial to file jointly thanks to health care expenses and kiddos. Woo US tax code :rolleyes:

[Denzark]

That happens in the military. There are massive incentives to get married. You get a pay raise, extra housing and separation allowances, you get to move out of the barracks (which are like college dorms, except the professors own you and will come and inspect your room) and get your own apartment or house, you don't have to go on duty as often, etc. Young servicemen will practically marry the first girl they pick up at a bar. The military has a very, very high divorce rate as a result.

Of course I'm not an expert on US military. But the divorce rate is also due to the little all expenses paid holidays to the Sandpit that come around with increasing regularity.

[ElectricPaladin]

Welcome to politicsland, where giving people money is the best way to show that you approve of what they're doing. That way when you come up for reelection, you can say "look at how much I support marriage - I gave married couples an extra three pounds a week! Go me?"

[Wildeybeast]

Yup. It's conference season here, so each party is making token gestures. First we had free school meals, then a promise to freeze energy prices (something which is completely unworkable and probably violates several EU competition laws) and now tax breaks for married couples. Nothing of any actual substance, and all curiously timed, given there won't be an election for another year and a half.

[Wolfshade]

I worked out that I would have been better off getting a single occupancy rate on my council tax, ah well time to be a wolfpack of one again I guess...

The thing is that the government has some ideals of what they think people should be doing they have two ways to encourage people to do it, they can either give incentives to encourage people, like with child benefits, or discinentives to discourage people, like fines/gaol time.