Faeit: Epic 40k to return in 2014

[eldargal]

From Faeit:

GW will bring back Specialist Games gradually with beginning in the 3th Quarter 2014.
-First Game will be Epic in July or August 2014
-There will be no individual model Boxes or Blister, only Game Sets and possibly "Expansions"
-Sets remain permanent in assortment
-Epic Game Set might feature Space Marines vs. Orks, there will be Sets for Imperial Guard, Eldar and Chaos

Sceptical, I always heard Epic was one of the poorer selling SGs. I suppose that may be wrong but with no cross over to 40k like the other and with GW over-producing Dreadfleet I'm not sure they would do this. Wait and see I guess.

[Mr Mystery]

Hmmmm....

It's possible, I guess. With set armies, you just produce x amount, and produce more when that sells through.

But would they sell enough to cover production costs? I don't know, but I have to say despite no evidence one way or other, I'm dubious.

Plus, it's from Faeit, the rumour accumulator, and as such the veracity has to be taken with a strong pinch of salt.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

TBH epic had been dead or dying for years in store, not as bad as poor old INQ, but bad.
It does have a strong (if small) community though, so who knows.
Personally I'd like GW to try something NEW, like dreadfleet.
Which wasn't very successful, but was a good game.

[pauljc]

I want BloodBowl back, with sexy new miniatures!

[LostInTheDark]

TBH epic had been dead or dying for years in store, not as bad as poor old INQ, but bad.
It does have a strong (if small) community though, so who knows.
Personally I'd like GW to try something NEW, like dreadfleet.
Which wasn't very successful, but was a good game.

Epic was my favourite game when I started my hobby journey and I still have my Eldar Titans tucked away somewhere, but I'm with you, if there is development time to spare I hope GW does something new.

Or if not totally new, then at least something that is supportable such as a 40k skirmish game

[Psychosplodge]

Maybe something just Titan based?
Along the same lines of dreadfleet.
Though probably just wishlisting considering how they've essentially scrapped specialist games...

[LostInTheDark]

Maybe something just Titan based?
Along the same lines of dreadfleet.
Though probably just wishlisting considering how they've essentially scrapped specialist games...



Maybe a skirmish game with Titans like the original Adeptus Titanicus? I'd be buying that! Nothing wrong with a bit wishlisting :)

[Psychosplodge]

TBH epic had been dead or dying for years in store, not as bad as poor old INQ, but bad.
It does have a strong (if small) community though, so who knows.
Personally I'd like GW to try something NEW, like dreadfleet.
Which wasn't very successful, but was a good game.

Epic had a big following in one of my local stores till it was banned, I'm assuming by GWHQ

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Epic had a big following in one of my local stores till it was banned, I'm assuming by GWHQ
GWHQ made the call to move specialist games to bunkers only about 3-4 years ago now. It was good for the stores (was working in one at the time and vets just became a much nicer place to be), but the specialist gamers got sent elsewhere.

We're near a bunker (6miles) so it was no biggie, but the stores without that had to upset a lot of people.
People who, if our store was anything to go by at least, never bought anything and assumed that because they had been playing for ages and had bought all their models cheap during the lead sell-off they were entitled to special treatment and that they could get a way with murder.
Some of them were cool, and it was sad to see them go, but we also shotgunned 85% of our jerks and all but one of our "that-guys" in one fateful evening.
They removed them from bunkers a week or so before they killed support for them, and started closing bunkers too (including my local).

[StraightSilver]

I am very, very skeptical of this. Also a bit of a coincidence that this rumour appears just after a thread went up on another forum, but you never know.

Specialist games no longer fit GWs business model. They are all about stock turn now so the only way this would happen would be as a complete boxed game with no additions, so like the end of year mystery boxes which have a short sales period.

I just don't see how one box could do epic any sort of justice without further support.

Dreadfleet and Space Hulk were self contained and didn't need further expansions, not sure you could do Epic without support from GW or FW.

The only specialist games I can think of that would fit the current model is either Necromunda or Inq28. There's no reason why the same rules couldn't be used for both, and there are rumours of Inq28 but I don't think that's happening any time soon to be honest.

Oops, and of course Blood Bowl, that fits the model too, although I think GW are simply too late as so many other companies now produce very similar games.

The other reason I am skeptical of Epic ever being re-released is because a lot of people at GW HQ consider Apocalypse to be it's successor. There simply isn't a need to re-release Epic as you can now fight those massive battles in 28mm.

I know that isn't the case, Epic and 40K are massively different but as far as GW is concerned why sell models in 6mm that you can make in 28mm.

Plus Epic was originally sold as a way to fight battles during the Horus Heresy, which FW now does.

The only way I see other specialist games being release is through licensing such as fantasy Flight games.

[Psychosplodge]

oh it was a lot longer ago than that.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Then your local GW manager likely just wanted rid of them.

[Psychosplodge]

Possibly, though the other locoal one stopped at the same time *shrugs*

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I love Epic but I agree with StraightSilver, I can't see this happening. I doubt it very much - I can see GW's logic for killing it off, and I say this being someone who collected every single army in Epic (including the forge world armies).

[Arkhan Land]

I think it'll fit right in with their line of new box games and card games. then maybe I can buy it at wal-mart too...

[Mr.Pickelz]

If GW does invest in SG's again, they will need more input than what Lotr or Hobbit got. The stand alone-ness of the starter set, or battleforce style boxes have to be designed in such a manner for a player to want to buy more. Sure a couple of thousand of people will buy the starter set, but then Ebay, and the like, will soon pop up with armies for sale, thus reducing GW's sustainability of the product. SG's are a niche within a niche, so GW needs to design this with a reliance factor involved.
If not, then GW will probably end up abandoning SG games as the revenue numbers aren't there.

Now, if GW were to shift more focus on SG's, since the 40k/Fantasy release schedule is speeding up, then I could see GW bringing back SG's. Slowly would probably best, because of the shift in focus that is needed. GW can't sustain a niche within a niche if it's customer base isn't interested or knowledgeable in the product. I personally would love to see an Ork Epic army come back and have it focus on the Third War of Armageddon. But, I can't see this coming to fruition with rumors of 9th ed. Fantasy looming about, army books for both games that still need updating, and model ranges that need some loving too (SoB's...)

SG's seem like a good short term income booster, and a good advertisement for Epic would be "Have you always wanted to play Warhammer 40K Apocalypse, but didn't have the space?"

[eldargal]

I can see SGs coming back in a 28mm format that ties in to the existing game. Something like the rumoured Inquisitor, Mordheim, Necromunda etc. Things which can stand alone but also tie into the main sets rather than something reliant solely on its own appeal.

[Psychosplodge]

There's always the possibility if they're doing all the armies in two years, they could have a year doing something else before spending a couple of years doing fantasy, and so on and so forth...

[mathhammer]

I love me some 6mm games, finally get a decent range on weapons.

But GW really needs to fix the scaling on their 6mm line.

[Bigred]

Super salt warnings on this one.

As a "mystery box" - maybe. But as a continually growing and supported system - I wouldn't hold your breath.

Some notes:

-It's an entirely different scale and requires a full line of new minis for all the factions. (so it doesn't leverage any existing GW minis).
-It's a niche of a niche and GW doesn't do small low volume games.
-Spartan Games exists - there is now existing competition where there was none before.
-Games Workshop cleared out and discontinued all their EPIC products.
-Forgeworld cleared out and discontinued all their EPIC products.

She was a fair lady, but her time is past. Let her lie in peace.

[ElectricPaladin]

So, I can see the arguments either way. What's obvious to me, overall, is that with 6th Edition GW is cleaning house. The new codices coming out are very clean, with balanced rules. Older kits are being cycled out and new kits introduced. In killing its official tournament scene and embracing "narrative" play, GW is taking a niche and holding it hard.

The question is, what does this mean for Specialist Games? Was their canceling part of the cleaning house? Or were the old kits just getting the boot to make room for the new?

I'm not sure its possible to say at this point.

[eldargal]

I'm probably in a minority but I never cared for 6mm scale. I don't think the models were nice enough compared to GWs regular range, except some of the big titans and vehicles.

[AirHorse]

The infantry was awful! But what can you expect from 6mm! I really liked the imperial guard models in the epic range.

Id be happy to see epic come back in some form but would prefer to see it in an easier to collect form!

Still rather see necromunda, gorkamorka etc come back first though :)

[Bigred]

Now 40K at 15mm (Flames of War scale) - That would be a visually amazing!

Here's something to get you all in the mood.

SO PRETTY!

48704871

[eldargal]

Agreed.

[deinol]

If they released Epic in several boxes, I would so buy a bunch of it. My biggest regret was never doing so back in the 90s when I had the chance.

[Rob-O]

Hmmm, 15mm? Warlord titan at 8 inches? yes please! :D

Now that would be EPIC!

[Wildeybeast]

So, I can see the arguments either way. What's obvious to me, overall, is that with 6th Edition GW is cleaning house. The new codices coming out are very clean, with balanced rules. Older kits are being cycled out and new kits introduced. In killing its official tournament scene and embracing "narrative" play, GW is taking a niche and holding it hard.

The question is, what does this mean for Specialist Games? Was their canceling part of the cleaning house? Or were the old kits just getting the boot to make room for the new?

I'm not sure its possible to say at this point.

Specialist games aren't dead. The rules are still available as free PDF's from GW. What they stopped doing was selling models. Except they didn't because that would imply people were buying them. No one bought SG models from GW. They haven't in years. Everyone who wants to play them already has the models and the rare new player can pick up fistfuls of models on Ebay for dirt cheap. GW had plenty of complaints from people when they stopped selling the models and they all said 'I was going to buy this and that and such and such'. But everyone was 'going to' and no one actually did. GW really had no choice, you can't continue to support a product no one buys and expect to remain in business very long.

[YorkNecromancer]

I loved Epic 2nd ed. LOVED IT.

If I was bringing it back, I'd do it as two mystery boxes. One would be Titanicus, pure Titan-On-Titan combat, and would function in the same way as Dreadfleet - a variety of Titans/Gargants of all sizes representing all races.

The second box would be pure tanks, Baneblade-on-Fellblade joy. Same idea; "character"-style tank units.

Both would be set in the Horus Heresy (like the original Epic games), both would be self-contained, and they would basically use more specialised, focused forms of 40k's Apocalypse rules.

Because the idea of Titans in 40K scale is still the dumbest thing ever. EVER.

[Netsurfer733]

If the models are of better quality? Absolutely.

[ElectricPaladin]

I would enjoy an Epic-scale game. I would enjoy a game with titans. What would I like best? A game with both.

[Thasarian]

I would buy it, i love epic miniatures! :D i still buy em on Ebay!

[MajorWesJanson]

I loved Epic 2nd ed. LOVED IT.

If I was bringing it back, I'd do it as two mystery boxes. One would be Titanicus, pure Titan-On-Titan combat, and would function in the same way as Dreadfleet - a variety of Titans/Gargants of all sizes representing all races.

I love the old style Titan combat with Hit locations and such. If they brought that back, with proper scaled models based on the current FW and GW 28mm models, I would get multiple boxes. Say 3" tall Warhounds and Stompas, 4.5" tall Reavers and gargants, and a single or pair of 6" tall warlord and great gargant.

[biffster666]

I'd check it out, but it would have to be pretty amazing for me to invest any time/money. Mini always seemed a more appropriate name than Epic.

[nathaneal246]

I love the old style Titan combat with Hit locations and such. If they brought that back, with proper scaled models based on the current FW and GW 28mm models, I would get multiple boxes. Say 3" tall Warhounds and Stompas, 4.5" tall Reavers and gargants, and a single or pair of 6" tall warlord and great gargant.

I would definitely invest in it if this is what they were to bring out!

[clively]

I never had an interest at that scale. I think 28mm is about right. Large enough to have a good level of detail, small enough to transport.

The only thing I'm interested in ( beyond regular 40k and apoc) is BFG. However the rules were a mess with no clear book or PDF that could possibly be considered current. So I didn't buy the models.

[ElectricPaladin]

I never had an interest at that scale. I think 28mm is about right. Large enough to have a good level of detail, small enough to transport.

The only thing I'm interested in ( beyond regular 40k and apoc) is BFG. However the rules were a mess with no clear book or PDF that could possibly be considered current. So I didn't buy the models.

A new BFG would have to be a really excellent game. Great resculpts of the old models, lots of factions, tight rules, consistent support. It's going to have to compete with Firestorm Armada, which is one hell of a game.

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying not to underestimate Firestorm Armada's current position in the market.

[Psychosplodge]

I loved Epic 2nd ed. LOVED IT.

If I was bringing it back, I'd do it as two mystery boxes. One would be Titanicus, pure Titan-On-Titan combat, and would function in the same way as Dreadfleet - a variety of Titans/Gargants of all sizes representing all races.

The second box would be pure tanks, Baneblade-on-Fellblade joy. Same idea; "character"-style tank units.

Both would be set in the Horus Heresy (like the original Epic games), both would be self-contained, and they would basically use more specialised, focused forms of 40k's Apocalypse rules.

Because the idea of Titans in 40K scale is still the dumbest thing ever. EVER.


Tank battles of the Horus heresy? Now there's an epic sounding game...

[Mr Mystery]

[engagehobbyhipstermode]

Of course, true fans know that the Horus Heresy was set in Adptus Titanicus, rather than the other way around. I would elaborate, but that would question my hipster status. Not that hipster status means much. But you're too mainstream to be told.

[/disengagehobbyhipstermode]

[Katharon]

Only reason they might "re-start" it is to sell off old stock. Make it a flash-deal type of thing to draw people into buying their left over stock and supplies, maybe even give out new rules, but as soon as they sell off everything that they feel that they can -- *snip* goes the cord. I've known a few retail stores to do similar things to products that they weren't selling well; they stopped selling them, waited until people who DID want them were near enough complaining about it, and then brought it all back with an artificial "discount" which caused everyone and their mums to buy it. It's called "creating demand".

[Mr Mystery]

Stock is sold already though?

[ElectricPaladin]

I doubt they would do this. GW seems to be trending towards not pissing off their customers these days. Whatever your feelings about this codex or that decision, I doubt they'd do something so blatanly dickish as creating a product designed to be abandoned just in order to sell off the dregs of old product. Especially since it's mostly white metal and they could just sell it off as scrap.

[Loken]

Ineteresting. Just a couple months ago Faeit posted that Fantasy Flight was going to take over Specialist Games.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/search?q=fantasy+flight+specialist

Now GW is re-releasing them?

I think this speaks to the state of the rumor mill these days. Everything needs to be taken as speculation, not insight.