Tyranids 1500pts

[RGilbert26]

Afternoon all, just finished writing an army list for Tyranids where the purpose is to field as many Monstrous creatures as possible, here's what I came up with.

Hive Tyrant
- Wings
- Twin-linked Devourers

Tervigon

Termagant Brood (20)

Termagant Brood (20)

Harpy
- Twin-linked Heavy Venom Cannon

Carnifex
- Bio-plasma
- Mycetic Spore

Trygon
- Prime

Tyrannofex
- Rupture Cannon
- Desicator Larvae


Points come to 1500 exactly, I did have Scything Talons on the Tervigon but that would have put the total over 1500.

C&C welcome.

[RGilbert26]

No opinions?

[Bleak]

Harpies are worthless right now, get rid of it, you need two flyrants in case you face a hell turkey list.
Make tervigon troop to leave space.
Carnifex / tyranofex are way to expensive for what they do, caarnifex will get melted to fast or thunderhammer to death and tyranofex will never be cost efective unless your lucky on a land raider - trygon prime is far better or mawlock and another troop tervigon.
cheers ^^

[RGilbert26]

The Tervigon is already troop as I have at least one Termagant unit.

I'll have a jiggle of the list :P

[dwez]

Trygon Prime may not be worth it, it's Synapse isn't really needed for anything, you'd be better served taking the 40pts and putting 2 twin linked Devourers on the Carnifex for 30 - a no brainer - save 10 points, you lose 6 st5 shots but gain 12 twin linked st6. You could even add the remaining 10pts to the Spore Pod with twin-linked Deathspitters. Also drop the Bio-plasma.

There's other stuff but that's the issue that jumps out at me.

[RGilbert26]

Hmm, how about this?

Hive Tyrant
- Wings
- Twin-linked Devourers

Hive Tyrant
- Wings
- Twin-linked Devourers

Tervigon
- Scything Talons

Tervigon
- Scything Talons

Termagant Brood (20)

Termagant Brood (20)

Trygon
- Prime

Trygon
- Prime

[Bleak]

I like this one a lot better, from my experience (i play nids too) it will give you better results.
You should try this one and also try the 2 mawlock + malantai on a drop pod instead of the two trigons. You can deploy the mawlocks and bury them turn one, assuring that they come in on turn 2 leaving just malantai to chance. Malantai is very usefull vs tau and deamons :3

[Tynskel]

I think it is boring and misses all the flavors of playing bugs. i.e., lots of different bugs.

[Learn2Eel]

Hmm, how about this?

Hive Tyrant
- Wings
- Twin-linked Devourers

Hive Tyrant
- Wings
- Twin-linked Devourers

Tervigon
- Scything Talons

Tervigon
- Scything Talons

Termagant Brood (20)

Termagant Brood (20)

Trygon
- Prime

Trygon
- Prime

Just checking, the two Hive Tyrants have double brain-leech devourers, right?

In any case, I would honestly drop each Termagant brood down to ten and take toxin sacs, catalyst and onslaught on each Tervigon. This will make your spawned Termagants a lot more effective, and gives the Tervigon a 50% chance of rolling up a power like Iron Arm or Endurance, which are godly for Tyranids. The spare twenty points could go to toxin sacs on either Trygon Prime, if my math is correct. In this monster-heavy edition, toxin sacs are invaluable for the points, especially for a dedicated combat monster like a Trygon that absolutely has to win a melee when and if it gets there.

Otherwise, I like it, it is pretty safe and solid. Nothing too adventurous, but at 1500 points with Tyranids, it tends to be quite hard to fit much else in after you have the core of your army. If you eventually bump the army up to 1850, I would think of adding in the Doom of Malan'tai in a mycetic spore, and either some podding Zoanthropes, Hive Guard or Ymgarl Genestealers. On a standard board, this should mean that all or most of your army is in combat/enemy deployment zone by turn three at the latest.

[RGilbert26]

Each Flyrant has a twin-linked Devourer.

Why put toxin sacs on a monstrous creature, all of them are hitting on 2+ already?

By taking the two extra Pyschic powers does that allow me to swap them for biomancy powers?

It's 1500pts because that's what is played at the local GW, plus it's the Throne of Skulls pointage.

EDIT:

Removing 10 Termagants from each brood and adding what you suggested does use exactly 100pts.

I understand that Tervigons with Toxin Sacs will give it to its spawnings but not sure why a Trygon Prime would need them.

[daboarder]

2+ with re-rolls to wound is worth 5-10 pts, also means you can have a crack at other MC's without needing to smash.

More importantly however toxin sacs on a tervigon passes the buff to nearby termagaunt units.

[RGilbert26]

Ah fair enough, are the re-rolls to hit only?

[daboarder]

well on a trygon you would re-roll to hit due to double talons, and then re-roll to wound dues to poison against anything T6 or lower, against anything higher you wound on 4+ as opposed to 5+ or 6+

[RGilbert26]

Oh I see so if enemy toughness is equal or lower than your strength then poison attacks allow you to re-roll to wound.

[daboarder]

Oh I see so if enemy toughness is equal or lower than your strength then poison attacks allow you to re-roll to wound.

yup, on your regular to wound roll too, which is a huge buff from 5th.

[Learn2Eel]

Each Flyrant has a twin-linked Devourer.

Why put toxin sacs on a monstrous creature, all of them are hitting on 2+ already?

By taking the two extra Pyschic powers does that allow me to swap them for biomancy powers?

It's 1500pts because that's what is played at the local GW, plus it's the Throne of Skulls pointage.

EDIT:

Removing 10 Termagants from each brood and adding what you suggested does use exactly 100pts.

I understand that Tervigons with Toxin Sacs will give it to its spawnings but not sure why a Trygon Prime would need them.

Each Flyrant only has a single twin-linked Devourer? Hmm, ok I think this calls for a change. Just an FYI, the devourers you pay for on Tyranid monstrous creatures use the "Brain-Leech Devourers" profile, just in case you missed it, which pretty much doubles how good regular Devourers are, and more. Now, with Flyrants, you typically want two sets of brain-leech Devourers to really maximize their firepower against flyers, light vehicles and infantry. Twelve S6 twin-linked shots that force any Leadership tests taken for casualties against them at -1 is pretty nasty for only 30 points, particularly when a Tyrant or Carnifex averages nine hits with them. They will statistically glance a Rhino or similar 3 hull point, AV11 front and side vehicle to death, and thus are one of few methods for Tyranids to actually get First Blood. Of course, being over-aggressive with Flyrants is often a mistake, particularly for your mostly foot-based list, as you want them to be supported by the ground bugs when they eventually get close to the enemy.

To give each Flyrant the extra Devourer, I'm going to go against the grain here and recommend you drop Onslaught on each Tervigon. This way, you still have a guaranteed Feel No Pain power for the Tervigons which is still quite useful. What this does though is give your Flyrants so much extra firepower that will really boost their effectiveness.

Personally, in an army with two Flyrants and two Tervigons, I don't think the Prime upgrade is needed on the Trygons. Don't get me wrong, it is great for singling out characters, but often a Trygon wants to barrel through a squad in two turns, and a smart opponent or Chaos player can hold you up for longer through challenges. It would be great if most people still took power fists on squad sergeants, but it is rare nowadays that such things occur. What you could do, if you wanted to give it a try, is drop the Scything Talons on the Tervigons (they really don't need them) as well as the Prime upgrade on both Trygons, and instead take a pair of Biovores. And trust me, I think that change, plus taking the extra brain-leech Devourers on each Flyrant, would make for a much better balanced army list overall. Biovores give you an extra home scoring unit for Big Guns Never Tire, are easy to hide, and absolutely eviscerate any Infantry with 4+ armour - Fire Warriors, Dire Avengers and so on all fear Biovores more than almost any other unit!

With that in mind, your list should come out like this;

HQ
Hive Tyrant w/ wings, two twin-linked brain-leech devourers
Hive Tyrant w/ wings, two twin-linked brain-leech devourers

Troops
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, catalyst
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, catalyst
Termagants (10)
Termagants (10)

Heavy Support
Trygon w/ toxin sacs
Trygon w/ toxin sacs
Biovores (2)

1500 on the dot!

As far as Toxin Sacs go, as daboarder says, they really benefit monsters now, particularly when there are so many more monstrous creatures running around in the meta now. If you play competitively, you can expect Riptides, Tervigons, Wraithknights, Daemon Princes, Greater Daemons and so on to be around. Against all of them, paying 10 points for Toxin Sacs is simply invaluable. For Trygons in particular, it really maximises their damage output; considering that they can be shot down very quickly by top lists in 6th Edition, you want to make sure not to spend too many points on them (i.e. Prime upgrade when you are already stacked for Synapse) but also that they hit as hard as they can. A Trygon without Toxin Sacs won't worry a Wraithknight; a Trygon with Toxin Sacs, however, will beat the heck out of one. In 5th Edition, taking them was a liability; now, they are mandatory on Tervigons (though they already were), probably Trygons and are worthwhile on any of the other monsters you expect to get into combat.

I hope this all helps!

[daboarder]

I'm of the opinion that while dual devourers are awesome, you probably shouldn't invest in them too heavily as its possible they will get gutted when the new book drops in the next couple of months. With that in mind may I suggest the solid LW BS and Scytal on one of those flyrants, and spend the extra points on more termagaunts.


edit: I agree with tynskel too, its a very very cut and dry list. If you want to make it less bland, drop one of the tervigons, you can get away with just one in 1500. Myself I run a pair in 1850.

[Learn2Eel]

I'm of the opinion that while dual devourers are awesome, you probably shouldn't invest in them too heavily as its possible they will get gutted when the new book drops in the next couple of months. With that in mind may I suggest the solid LW BS and Scytal on one of those flyrants, and spend the extra points on more termagaunts.


edit: I agree with tynskel too, its a very very cut and dry list. If you want to make it less bland, drop one of the tervigons, you can get away with just one in 1500. Myself I run a pair in 1850.

Yeah I'm guessing a lot of Tyranid players are shivering about that at the moment, as GW tend not to allow you to take stuff your kit doesn't support. It would be odd though as I've seen at least a few armies in White Dwarf that the editors own have Flyrants with those fleshborer hives used as brainleech devourers. We can always hope against hope!

That's a good point. Two Tervigons is pushing it at 1500, particularly backed by two Flyrants and two Trygons. You'll find most opponents very hard pressed to deal with it well, particularly if one or both of the Flyrants gets Endurance or Iron Arm.

[daboarder]

Or if they can deal with it then your in trouble. grab say 20 FC hormagaunts, lets you handly run down and kill transports.

[RGilbert26]

Just to point out that Hive Tyrants can only take twin-linked devourers with brain-leech worms, so not sure why there's an issue with me just putting twin-linked devourers. I thought it was obvious?

I'm going to field the updated army list I made and see how it goes, I can always buy extra units and play around with it, see what changes.

Am I right in thinking that I can swap any of the powers that I bought for the Tervigon for one from biomancy?

[daboarder]

you either run with the 2 from the book, or you roll twice on the charts of your choice.

[RGilbert26]

Ah so it's either not keep one swap one.

[daboarder]

yup

[dwez]

I would just like to make a shout out for Tervigon's with crushing claws. If you're lucky enough to get Warp Speed on the Biomancy chart it'll Smash anything to pieces... particularly vehicles. When you Smash you halve your base attacks - 3 which is 1.5 and round up = 2. +1 for charging, +D3 for Warp Speed and +D3 for Crushing Claws a potential 9 Smash attacks. I think it's my favourite model/unit.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nYOtKzvPoN0/Uc8rU9M3fBI/AAAAAAAAJSA/WeXOssdyz2M/w521-h695-no/P1070580.JPG

[Anggul]

Yup, Crushing Claws are great for Smashing Tervigons, even without Warp Speed.

...excuse me while I go and stick Nigel Thornberry's face on a Tervigon.

[RGilbert26]

I need to find 50 points in order to equip both Tervigons with them. Taking one power away and Scything Talons only gives me 20 points. Instead of that if I drop both Prime upgrades that gives me 80 points, removing Scything Talons gives me 90 points, add crushing claws to both Tervigons and I have 40 points left. Using the 40 points I can give both Tyrants regeneration :P

[daboarder]

Were kinda just brainstorming here mate. They are all fairly valid ideas its up to you to pick what you like.

If it hasnt been mention may I suggest NOT taking a pair of trygon primes at 1500 with a paor of flyrants and tervigons with c atalyst and dominion yoi done need the synapse. That saves 80pts right there. I wouldnt go crushing claws on the tervigons either.

My personal design philosophy with nids is to let the base stats do the work for you in most cases.

As such I recomend a good hormagaunt horde. Fast little blighters those things.

After hearing 3 pages of advice could you let us know what parts you like and we can startpputting it together

[RGilbert26]

Heh I like most of it :P

80 points only gets me 10 Hormagaunts and with a few spare, what else could I use the 80 points for?

[daboarder]

How bout something like

Tyrant, wings, regen, LWBS, Scytal (this is your warlord)

Tyrant, wings, double Brainleech (AA)

Zoanx2 (great utility, keep their power when facing armour, roll telepathy when facing infantry lists)

tervigon, CClaws, catalyst, onslaught (idea is to by 3 rolls on biomancy) toxin sacs cluster spines

terms x10

terms x10

Horms (toxin) x18 (kill enemy MC's and hard units dead

Trygon

Trygon

[Learn2Eel]

Just to point out that Hive Tyrants can only take twin-linked devourers with brain-leech worms, so not sure why there's an issue with me just putting twin-linked devourers. I thought it was obvious?

I'm going to field the updated army list I made and see how it goes, I can always buy extra units and play around with it, see what changes.

Am I right in thinking that I can swap any of the powers that I bought for the Tervigon for one from biomancy?

Was just making sure you knew the Hive Tyrants used brain-leech devourers, I've seen other Tyranid players make the same mistake is all!

[Dave Mcturk]

don't leave home without your hive guard ? ....

[RGilbert26]

Point of the list is to get as many MCs as you can, while still making it good.

Otherwise I'd try and field Hive Guard and Zoanthropes.