Proxy/Count-As in Fantasy

[Katharon]

So, as I've posted before, I am interested in rebuilding my Empire army for WHFB. However, I'm on a tight budget and that budget get's eaten by the Imperial Guard from WH40K all the time -- and let's face it, if you had to fight Daemon Princes all day then you'd want a bigger budget for nifty gadgets too! This, coupled with my love of history (I've two degrees, BA and MA, in History and Ancient History respectively), leaves me with the tantalizing option offered by the nice folks over at Warlord games.

They have boxes of plastic 28mm minatures armed with the same kind of weaponry as any you'd find in the GW line of models. So long as everything looks exactly like its GW counterpart (ie a Roman swordsman *looks* the same as an Empire Swordsman) and is equipped the same as shown in the unit profile -- would you accept someone playing that kind of army across from you? Or would you stamp your feet, give a shout, and point towards the exit?

At the moment I'm up in the air about what kind of army I want to make, but I do know there will be lots of large core troop formations (lotta spearmen) and maybe a few volly guns (for which I will have to buy the GW model).

Thoughts?

[Kaptain Badrukk]

I would suggest that if you're going to do this kind of thing you try the "They're Estalian" or "They're Dogs of War" angle and then mix in some WFB bits to add some grimdark.
These are lovely minis, but I'd also check for scale alongside the WFB ones to see if they're going to look daft (because GW 25-28mm heroic is more like 28-30 in places).
All of that said, a well painted and converted army, that uses the minis well and where everything is clear in what it is and what it's used for should present no issues in a FLGS/Club. Obv be aware that GW purists, stores and events will be a no-go.

[Katharon]

Not a bad idea.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

The main thing to watch is scale, no matter how good your paint job or background is, if they're out of size for the other parts of your army/when viewed alongside other armies then they're going to look daft.

"Beware my army of roman hobbits!"

[Katharon]

Well, they are 28mm -- so they shouldn't be that mismatched in size. I'll do some investigation before I make the purchases, but I am curious to see how it'll work out.

Side note: Roman Hobbits sounds pretty awesome all by itself. lol


EDIT: Size Comparison between Games Workshop Models and several other miniature models. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcmUGIL2TVQ)

[Kaptain Badrukk]

It's all about heads and hands at this scale, weapons too. GW tend to make all 3 too big, which just makes them look too small on anything else trying to fit in.

[Katharon]

Badrukk, you should check out that video. Warlord games did a pretty good job.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

I will do when I'm not behind work's security settings.

[miteyheroes]

Perry Miniatures War of the Roses stuff is pretty damn Empire. As they're made by the same Perry Twins that sculpted so much of GW's stuff. The main difference is that Perry Miniatures is 40 models for £20...

The Infantry box makes halberdiers and archers; the Mercenaries box makes crossbowmen, handgunners and spearmen.

Slightly skinnier than GW, but otherwise damn nice. http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=11415 has a size comparison.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Perry Miniatures War of the Roses stuff is pretty damn Empire. As they're made by the same Perry Twins that sculpted so much of GW's stuff. The main difference is that Perry Miniatures is 40 models for £20...

The Infantry box makes halberdiers and archers; the Mercenaries box makes crossbowmen, handgunners and spearmen.

Slightly skinnier than GW, but otherwise damn nice. http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=11415 has a size comparison.

This is exactly what I mean actually. They are awesome models, but alongside a GW mini they are noticeably smaller.
And that's the rub, is that historical minis (while excellent) are rarely the right size and proportion for fantasy games.
It's not just GW, the majority of other companies also use "heroic" or "dodgy" scaling for a level of emphasis that would offend a historical purist.

[Katharon]

It's still not such of a gap between sizes that so long as the entire army is the same source (ie, all Warlord minis) and mounted on GW bases, it won't be that big a deal. Sure I most likely won't be able to play it in any official GW tournaments, but how many do they even do anymore (not to mention anywhere near me)? That being said, I'll of course always ask my opponents if they mind there being count-as models in my army.

[Wildeybeast]

If it's clear what's what, without much need for explanation before a game, I wouldn't have a problem in a casual game. I'm sure most people would say the same, though the people you should really ask would be those you play regularly with. If you are planning in playing in a club or store, check with them first. Whatever you do, don't go to play with non-GW models in a GW store. It's not cool and will result in them asking you to remove said models from the table. If you are planning on entering the tourney scene, check with organisers. GW tournaments are again a big no-no, other organisers will have their own rules.

[miteyheroes]

I've got a big pile of warlord celts, germanics and so on that I intend to use to make some really big Chaos Marauder blocks...

[Katharon]

I've got a big pile of warlord celts, germanics and so on that I intend to use to make some really big Chaos Marauder blocks...

That's a pretty awesome idea...and would look correct since the Warlord models are true scale.

[Cactus]

It's still not such of a gap between sizes that so long as the entire army is the same source (ie, all Warlord minis) and mounted on GW bases, it won't be that big a deal. Sure I most likely won't be able to play it in any official GW tournaments, but how many do they even do anymore (not to mention anywhere near me)? That being said, I'll of course always ask my opponents if they mind there being count-as models in my army.

I agree that as long as they are based properly, you should be fine.

Heck, my old night goblins are huge compared to the current night goblin range. Even GW isn't that consistent but it's not that big of a difference.

[Ben_S]

It seems that this is simply using third-party miniatures, not really proxying. I don't see why it would be a problem outside of a GW store/event, but do make sure you have the right base sizes.

[Katharon]

It seems that this is simply using third-party miniatures, not really proxying. I don't see why it would be a problem outside of a GW store/event, but do make sure you have the right base sizes.

Any time you use third-party models instead of GW models, it's proxy/count-as.