Drop Pods, Passengers, and Interceptor.

[Mr Mystery]

Now I don't come in here often, so be gentle. Also posting from work, so don't have rulebook to hand. Apologise if this is explicitly covered within the rules!

Question arose in another thread.

Drop Pod enters play, naturally from Reserve. Drop Pod contains Sternguard, who of course deploy from the Drop Pod as soon as it's final position is determined.

But, opponent has an interceptor weapon (or more, I'm not fussy). Let's say that as per original inspiration, it's a pie plate toting Riptide, with the interceptor upgrade.

Can the pie plate flatten the troops, or would the shot have to be resolved once the final position of the Drop Pod is determined, but before the passengers compulsory disembark?

Would the Sternguard themselves be a valid interceptor target if for whatever reason you chose not to dakka up the Drop Pod?

[FlyerMM]

Interceptor shots are not fired until the end of the enemy movement phase. So you would be able to fire at the disembarked unit.

[Mr Mystery]

Now this is where it gets iffy...

Whilst you could certainly *hit* the Sternguard with a template, as they did not in fact deep strike, I don't believe you could target them specifically. Thus non-template interceptor couldn't do owt to the Sternguard, as all that squad has done is disembark from their transport.

[Maelstorm]

Hmmm... Never thought of it like that.

Along the same line - would it then indicate Interceptor works against troops anytime they disembark from a transport? :eek:

Yep, at work - no book in hand....

[Mr Mystery]

Depends on the wording.

Various transports can of course deep strike, but to the best of my knowledge, the Drop Pod is the only one with compulsory disembarkation.

And I would argue (remember, no rule book currently to hand is a strong caveat!) that transported units have simply not arrived or deployed by deep strike.

[Patrick Boyle]

Hmmm... Never thought of it like that.

Along the same line - would it then indicate Interceptor works against troops anytime they disembark from a transport? :eek:

Yep, at work - no book in hand....

No, no it doesn't at all. The unit in a drop pod is in reserves with the drop pod until the pod arrives, in the same way that a unit embarked in a rhino that's on the table isn't in reserves, they're on the table inside the Rhino. Trying to argue that a unit in a Drop Pod never actually arrived from reserves is silly.

Interceptor fire occurs at the end of the opposing player's movement phase. By this time the pod and the unit inside, which both arrived from reserves, are on the table and are valid targets for interceptor fire.

I thought there was an FAQ on this specifically relating to Interceptor, but this one from the Grey Knights FAQ does clearly state that the units that disembark from drop pods and mycetic spores count as arriving from reserves

Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or Mycetic Spore,
count as arriving from reserve for Inquisitor Coteaz’sI’ve Been
Expecting You special rule? (p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit will be
able to fire once at each unit.

[Nabterayl]

You're right that the key is whether the sternguard deep struck or not, but they actually did. Consider the following quote from page 36:


In the Movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they are in one.

If you think about that for a moment, you will see that there is no way to construe it except that the passengers in a deep striking Transport vehicle are in fact "deep striking units." This question is addressed again in the Grey Knights FAQ, which asks whether the passengers of a deep striking Transport count as arriving from reserve:


Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule? (p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit will be able to fire once at each unit.

[Patrick Boyle]

You're right that the key is whether the sternguard deep struck or not, but they actually did. Consider the following quote from page 36:


In the Movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they are in one.

If you think about that for a moment, you will see that there is no way to construe it except that the passengers in a deep striking Transport vehicle are in fact "deep striking units." This question is addressed again in the Grey Knights FAQ, which asks whether the passengers of a deep striking Transport count as arriving from reserve:


Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule? (p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit will be able to fire once at each unit.

Deep Strike isn't the relevant part though, it's units arriving from reserves, regardless of method, that Interceptor lets you shoot. You couldn't, say, use Interceptor against a unit that made use of Gate of Infinity to Deep Strike in the movement phase, because they didn't arrive from reserves.

But that's all just to clarify, because we clearly agree that yes, you can Interceptor a unit that disembarked from a drop pod at the end of the movement phase they arrived in.

[Mr Mystery]

Nice! Thanks for the clarification and references.

Whilst I'm sure some would dispute the Coteaz one, because its not Interceptor, Nab's first one clears up that both elements (pod and squad) qualify as deep striking. Thus pod and squad are both Interceptor triggers.

[Phototoxin]

I'd argue the pod deep strikes, not the dudes inside it. Also coteaz can shoot at EACH target as mentioned, interceptor can only shoot at 1 usually. Of course if jump pack marines deep strike then by all means intercept them. That is the purpose of the drop pod. Of course if you blow up the drop pod, it's in the players own turn so I would imagine that the stern-guard die horribly similar to skimmers being immobilised in their own turn. (not sure on that one though)

[Nabterayl]

I'd argue the pod deep strikes, not the dudes inside it.
How do you square that with page 36? The Deep Strike rules state that a "deep striking unit" cannot move on the turn they arrive, other than to disembark from a transport. That means the "deep striking unit" must have been in the transport before arriving, which means the transport must also have Deep Struck. Which means that anybody in a Deep Striking transport must be a "deep striking unit."

EDIT: The point about I've Been Expecting You is not how many units Coteaz gets to shoot at. It's that the ability only applies to units that have arrived from reserve (like Interceptor). The FAQ asks, is a unit that disembarks from a drop pod considered to have "arrived from reserve." The FAQ says yes. Interceptor asks the exact same question - it doesn't let you shoot at units that Deep Strike, only units that arrived from reserve (as Patrick points out, most of the time you can't Deep Strike without arriving from reserve, but there are a few exceptions).

[Mr Mystery]

I'd agree page 36 is pretty cut and dried.

If you're in a transport which deep strikes and you disembark that turn, then the disembarking unit also counts as a deep strike.

[Patrick Boyle]

But again, it doesn't even matter if they used Deep Strike, what matters for Interceptor is if they arrived via reserves, which as per the Coteaz FAQ, a unit disembarking from a drop pod arrived from reserves. That they also count as having used Deep Strike rules is irrelevant to Interceptor.

[Mr Mystery]

Page 124.

Units in a dedicated transport held in reserve are a single unit. So that seems fairly conclusive.

If its not a dedicated transport, you declare which unit (if any) is embarked, and they arrive together.

So on balance, I'm satisfied any unit in a deep striking transport counts as deep striking for all relevant purposes.

Only difference being you have to disembark from a Drop Pod upon arrival.

Upside is the Interceptor would still have to nominate a single unit to target, so squad or pod, not both. Though again templates of any stripe could of course **** both units in a single shot

[Maelstorm]

Page 124.

Units in a dedicated transport held in reserve are a single unit. So that seems fairly conclusive.

If its not a dedicated transport, you declare which unit (if any) is embarked, and they arrive together.

So on balance, I'm satisfied any unit in a deep striking transport counts as deep striking for all relevant purposes.

Only difference being you have to disembark from a Drop Pod upon arrival.

Upside is the Interceptor would still have to nominate a single unit to target, so squad or pod, not both. Though again templates of any stripe could of course **** both units in a single shot

Agreed...

[DarkLink]

Also, if the unit inside weren't deepstriking, they would be allowed to assault out of their open-topped transport.

[Tynskel]

zzzzZZZZzzzzZZZzzZZzZZzzzzz

I, uh, oh wait, we were talking about units deep striking together?
I'll just go back to sleep here...
ZzzzzZZzzZzzzZZZzzzz

[Denzark]

zzzzZZZZzzzzZZZzzZZzZZzzzzz

I, uh, oh wait, we were talking about units deep striking together?
I'll just go back to sleep here...
ZzzzzZZzzZzzzZZZzzzz

Do that, you can't type snarky comments when you are comatose.

[DarkLink]

Shall we discuss how this works with Combat Squads thrown in the mix;)?

[Nabterayl]

Look, if we aren't just going to jump straight to strategic vs. tactical deep striking, I'm out.

[biffster666]

Shall we discuss how this works with Combat Squads thrown in the mix?

Zing! Well played sir.

From a first blood stand point I'd be hitting that pod everytime with the IL I love so much. You're such a good IL, yes you are!!! First blood when your opponent goes first = priceless!

[Mr Mystery]

Shall we discuss how this works with Combat Squads thrown in the mix;)?

Well that seems relatively straight forward. Combat Squad decision is made upon disembarkation. Therefore a single drop pod can present three separate, valid Interceptor targets.

[DarkLink]

I was joking, ask Tynskel;).

[Patrick Boyle]

Well that seems relatively straight forward. Combat Squad decision is made upon disembarkation. Therefore a single drop pod can present three separate, valid Interceptor targets.

Not since 6th edition. As of the very first Codex Space Marines(and all others I'd assume) FAQs last summer, and now official in both DA and C:SM books, all Combat Squad decisions are made before determining warlord traits. They just granted the ability for two Combat Squads from the same original squad to embark in the same transport. No more waiting to see how your opponent deploys to decide if you're going to combat squad on the drop.

Everything else you said is right though.

[Tynskel]

I was joking, ask Tynskel;).

zZzzZzzzZZz ::snort:: ::snort:: zzzzZZzzzzz