Hallucination Effects on Deathwing Knights

[40kGamer]

Very specific question:

Hallucination is successfully cast on Deathwing Knights and you get the result where they attack themselves. If they have not yet activated their Mace's in the game would they use the once per game activation to attack themselves with their best weapon?

[biffster666]

I don't have my rule book with me, but I think your example falls under the 'no effect' because the Dreadknight can't attack itself.

It does make me think back to those 'Why do you keep hitting yourself?' moments with one of my younger brothers though :D

[Tynskel]

I don't have my rule book with me, but I think your example falls under the 'no effect' because the Dreadknight can't attack itself.

It does make me think back to those 'Why do you keep hitting yourself?' moments with one of my younger brothers though :D

Deathwing Knights, not Dreadknight. One is in the Dark Angels book, the other is in the Grey Knights.

[biffster666]

I was chuckling at the memory more than thinking about your question, totally my bad 40kgamer :D My DA codex is another book I didn't bring with me , but does Hallucination make any reference to activating powers/weapons/items abilities? I don't think so (don't have the rule book with me though), so I'd say they'd just bash each other with standard CC attacks. Hopefully someone with access to their rules/codex will be able to provide a more helpful response than Tynskel and I did dude.

[Katharon]

biffster666, don't take everything so personally. You were incorrect, so just take it and move on.

As for the Hallucination effect: no, they are not able to activate a special ability to hit themselves. Instead they would simply hit each other with their power mauls/maces.

[Hal]

I don't agree with you guys...
If the targeted unit has a cc weapon with special abilities you should be able to activate them.. Also, even one-model units like dreadknighs, deamon princes, wraithknights etc. will hit themself..
For example a dreadknight is likely going to instant kill himself with his force weapon.

Just read the description: "Every model inflicts a single hit on his own unit, resolved at that models' own Strengths, but using the Strength bonuses, AP values and special rules of their most powerful close combat weapons."

[Mr.Pickelz]

Hallucination wold only be able to use the ability if its tied to the weapon. If the ability is tied to the unit, then no. IE:
Hammerhand is a Unit Psyker Power. Therefore, the ability would not force that power to be used.
Force Weapon's Activation is tied to each individual weapon. Therefore, they could be activated by the Hallucination power.

Something to note against Grey Knight Terminators/Paladins, is the inclusion of the Brotherhood Banner, as it allows the unit to "Auto-Pass" their force weapon tests.

[40kGamer]

I was chuckling at the memory more than thinking about your question, totally my bad 40kgamer :D

No worries mate. I do the same thing all the time. :p


"Every model inflicts a single hit on his own unit, resolved at that models' own Strengths, but using the Strength bonuses, AP values and special rules of their most powerful close combat weapons."

This is what trips me up. The activated weapon profile is their most powerful ccw but it seems odd to force them to use up their single use weapon. Poor Deathwing Knights... ;)


Force Weapon's Activation is tied to each individual weapon. Therefore, they could be activated by the Hallucination power.

Something to note against Grey Knight Terminators/Paladins, is the inclusion of the Brotherhood Banner, as it allows the unit to "Auto-Pass" their force weapon tests.

Hadn't encountered this with force weapons before. That is just nasty! :)

[Nabterayl]

Hallucination wold only be able to use the ability if its tied to the weapon. If the ability is tied to the unit, then no. IE:
Hammerhand is a Unit Psyker Power. Therefore, the ability would not force that power to be used.
Force Weapon's Activation is tied to each individual weapon. Therefore, they could be activated by the Hallucination power.
I concur. Since Smite Mode is a property of the Mace of Absolution itself, I see no reason why Hallucination couldn't force it to be used, just like it can force a force weapon activation.

[biffster666]

hhhmmm, that is a definite head scratcher for sure. Thanks for adding the power description Hal. I'm going to take a look at the FAQ's because I remember seeing Hallucination mentioned in one or more of them. I'm not sure I agree with the Force weapon example, because it has to be activated by the Psyker. It's not an ability the weapon has without the psyker 'charging' it. It would also depend on if the GK used all hs Warp charges before your turn because aren't they 'renewed' at the start of the players turn? I don't have my rule book with me so I can't confirm that. If it's not already, it's something that deserves a FAQ entry IMO.


biffster666, don't take everything so personally. You were incorrect, so just take it and move on.

Just because you say I took it personal...you know the rest, right? :D I made an error (a funny one IMO) and have no problem admitting that. The statement I made about Tynskel's and my posts up to that point was just that and 100% correct as well. 40kgamer understood that even if you didn't, so it's all good.

If I wanted to take a poke at Tynskel because I took his/her comment 'personal', I would have made some snarky comment about quoting a statement about himself/herself, or asked Tynskel how many 'I love me some me!' T-shirts he/she has. Just a suggestion, but you want to be careful about reading into things too much. Nice of you to respond to 40kgamers question as well though ;)

[keithsilva]

Q: If a unit of models that are Psykers and armed with force
weapons are affected by the You! You’re a Traitor! result of the
Hallucination psychic power from the Telepathy discipline, does
this force them to spend warp charge points (if they have any
available) and activate their force weapons for the hits they inflict
upon their own unit? (Reference section).
A: Yes.
If you are able to active the force weapon I see no reason why you can't active any other special ability, including the Smite Mode. Man that would suck to have to use your one time ability on yourself LOL, but the chances of that happening aren't that great LOL.

[biffster666]

hehe, just beat me to it posting that Keithsilva. Thanks though!

I still question if a single unit would hit itself though, still poking around the FAQ's looking for info on that. If someone has seen the question/answer in a FAQ before posting that info would be most appreciated!

[Tynskel]

I have 7 "I love me some" T-shirts.

1 for every day of the week...

[biffster666]

Just a quick edit Tyn so it's 'I love me some me!' and that's a total winner! I'm also a fan of 'You're going to love hating me!' and the one my own mother got me 'A team effort is a lot of people doing exactly what I say.' I was wearing that shirt when I was at the hospital with my father during his cancer treatment and a doctor got on the elevator with us and his comment was "Exactly". See Katharon? Tynskel is picking up what I'm throwing down :D

I'm still curious if a single model can be forced to attack itself if hit by Hallucination, anyone, Beuller????

[Hal]

I'm still curious if a single model can be forced to attack itself if hit by Hallucination, anyone, Beuller????

Sure, why not?
The power says "Every model inflicts a single hit on his own unit"..
For example you target a dreadknight. He is a single model unit and therefore inflicts a single hit upon his own unit (which is himself).
I don't really see a problem here cause the rule seems pretty clear. If the power was worded in a way that a model must hit another model, then it would not be allowed..

[40kGamer]

Thanks for all the great info everyone! I've been living on a steady diet of Divination in 6th but thought Telepathy would make an interesting alternative after playing a Daemon army with invisibility. Of course unfamiliar powers cause new questions! :)

On another note I have a ghastly pink T-shirt that says "Don't laugh this is your girlfriends shirt"... not as entertaining as the others posted here but it makes me stand out if I wear it to an event. :p

[biffster666]

Divination is meat and potatoes, Telepathy is a spicy meatball :D

I've seen that shirt before, very funny. I almost forgot 'The beatings will continue until morale improves!'

hhhmmm, I'm still not 100% sure on that single model unit Hal, but I'd totally let it fly until I see an example or FAQ entry that shows/states otherwise.

[Nabterayl]

According to page 81 of the Necron codex (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180057a_Necrons_v1.4_APRIL13.pdf), Mindshackle scarabs can cause a character involved in a challenge to hit himself, so I don't think there's any general principle that a model can't hit itself in close combat. I think that Hallucination can cause a model to hit itself.

[Tynskel]

You could imagine if you had a kilrathi mind worm crawling you, that you would try to slice it off... whoops, power weapon just chopped off my leg!

[biffster666]

According to page 81 of the Necron codex, Mindshackle scarabs can cause a character involved in a challenge to hit himself, so I don't think there's any general principle that a model can't hit itself in close combat. I think that Hallucination can cause a model to hit itself.

I'll buy that for a dollar!