Football (Soccer)

[Learn2Eel]

In all my time here, I've not seen a single thread devoted to the world game. What blasphemy is this!?

Anyway, discuss :cool:

[DrLove42]

Probably something to do with few of us caring about a bunch of massively overpaid overrated primadonnas working for 90 minutes a week and expecting us to treat them like gods...

[Psychosplodge]

I think we had one, but I have a feeling it was suitably sarcasticly named.

[Wolfshade]

We had a nice thread about Carlos Tevez...http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?28478-Carlos-Tevez

[Learn2Eel]

Probably something to do with few of us caring about a bunch of massively overpaid overrated primadonnas working for 90 minutes a week and expecting us to treat them like gods...

A bit harsh, most footballers are your run of the mill sports player that are just trying to do their job. Contrary to belief, most football players aren't divers.
Realistically though, yes, most professional athletes are probably overpaid.

Anyway, I'm sure there would be a quite a few fans here too, it is easily the most popular sport in the world after all.


We had a nice thread about Carlos Tevez...http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?28478-Carlos-Tevez

Yeah but that was about Tevez, not the sport as a whole :)

To kick us off, some pretty good results in the EPL over the weekend. Some shockers with Liverpool and Newcastle both losing at home, and an entertaining game in the Manchester derby.

[Psychosplodge]

I hate sport...
Though I used to enjoy watching Ice hockey. And the olympics gave me an appreciation for female field hockey I previously lacked.
And I like to know the mighty blades are doing well,
but beyond that I'm, too busy gaming to pay attention to sport.

[Wolfshade]

Di Canio got fired.

[Aenir]

Am a Chicago Fire fan here (MLS) am frustrated with the mediocrity of the team. On the international note... Dos a cero to qualify for brazil! What a game!!

[Learn2Eel]

I hate sport...
Though I used to enjoy watching Ice hockey. And the olympics gave me an appreciation for female field hockey I previously lacked.
And I like to know the mighty blades are doing well,
but beyond that I'm, too busy gaming to pay attention to sport.

Fair enough, sport isn't for everyone. My LGS manager actively discourages any discussion of it in the store lol.


Di Canio got fired.

Yep. They seemed to be doing ok under him last season, which is unfortunate. I loved his passion, he's still a legend in my books.


Am a Chicago Fire fan here (MLS) am frustrated with the mediocrity of the team. On the international note... Dos a cero to qualify for brazil! What a game!!

Good stuff! When Australia qualified, my family and I were in a restaurant. When Kennedy scored the winning goal, my father started screaming and jumping up and down. All thirty people in the area thought he was barking mad!

[Aenir]

Fair enough, sport isn't for everyone. My LGS manager actively discourages any discussion of it in the store lol.



Yep. They seemed to be doing ok under him last season, which is unfortunate. I loved his passion, he's still a legend in my books.



Good stuff! When Australia qualified, my family and I were in a restaurant. When Kennedy scored the winning goal, my father started screaming and jumping up and down. All thirty people in the area thought he was barking mad!

Got a question for you, whats with the aussies moving to the AFC? I know oceania sucks but it was a guaranteed world cup practically! (Also your thoughts on it)

[Learn2Eel]

I think it comes down to South East Asia being our closest neighbours besides New Zealand, and also as we inhabit a continent consisting of too few countries to really have its own standing and such. There are both perks and downsides to being the only single-country continent in the world I guess!

[Aenir]

I think it comes down to South East Asia being our closest neighbours besides New Zealand, and also as we inhabit a continent consisting of too few countries to really have its own standing and such. There are both perks and downsides to being the only single-country continent in the world I guess!

Seems to me that its mainly negative... Flora and fauna want you dead, the land itself is mainly inhabitable. It seems what makes Austrailia is the people (or so ive gleaned from comments and such) that whole make fun of england, we are the ones here we have to stick together-ness is what makes it bearable (just an American's 2¢)

[Wolfshade]

I think it must be a good think. I know this is slightly off-topic, but there was a European Rugby championship called the 5-nations which consisted of France, Ireland, Wales, England and Scotland. Italy pushed to be included and the championship was eventually expanded to include them. The first couple of years they played they were a bit of joke team, but each year you would see an improvement in their performance. It was really pleasing to see. As a conseuqnce they have managed some impressive victories in the championship and their national league has prospered, as previously their best players went to France or Argentina. I can only imagine that playing against a better class of opposition results in a better national side and that must filter down and improve the national leagues.

[Aenir]

I think it must be a good think. I know this is slightly off-topic, but there was a European Rugby championship called the 5-nations which consisted of France, Ireland, Wales, England and Scotland. Italy pushed to be included and the championship was eventually expanded to include them. The first couple of years they played they were a bit of joke team, but each year you would see an improvement in their performance. It was really pleasing to see. As a conseuqnce they have managed some impressive victories in the championship and their national league has prospered, as previously their best players went to France or Argentina. I can only imagine that playing against a better class of opposition results in a better national side and that must filter down and improve the national leagues.

Which works if you are fighting clearly superior opposition...
In the AFC I see South Korea, Japan as the front runners, and the Aussies right there or slightly below. In terms of overall yeah its better than the samoas or what have you, but i still dont see it being that much more challenging as a whole... Maybe (pipe dream/ wild theory alert:) had Austrailia joined say Comenbol then they could have gotten a hell of a boost!

[Learn2Eel]

Seems to me that its mainly negative... Flora and fauna want you dead, the land itself is mainly inhabitable. It seems what makes Austrailia is the people (or so ive gleaned from comments and such) that whole make fun of england, we are the ones here we have to stick together-ness is what makes it bearable (just an American's 2¢)

Well we have one of the highest quality of life ratios in the world, and fewer natural disasters than most other countries. Australia is also a beautiful, beautiful place if you know where to look. It really depends on how much having arguably the most dangerous set of animals in the world worries you, I guess.

If you were raised here, you learn pretty quick what to avoid and where to look. Huntsmen spiders (about the size of a hand when fully grown, maybe slightly smaller) are very common in most houses, thankfully though I've yet to see a funnel web despite being in an area where they tend to pop up. Going on a beach means you need to keep your eyes peeled for blue-bottle jellyfish, though usually you won't encounter them too often. Be careful with putting your hands under rocks as you never know when a centipede is under there. Watch out for high grass due to snakes. Most of the snakes aren't too bad though, you can often find them and blue tongue lizards in backyards. Stay away from most rivers and lakes in outback areas as crocodiles will eat you whole. Don't get too far out to see as we do get a lot of sharks, stingrays, etc. Pretty basic survival tips for Australia; most of it won't apply too often, but it is pretty much a part of life. The real danger areas come in the outback from what I can tell, where you start to find brown snakes and taipans (the two deadliest snakes in the world), crocodiles and so on.


Back on topic, anyone else love this goal scored by Spurs' Paulinho? If you can't see it too clearly, you have a head-down from Lamela, a through ball from Holtby, a cross with the outside of the left foot from Lamela, and a back-heel tap-in from Paulinho. Beautiful technique by all three players.

https://i.minus.com/imxhYfcMdceKK.gif

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I'm a big Arsenal fan, so the last few years have been fairly painful. I'm feeling energised by Ozil and our start to the season, though, so who knows how this year will go? I think Flamini is going to be an important player this year, and obviously it's great to see Ramsey living up to his potential.

That's a nice goal, above. Shame it's Spurs.

[Learn2Eel]

A lot of people are forgetting Spurs are doing as well as Arsenal at the moment, everyone seems to have ballooned off about them after the NLD when realistically neither team wins that often away when playing against each other lately.
Spurs are going to be scary as hell when all of their first-team players are fit and starting (i.e. Lamela/Kaboul/etc), when this team gels I think everyone will really start to take notice of them.

I still can't believe Madrid let Ozil go. I'm guessing it had to do with financing the Bale deal, but still, why would you stack up an already over-loaded attacking trio with another 'Galactico' and let go of arguably the best attacking midfielder in the world? Lunacy, utter lunacy. Arsenal's midfield at full-strength though is more than a match for any in the world now.

[SotonShades]

Forgetting Spurs are doing as well as the Gooners? not in this house. My dad is a die-hard Spurs man. It is the only thing that trumps his hatred of garden gnomes. He always said that if anyone got him/put a gnome in our garden, he would set it up on the lawn and have a few swings of a golf club through it. Someone got him a gnome in a spurs kit for his 50th a few years back, and it has thus far managed to survive... just.

Back to the topic at hand; I enjoy watching a good game of football. I can't watch it week in week out, I just get bored. I have watched a few of the european games recently, and have really enjoyed watching top level teams play at the absolute top of their games. I really like the subtle differences in play style and seeing how they interact, but you just don't get that showing through in the championship/premier league as much. International matches often suffer the same thing, especially with England not getting their players together, away from their respective teams, for long enough to actually develop a proper style. I've often heard it said that if England could play at the pace of the Premier League, we'd be one of the hardest teams in the world to beat. Why aren't we? Because the players don't get enough time off from club duties to actually train together to build up the level of understanding and communication necessary. Shame really.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

They've had a good start to the season, invested the money from Bale well, and have a very good manager. I don't hate Spurs, as one might expect.

I do love beating them, though.

Real let Ozil go because they needed some money, and also because with Bale arriving, they had too many players for too few positions. They're on big wages at Madrid, way too big to just have them sitting on the bench, and Ozil needs to be playing in a World Cup year. Supposedly Real's manager was asked whether he'd prefer to keep Ozil or Di Maria; he said the latter, and they sold the former.

[Learn2Eel]

On England, it also comes down to the fact that they simply don't have the talent to match the top teams like Brazil and Spain, and that goes through all the grades too. At this point, I just can't see them winning a World Cup or anything of the sort any time soon.

La Liga is really entertaining if you ignore Real Madrid and Barcelona, a lot of people don't know that it is actually a much tighter league overall than the EPL. The gap between the teams just below the top two and the bottom teams generally is quite small, especially compared to the EPL.


They've had a good start to the season, invested the money from Bale well, and have a very good manager. I don't hate Spurs, as one might expect.

I do love beating them, though.

Real let Ozil go because they needed some money, and also because with Bale arriving, they had too many players for too few positions. They're on big wages at Madrid, way too big to just have them sitting on the bench, and Ozil needs to be playing in a World Cup year. Supposedly Real's manager was asked whether he'd prefer to keep Ozil or Di Maria; he said the latter, and they sold the former.

The funny thing is that apparently Spurs were going to spend 80 million plus regardless of Bale, according to quite a few greedy mouths their billionaire owner is finally throwing money at them. Personally I hope it doesn't mean they are turning into Chelsea/City, but what can you do. Having a net spend of zero despite bringing in Lamela/Eriksen/Soldado/Paulinho/Capoue/Chadli/Chiriches is pretty ridiculous. The word on the street is that Spurs are going to spend big in January, but who knows these days?

This is the problem though, when you look at their current first team, you notice that Ozil would walk into the team. Isco is great but he isn't anywhere near Ozil. A front four of Ronaldo/Ozil/Bale/Benzema can win the UCL and annihilate any team on their day. They should have moved Di Maria and Khedira on.

[Wolfshade]

Being the cynic that I am, it is because the EPL imports all of its players, rather than training home talent..

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Well, Real Madrid have never been exactly a rational entity. :)

When I get home I might talk a bit about English players, because it isn't as simple as "them foreigns".

[Learn2Eel]

Being the cynic that I am, it is because the EPL imports all of its players, rather than training home talent..

It's a good point, the best players in England over the past half a decade - perhaps longer - have mostly been foreign. Juan Mata, Robin Van Persie, Luis Suarez and Mesut Ozil pretty much have no equals amongst English players.

Lol agreed on Madrid, I wish they would stop with the Galacticos approach and keep players like Sneijder and Robben. They probably would have won a lot more titles over the past decade if they hadn't adopted that approach.

[Wolfshade]

Again I look to Ruby. In the premiership, the RFU decided that it could not force any club to restrict it's number of national players as that was descrimination and against EU working directives, instead it financially incentivise those that did 14 nationals in the starting 22 over the season. It has had some good results and has really encouraged the academy of bringing players from colts to pros.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

One of the main problems with English players is their massively inflated egos, salaries and transfer fees. The English game, and the players brought up with it, have a certain number of positive attributes - strength, speed, courage, lots of energy and aggression. Those can all be good things. But what we don't do, because we don't coach it properly from an early age (the numbers of qualified coaches in England are way lower than the other footballing powerhouses), those players tend to lack in technical skill, the mental ability to see and consider an action, like a pass, and other positive technical qualities.

What this means is that top-level football teams aren't able to get some of the things they need - skill on the ball, speed of thought, good control - from English players, with a few honourable exceptions (Rooney, Lampard, Wilshere). Worse than that, those players, because they're English Superstars, command huge wages and massive transfer fees. So you're paying over the odds for a general skillset which you can get from anyone brought up in the English game. Look at the silly money Liverpool paid for Andy Carroll, Stuart Downing, and so on. None of them is a great player, kind of journeymen Englishmen, but they were being bought for fees of between twenty and thirty five million pounds, basically just because they're English.

Club managers don't need to give a **** about International teams. It's not their job. They live or die on their ability to build the very best teams. Arsenal for a while had a small budget, so we made good with a dual strategy of developing young English and British players - which is now bearing fruit, and we have a core of British players to rival any in the Premier League - supplemented by talented players from the Continent and beyond who didn't cost the earth.

So the problems as I see it are these: the poor state of coaching from playground football upwards, a culture of extreme wealth and the fetishization of technically lacklustre "English spirited" players driving up wages and fees, and the disconnect between the International and the club game, which means that the teams which are going to produce your players aren't necessarily interested, or incentivised, to do so.

Quotas might improve the numbers of English players, but they won't improve their quality. In the past we had leagues full of English players, but the national team was STILL ****. Remember that. In the 70s and 80s we had top leagues full of Englishmen, and the national team didn't win anything, barely even qualified for a bunch of the tournaments. It's not the foreigners; the foreigners are being bought because English players aren't good enough for the top level game. They're a symptom, not the cause, of the English game's malaise. If we want them to be, there needs to be massive investment of time and resources into a whole developmental infrastructure.

[Wolfshade]

If we compare and contrast England and Brazil

A lot of the best Brazillian players come from the streets, football isn't a pass time it is a way of life. Why? Because if you play every day and you are good enough you can go from being dirt poor, literally having concerns of where and when your next meal will be to having almost limitless wealth.

England the situation isn't like that.

Instant gratification I think is part of the issue, managers are sacked after 1 season, so they are forced to make short term selections to improve the team, that invariably means buying players in. People like Furgesson had that same pressure, but they also had a longevity so that youth systems can be put into place and reap the benefits of them. All the while having enough financial strength to buy anything they need to fill a short term gap.

Sorry Cappy I did make an some "assumed knowledge" the head (RFU) coach is also in charge of the national structure of the game the academies. In Italy because of the national development of the squad it necessitated a complete see-change in the structure and grass roots.

[Learn2Eel]

One of the main problems with English players is their massively inflated egos, salaries and transfer fees. The English game, and the players brought up with it, have a certain number of positive attributes - strength, speed, courage, lots of energy and aggression. Those can all be good things. But what we don't do, because we don't coach it properly from an early age (the numbers of qualified coaches in England are way lower than the other footballing powerhouses), those players tend to lack in technical skill, the mental ability to see and consider an action, like a pass, and other positive technical qualities.

What this means is that top-level football teams aren't able to get some of the things they need - skill on the ball, speed of thought, good control - from English players, with a few honourable exceptions (Rooney, Lampard, Wilshere). Worse than that, those players, because they're English Superstars, command huge wages and massive transfer fees. So you're paying over the odds for a general skillset which you can get from anyone brought up in the English game. Look at the silly money Liverpool paid for Andy Carroll, Stuart Downing, and so on. None of them is a great player, kind of journeymen Englishmen, but they were being bought for fees of between twenty and thirty five million pounds, basically just because they're English.

Club managers don't need to give a **** about International teams. It's not their job. They live or die on their ability to build the very best teams. Arsenal for a while had a small budget, so we made good with a dual strategy of developing young English and British players - which is now bearing fruit, and we have a core of British players to rival any in the Premier League - supplemented by talented players from the Continent and beyond who didn't cost the earth.

So the problems as I see it are these: the poor state of coaching from playground football upwards, a culture of extreme wealth and the fetishization of technically lacklustre "English spirited" players driving up wages and fees, and the disconnect between the International and the club game, which means that the teams which are going to produce your players aren't necessarily interested, or incentivised, to do so.

Quotas might improve the numbers of English players, but they won't improve their quality. In the past we had leagues full of English players, but the national team was STILL ****. Remember that. In the 70s and 80s we had top leagues full of Englishmen, and the national team didn't win anything, barely even qualified for a bunch of the tournaments. It's not the foreigners; the foreigners are being bought because English players aren't good enough for the top level game. They're a symptom, not the cause, of the English game's malaise. If we want them to be, there needs to be massive investment of time and resources into a whole developmental infrastructure.

Great post. Sums it all up really. I really can't see Spain/Germany/Brazil/etc's dominance dropping any time soon unfortunately.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

To be fair, Wolfshade, I very much like the idea of incentives for those teams that produce and play internationals. Really there should be more money for youth development anyway.

Instant gratification and the sheer amount of wealth in the Premier League is a huge problem if you care about Internationals.

I don't, though. Countries are fake.

[Psychosplodge]

Also don't the south american teams have an annual competition similar to the rugby six nations? So they get regular international competition?

[Wolfshade]

Also don't the south american teams have an annual competition similar to the rugby six nations? So they get regular international competition?

No?


America[edit source]
Americas Rugby Championship – Four franchised Canadian teams, the Argentina Jaguars, and a "USA Select XV" (effectively the USA A national team) North America 4 - Predecessor to the Americas Rugby Championship; featured franchise teams from the USA and Canada

Canadian Rugby Championship - Successor to the (now defunct) Rugby Canada Super League
Nacional de Clubes - Club competition in Argentina
Campeonato Brasileiro de Rugby - Club competition in Brazil
Rugby Super League - USA club competition
Club Championship - Club competition in Uruguay

[Psychosplodge]

I meant in football?

[Wolfshade]

Copa América or more properly American Cup. Think it has been mentioned previously.

[Psychosplodge]

Ah.
I've only skim read it, I'll go back to mostly ignoring sport again now...

[Wildeybeast]

I think it must be a good think. I know this is slightly off-topic, but there was a European Rugby championship called the 5-nations which consisted of France, Ireland, Wales, England and Scotland. Italy pushed to be included and the championship was eventually expanded to include them. The first couple of years they played they were a bit of joke team, but each year you would see an improvement in their performance. It was really pleasing to see. As a conseuqnce they have managed some impressive victories in the championship and their national league has prospered, as previously their best players went to France or Argentina. I can only imagine that playing against a better class of opposition results in a better national side and that must filter down and improve the national leagues.

I thought the Italians were included because the French had a mard about not getting enough money or something else suitably trivial and typically Gallic and so pulled out for a while? Or is that just my Francophobia making stuff up?

Also, I like football, hooray for the football thread. My team is Liverpool, even though I am from Derby. I forget why. Probably because Derby County are pants. Though one could also make that argument for Liverpool.

[Learn2Eel]

Spurs are up to 20 goals scored and 1 conceded for the season proper. I'm betting that latter number will change against Chelsea though!

Also, some big news coming out of Qatar. I wonder if FIFA are adamant they will stay there for 2022 now? But no, FIFA obviously won't care, they got paid enough not to :mad: Absolutely disgusting from all involved, except the poor victims; the corruption in FIFA, Qatar buying the bid, using slaves and caring little if they die. This sh*t shouldn't be associated with football, let alone even occur at all.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-cup-slaves


Dozens of Nepalese migrant labourers have died in Qatar in recent weeks and thousands more are enduring appalling labour abuses, a Guardian investigation has found, raising serious questions about Qatar's preparations to host the 2022 World Cup.


This summer, Nepalese workers died at a rate of almost one a day in Qatar, many of them young men who had sudden heart attacks. The investigation found evidence to suggest that thousands of Nepalese, who make up the single largest group of labourers in Qatar, face exploitation and abuses that amount to modern-day slavery, as defined by the International Labour Organisation, during a building binge paving the way for 2022.


According to documents obtained from the Nepalese embassy in Doha, at least 44 workers died between 4 June and 8 August. More than half died of heart attacks, heart failure or workplace accidents.


The investigation also reveals:
•Evidence of forced labour on a huge World Cup infrastructure project.
• Some Nepalese men have alleged that they have not been paid for months and have had their salaries retained to stop them running away.
• Some workers on other sites say employers routinely confiscate passports and refuse to issue ID cards, in effect reducing them to the status of illegal aliens.
• Some labourers say they have been denied access to free drinking water in the desert heat.
• About 30 Nepalese sought refuge at their embassy in Doha to escape the brutal conditions of their employment.


The allegations suggest a chain of exploitation leading from poor Nepalese villages to Qatari leaders. The overall picture is of one of the richest nations exploiting one of the poorest to get ready for the world's most popular sporting tournament.


"We'd like to leave, but the company won't let us," said one Nepalese migrant employed at Lusail City development, a $45bn (£28bn) city being built from scratch which will include the 90,000-seater stadium that will host the World Cup final. "I'm angry about how this company is treating us, but we're helpless. I regret coming here, but what to do? We were compelled to come just to make a living, but we've had no luck."


The body tasked with organising the World Cup, the Qatar 2022 Supreme Committee, told the Guardian that work had yet to begin on projects directly related to the World Cup. However, it said it was "deeply concerned with the allegations that have been made against certain contractors/sub-contractors working on Lusail City's construction site and considers this issue to be of the utmost seriousness". It added: "We have been informed that the relevant government authorities are conducting an investigation into the allegations."


The Guardian's investigation also found men throughout the wider Qatari construction industry sleeping 12 to a room in places and getting sick through repulsive conditions in filthy hostels. Some say they have been forced to work without pay and left begging for food.


"We were working on an empty stomach for 24 hours; 12 hours' work and then no food all night," said Ram Kumar Mahara, 27. "When I complained, my manager assaulted me, kicked me out of the labour camp I lived in and refused to pay me anything. I had to beg for food from other workers."


Almost all migrant workers have huge debts from Nepal, accrued in order to pay recruitment agents for their jobs. The obligation to repay these debts, combined with the non-payment of wages, confiscation of documents and inability of workers to leave their place of work, constitute forced labour, a form of modern-day slavery estimated to affect up to 21 million people across the globe. So entrenched is this exploitation that the Nepalese ambassador to Qatar, Maya Kumari Sharma, recently described the emirate as an "open jail".

Record of deaths in July 2013, from all causes, held by the Nepalese embassy in Doha. Photograph: /guardian.co.uk

"The evidence uncovered by the Guardian is clear proof of the use of systematic forced labour in Qatar," said Aidan McQuade, director of Anti-Slavery International, which was founded in 1839. "In fact, these working conditions and the astonishing number of deaths of vulnerable workers go beyond forced labour to the slavery of old where human beings were treated as objects. There is no longer a risk that the World Cup might be built on forced labour. It is already happening."


Qatar has the highest ratio of migrant workers to domestic population in the world: more than 90% of the workforce are immigrants and the country is expected to recruit up to 1.5 million more labourers to build the stadiums, roads, ports and hotels needed for the tournament. Nepalese account for about 40% of migrant labourers in Qatar. More than 100,000 Nepalese left for the emirate last year.


The murky system of recruitment brokers in Asia and labour contractors in Qatar leaves them vulnerable to exploitation. The supreme committee has insisted that decent labour standards will be set for all World Cup contracts, but underneath it a complex web of project managers, construction firms and labour suppliers, employment contractors and recruitment agents operate.


According to some estimates, Qatar will spend $100bn on infrastructure projects to support the World Cup. As well as nine state-of-the-art stadiums, the country has committed to $20bn worth of new roads, $4bn for a causeway connecting Qatar to Bahrain, $24bn for a high-speed rail network, and 55,000 hotel rooms to accommodate visiting fans and has almost completed a new airport.


The World Cup is part of an even bigger programme of construction in Qatar designed to remake the tiny desert kingdom over the next two decades. Qatar has yet to start building stadiums for 2022, but has embarked on the big infrastructure projects likesuch as Lusail City that, according to the US project managers, Parsons, "will play a major role during the 2022 Fifa World Cup". The British engineering company Halcrow, part of the CH2M Hill group, is a lead consultant on the Lusail project responsible for "infrastructure design and construction supervision". CH2M Hill was recently appointed the official programme management consultant to the supreme committee. It says it has a "zero tolerance policy for the use of forced labour and other human trafficking practices".


Halcrow said: "Our supervision role of specific construction packages ensures adherence to site contract regulation for health, safety and environment. The terms of employment of a contractor's labour force is not under our direct purview."


Some Nepalese working at Lusail City tell desperate stories. They are saddled with huge debts they are paying back at interest rates of up to 36%, yet say they are forced to work without pay.


"The company has kept two months' salary from each of us to stop us running away," said one man who gave his name as SBD and who works at the Lusail City marina. SBD said he was employed by a subcontractor that supplies labourers for the project. Some workers say their subcontrator has confiscated their passports and refused to issue the ID cards they are entitled to under Qatari law. "Our manager always promises he'll issue [our cards] 'next week'," added a scaffolder who said he had worked in Qatar for two years without being given an ID card.


Without official documentation, migrant workers are in effect reduced to the status of illegal aliens, often unable to leave their place of work without fear of arrest and not entitled to any legal protection. Under the state-run kafala sponsorship system, workers are also unable to change jobs or leave the country without their sponsor company's permission.


A third worker, who was equally reluctant to give his name for fear of reprisal, added: "We'd like to leave, but the company won't let us. If we run away, we become illegal and that makes it hard to find another job. The police could catch us at any time and send us back home. We can't get a resident permit if we leave."


Other workers said they were forced to work long hours in temperatures of up to 50C (122F) without access to drinking water.



Dalli Kahtri and her husband, Lil Man, hold photos of their sons, both of whom died while working as migrants in Malaysia and Qatar. Their younger son (foreground photo) died in Qatar from a heart attack, aged 20. Photograph: Peter Pattison/guardian.co.uk

The Qatari labour ministry said it had strict rules governing working in the heat, the provision of labour and the prompt payment of salaries.
"The ministry enforces this law through periodic inspections to ensure that workers have in fact received their wages in time. If a company does not comply with the law, the ministry applies penalties and refers the case to the judicial authorities."


Lusail Real Estate Company said: "Lusail City will not tolerate breaches of labour or health and safety law. We continually instruct our contractors and their subcontractors of our expectations and their contractual obligations to both us and individual employees. The Guardian have highlighted potentially illegal activities employed by one subcontractor. We take these allegations very seriously and have referred the allegations to the appropriate authorities for investigation. Based on this investigation, we will take appropriate action against any individual or company who has found to have broken the law or contract with us."


The workers' plight makes a mockery of concerns for the 2022 footballers.


"Everyone is talking about the effect of Qatar's extreme heat on a few hundred footballers," said Umesh Upadhyaya, general secretary of the General Federation of Nepalese Trade Unions. "But they are ignoring the hardships, blood and sweat of thousands of migrant workers, who will be building the World Cup stadiums in shifts that can last eight times the length of a football match."

[Wolfshade]

It is nothing new. When South Africa had the world cup, millions of R. were spent on building stadia. At the time the 2nd hub for Cape Town international airport was not finished, there was infrastructre projects that went nowhere highway over passes that stop in mid air, rolling black outs as there was not electricity to supply the city as an whole.

The Cape Towners hated it and saw it as a waste of funds, after all after the world cup the local football teams that would inherit these stadia would have difficulties even quarter filling them, with no idea of how to pay for their up keep.

[Wildeybeast]

I assumed the slave labour was part of the bid? How else were they going to offset the cost of building a weather machine to keep the place cool?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

FIFA is unutterably awful. One of the world's most corrupt and harmful non-governmental organisations.

[Wildeybeast]

Yep. It's the ultimate example of an old boys network and they control one the biggest businesses in the world.

[Psychosplodge]

Did anyone see the England match last night?
I got bored after 5 minutes cause I was hoping they were going to keep scoring a goal a minute like in the forest two mins :D
Think it finished eight nil in the end...
Amazing that the player that scored the first two couldn't get in the team under the previous manager...well maybe they should have sacked her earlier?

[Wolfshade]

There was an England match last night?

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah, it was on TV.
It was the team with the better legs, the ladies team :D

[Wolfshade]

Well a quick tour to BBC Sport Football page doesn't inform me about it, and I was of course in the pub last night.

[Psychosplodge]

Found it (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24274158).

[Wolfshade]

Surely that should be front page after all it is an international, oh I forget insituitionalised sexism.

[Wildeybeast]

Or a lack of interest by the general public. BBC has picked up live coverage and is doing a lot to raise the profile of women's football, so I don't see how they can possibly be accused of sexism in this regard.

[eldargal]

Or a lack of interest by the general public. BBC has picked up live coverage and is doing a lot to raise the profile of women's football, so I don't see how they can possibly be accused of sexism in this regard.

They have started doing that after it was pointed out that their coverage of womens sports was woeful.:) So credit to them for trying to remedy it. I can't find the statistics now but it was something like mens sports getting five times the coverage

[Mr Mystery]

What's up with Rooney's Spazz-Hat??

Is it the standard issue Window Licker headgear, or is it some kind of Lobot style brain enhancer?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

He's got a huge gash on his head.

Control yourself, please. I see you at the back.

[eldargal]

Did his brain try to escape then, to avoid continual humiliation?:p

[Wildeybeast]

They have started doing that after it was pointed out that their coverage of womens sports was woeful.:) So credit to them for trying to remedy it. I can't find the statistics now but it was something like mens sports getting five times the coverage

I think this has been discussed before somewhere, but it's a vicious circle. Women's sport coverage has been poor because women's sport has been of poor quality and little interest to the general public. It needed someone to take a punt and invest. Women's football has seen the FA restructure the league and men's clubs like Liverpool start to make significant investments, which has seen an improvement in the quality of the football played and thus increased coverage. There are still issues (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24078769) that need to be addressed though.

[Wolfshade]

If you remember last years RBS 6 Nations, as part of the weekend coverage they showed highlights of the womens games

[eldargal]

I think this has been discussed before somewhere, but it's a vicious circle. Women's sport coverage has been poor because women's sport has been of poor quality and little interest to the general public. It needed someone to take a punt and invest. Women's football has seen the FA restructure the league and men's clubs like Liverpool start to make significant investments, which has seen an improvement in the quality of the football played and thus increased coverage. There are still issues (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24078769) that need to be addressed though.
I'd like to talk about this further but it's more pertinent to the Feminist thread so I'll take it there.:)

[Psychosplodge]

I think this has been discussed before somewhere, but it's a vicious circle. Women's sport coverage has been poor because women's sport has been of poor quality and little interest to the general public. It needed someone to take a punt and invest. Women's football has seen the FA restructure the league and men's clubs like Liverpool start to make significant investments, which has seen an improvement in the quality of the football played and thus increased coverage. There are still issues (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24078769) that need to be addressed though.

That would be same league that relegated the competitive Doncaster ladies side(Doncaster Belles iirc), so a team from one of the premier league teams could have their spot. Typical FA corruption...

[Wildeybeast]

Yes and no. The super league is designed to increase the profile, competitiveness, quality and investment in women's football, and has already had success in that regard. It is deeply unfair that a team which has never finished in the relegation places was forced out of the top flight, but the FA set clear criteria for long term sustainability of members of the super league, criteria which Doncaster don't meet and man city do. If you want high quality, professional women's football, those criteria where the way to go. If the vision for the super league plays out, Doncaster would have been relegated before too long anyway as they would simply be unable to compete with the better resourced teams. Better they go now than go out of existence trying to keep up with the big boys. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, but that is the cutthroat nature if professional sport; there's little room for sentiment any more.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/relegation-scandal-takes-toll-on-doncaster-rovers-belles-8650856.html

[Psychosplodge]

They should be there solely on on the field merit.
And if/when they get relegated, they'd have deserved it.

[Wildeybeast]

But in professional football, very few teams are there on merit. Most are there for financial reasons, and the FA has been decried for failing to properly regulate finances in the men's game, leading to ridiculous situations where clubs are going out if business or playing their home games 50 miles from the city the club is in. So they took a responsible stance and demanded that the new women's league be run on something approaching a responsible fiscal basis. They were going to be damned either way.

[Psychosplodge]

Sounds like corruption to me.

[Wildeybeast]

It's global, multi-billion pound business run by an old boys network, so almost certainly.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Yyyyyyep.

Check out what's happening in Qatar at the moment for how much damage the global football industry does.

[Psychosplodge]

You mean that summer competition and the plan to disrupt all the world's best leagues to hold it mid season instead?

[Wolfshade]

It's only a bit of heat. Or alternatively play a game of four quarters...

[Wildeybeast]

Personally I think holding it in summer is an excellent idea. The stadiums will be air conditioned so the players will be fine whilst the heat will kill of all the drunken louts that follow England around. Hopefully that infernal band as well.

[Wildeybeast]

Lol. The second I finished writing that last post, the adds changed to ones offering me tickets for England's next international match. The internet knows all.

[Psychosplodge]

Personally I think holding it in summer is an excellent idea. The stadiums will be air conditioned so the players will be fine whilst the heat will kill of all the drunken louts that follow England around. Hopefully that infernal band as well.

Yes. Death to the freeloading wednesday band!

[Wildeybeast]

That's where they are from then. If I ever meet them I shall shove those instruments somewhere rather unpleasant.

[Psychosplodge]

You'd no doubt have many peoples support.

[Wolfshade]

We spoke of this previously, news night is just behind us some what.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24486694

[Mr Mystery]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45NOP1OA-EQ

Ball ball ball....footy footy footy....

[Deadlift]

That's a bit of a blast from the past. :D

[Mr Mystery]

Seemed appropriate :)

[Aenir]

More world cup qualifying is today! Have US v Jamaica Recording, am gonna watch Germany V Ireland

[Wildeybeast]

We have to watch our over-paid and over-rated clodhoppers struggle to beat the mighty Montenegro, a country which has only been in existence for 7 years and whose entire population is about the same of one our larger cities (yet sit only a point behind us in the table), in desperate battle to qualify for humiliation by nations who now how to play football. Sigh.

[Learn2Eel]

Even if you don't care about Spurs or football in general, just watch this video. I guarantee you will laugh!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJv0A5Pu32o

[Aenir]

bit of a necropost, but today was the world cup draw!!!


http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/52a2072beab8eab72468f756-1200-800/screen%20shot%202013-12-06%20at%2012.18.02%20pm.png

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/52a2070c69bedd1f0f5aaef0-1200-800/screen%20shot%202013-12-06%20at%2012.18.08%20pm.png

[Wildeybeast]

With the exception of Group B, England would have been better off in any other group. Looks like we are facing the embarrassment of not even getting out of the group stage this time round.

[Aenir]

With the exception of Group B, England would have been better off in any other group. Looks like we are facing the embarrassment of not even getting out of the group stage this time round.

Group G.

[Aenir]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/12/world-cup-group-draw-united-states/


heh :)


Groups F and C don't seem too bad

B and G are horrible!

[Wolfshade]

3sided football:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25852634

[Psychosplodge]

Saw that this morning on TV.
Seems really weird.

[Wolfshade]

It reminds me of a football version of the game of thrones board game.

[Psychosplodge]

Not seen that.
What next? a fourway on an octagonal pitch?

[Wolfshade]

You should give it a go, it can be quite quite brutal.

[Psychosplodge]

Sounds too much like exercise to me.

[Psychosplodge]

Excuse the source.

FA Cup replay commentary. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/feb/04/fulham-v-sheffield-united-fa-cup-mbm)

Read it from the seventieth minute :D

[Wolfshade]

He sounded like he was enjoying the game.

[Psychosplodge]

I think they were a bit harsh on the mighty Blades, considering they held off a the worst team in the premiership for two hours:), after losing to crewe :(

[Wolfshade]

It seemed more of a case the fulham should have done better. But both teams bieng at the bottom (or near bottom) of their respective tables extra games is jsut what you don't need.

[Psychosplodge]

True, but it's the closest to glory we'll get :D

[Wolfshade]

That's not true, they had the honour of me sitting in their stadium doing my astro finals and some other ones.

[Psychosplodge]

This season?
Are you sure you're thinking right stadium? I know they have a lot of exams at the stadium of rust.
Didn't know they had them at Bramall Lane as well.

[Wolfshade]

Both are used both by Uni and the other one