A matter of the heart

[SotonShades]

Good morning folks and folkettes of the Oubliette.

I've managed to get myself into a confusing situation, simple through being in what I hope is the right place but at the wrong time.

I recently met an amazing girl; smart, funny,sweet, kind, attractive in a slightly quirky way. We were introduced at a mutual friend's party and hit it off right away, chatting like we had known each other for years (though talking about Pixar films with most people can have that effect!)

Two days later, she has posted quite a long status on the book of far too many faces, a bit of a cathartic release I think, letting people know how much she is struggling with a break up two weeks ago from a relationship that lasted a number of months.

So here is my conundrum; I like her. I am fairly certain she likes me as well, but is clearly not in a place to start a new relationship. The age-old question is how long to wait before asking her out? I know the answer is different for every girl and every relationship, but it never hurts to get advice from strangers on the interwebs...

I would take my own advice, but based on the last few attempts at doing that, I either ask too soon or wait exactly 4 days after they have started dating someone else. It's always 4 days; apparently I am a latent psyker or something... In the past I have also let girls know that I was interested, but understood that they weren't ready at that time. Usually that has resulted in either them or myself moving to another city. I'm fairly confident that is merely coincidence though.

What do you lovely BoLSers think I should do?

Shades

[Cap'nSmurfs]

God bless all those smart, funny, pixar-loving ladies! Here's the thing: asking, and opening a dialogue, is the right thing to do. So much talk is wasted about 'signals' and biding your time and the right moment and such. But human relationships aren't a strategy game, they're about talking to people. You'll never know how someone feels until you talk about it.

And I know as well as anyone how difficult that can be, firstly because it involves opening oneself up emotionally, and secondly because we're surrounded by an awful lot of misleading cultural guff about how relationships and romance is supposed to work. The chase. The game. Playing hard to get. Picking your moment. A lot of it is nonsense.

The best thing you can do is talk to her. Tell her how you feel, ask her how she feels. I will say that you may want to wait for a bit if she's coming out of a bad breakup, sure. Hang out a few times! But be honest, and be respectful of the other person by being honest.

You might not get exactly what you want. But you'll be a better person for it. And there's nothing at all wrong with being friends with smart, funny, pixar-loving ladies.

Hope that helps. :)

[scadugenga]

A quandary to be sure.

You don't want to wait too long as you'll get lumped into the "friend" category, but you don't want to be the rebound guy either.

Best route may be to come clean: let her know you understand she just ended a relationship, and you're interested, but willing to wait until she's ready to date again. Give her the control of when (assuming she's interested) and you'll likely have positive results down the line.

[Psychosplodge]

Best route may be to come clean: let her know you understand she just ended a relationship, and you're interested, but willing to wait until she's ready to date again. Give her the control of when (assuming she's interested) and you'll likely have positive results down the line.

This might be the best bet^

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Full frank and honest disclosure is the key. Makes the most sense.
And even if it blows up in your face at least there'll never be any "should I have?" thoughts floating around in there.
Just let her know you're there, and you'll wait till she's ready.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

I put my foot in it with the glamorous career lady I'm interested in, by asking her out when she was still with her now ex-fiancee, thinking they'd broken up months ago.

Naturally they hadn't, so instant apology for assumption, and no harm done.

And I continue to work on her. I know she's into my kind of guy (career minded, fairly clean living, intelligent) so I've got at least a squeak at this!

Same goes dude. Just be honest.

[Nabterayl]

Agreed with all that's been said so far. You don't have a binary choice between "asking her out" and "not talking to her." Until and unless she's ready to try a new relationship, it is totally okay to hang out with her like you would hang out with a friend. I say own up to the fact that you're interested in her and tell her that you understand she's probably not ready for another Relationship right now, and you're okay with that because you enjoy her company. I mean, there are way worse relationship foundations than for a girl to know, "Hey, this dude is self-controlled enough to keep his paws off me even though he's totally into me, and likes me enough to get to know me even without a romantic component."

I mean, it sounds like she likes you too. There can be a big difference between doing something one on one with a guy you like and thinking in the back of your mind, "Man, is he going to expect to pay for this/flirt with/kiss/make out with/have sex with me" (etc.; you get the idea) and not having to worry about that because you were up front and honest.

[Psychosplodge]

^ No that's exactly not what I meant when agreeing with Scadearlier.
You'll just set yourself up for misery if she isn't interested. Lay your cards on the table, and be there for if she wants you in the near future.

[Wildeybeast]

Agreed with all that's been said so far. You don't have a binary choice between "asking her out" and "not talking to her." Until and unless she's ready to try a new relationship, it is totally okay to hang out with her like you would hang out with a friend. I say own up to the fact that you're interested in her and tell her that you understand she's probably not ready for another Relationship right now, and you're okay with that because you enjoy her company. I mean, there are way worse relationship foundations than for a girl to know, "Hey, this dude is self-controlled enough to keep his paws off me even though he's totally into me, and likes me enough to get to know me even without a romantic component."

I mean, it sounds like she likes you too. There can be a big difference between doing something one on one with a guy you like and thinking in the back of your mind, "Man, is he going to expect to pay for this/flirt with/kiss/make out with/have sex with me" (etc.; you get the idea) and not having to worry about that because you were up front and honest.

I agree with everyone that you should play your cards up front, but what Nab says is a double edged sword. The whole hanging out whilst she gets to the place she needs to be to date you may backfire. If you are the emotionally undemanding, reliable friend who helps her through her break up, there is a good chance you will stay as such. You need to be clear that whilst you are giving her time to get over the break up, the hanging out is done with a clear view on seeing whether a relationship is on the cards, not 'cos you want to be her friend (unless you are willing to settle for that). She probably already has plenty to help her through the break up and it isn't what you want from her. So sure, be the respectful, 'I'm not putting on any pressure here' guy, but make sure she doesn't get too comfortable and forget what you want from her. The other alternative is to lay it all out upfront, tell her you know she may not be ready and to call you when she is, then leave it at that.

[Deadlift]

A quandary to be sure.

You don't want to wait too long as you'll get lumped into the "friend" category, but you don't want to be the rebound guy either.

Best route may be to come clean: let her know you understand she just ended a relationship, and you're interested, but willing to wait until she's ready to date again. Give her the control of when (assuming she's interested) and you'll likely have positive results down the line.

This would be my advice too, sure you want to get to know her and her you but with your intentions clear your safe from ending up in the "friends" category.

He he my 3000th post is about love. That's cool.

[scadugenga]

Actually I'm with Nab on this. If you make your intent clear and them back away entirely you are sending the message you're only interested in her romantically which generally will not be received well.

Again, you're in a tough place. Good luck!

[YorkNecromancer]

My first bit of advice woud be to ignore the concept of 'the friendzone'. It's a myth. If you end up being her friend rather than her lover, well, you were always going to end up that way. No-one likes to hear that they aren't attractive, but the truth is, we're not . Not to everyone. If it's not going to happen, you can't make it happen.

Next, the issue seems to be one of timing.

I was in a relationship with a girl for a year and five months, and it was the most miserable relationship I have ever suffered through. She liked me just fine as a friend, but she came to me a with a whole load of baggage she wasn't ready to deal with from her previous relationship. She had only been single for a very short time, and I realise now that she was never interested in me beyond friendship; the reason for her initiating a relationship beyond that was her phobia of being single. Loneliness can make people do crazy things; I went out with her, for example. It is always better to be alone than try and turn a one-way love affair into a two-way one. The moon may reflect the sun's glow, but it's still dark at night.

Here's the thing; you probably already know what you want/are going to do, you're just looking for confirmation. Whether you do or not is irrelevant. Do what is in your heart. Be honest with her, and fair to yourself.

If I am honest, it sounds like the timing is wrong; that you probably could work as a couple together, but she's not ready, and by the time she is, you or she will be with someone else. There's nothing wrong or bad about this; it's just life. There's always the other possibility, that the timing is not right now, you drift apart, and then come back together years, or even decades from now. Life is weird, and its paths unpredictable and circuitious.

Tell her how you feel. Be honest, and use the words "I feel..." to clarify (i.e.: "I feel we would work well together" rather than "We would work well together".) This will help make your feelings clear, but without putting pressure on her. If she says she's not ready, accept it and move on. There's a specific type of nonsense that goes "Oh, but I don't want to ruin our friendship."

Your friendship was ruined the moment your feelings increased to include the romantic. Follow them or don't, but be aware things will be very weird for a few months if you don't.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I hope it works out for you. Just be honest and open, and prepared for whatever the consequences may be. If it does fail, it's not like she's the only girl who likes Pixar. Frankly, I have yet to meet a girl who doesn't.

[Nabterayl]

My first bit of advice woud be to ignore the concept of 'the friendzone'. It's a myth. If you end up being her friend rather than her lover, well, you were always going to end up that way. No-one likes to hear that they aren't attractive, but the truth is, we're not . Not to everyone. If it's not going to happen, you can't make it happen.
This I agree with. To put my suggestion in context with Wildey's "double-edged sword" comment, I might feel differently if I believed in the friendzone. The fact that I think it's a myth definitely underpins my advice.


Your friendship was ruined the moment your feelings increased to include the romantic. Follow them or don't, but be aware things will be very weird for a few months if you don't.
I don't know how absolutely Yorky means this, but I don't agree with this. Specifically, I don't believe that you can't be friends with somebody you know is attracted to you, and I don't believe you can't be friends with somebody you are attracted to who doesn't reciprocate your feelings. One of my dearest friends is somebody I've been attracted to for thirteen years. We aren't getting together, and we both know it. She is still my dear friend, and I am still hers.

[Wildeybeast]

The friend zone is not an absolute rule, but it is a thing for a reason. It is perfectly possible for long-standing friendship to develop into romantic longings (reciprocal or not). The friendzone exists because people fail to set out the parameters and expectations of their relationship clearly and you both end up wanting different things. My point is that Soton is attempting to build a new relationship and those first impressions will be incredibly important, especially with a woman who's feelings towards men are currently 'confused'. It isn't enough to simply tell her how you feel and then hang out hoping she ends up feeling the same way (unless, as I said, you are happy with settling for friendship). You need to define and reinforce your expectations (in a non-pushy way) to make sure you don't drop into a situation where you want different things from the relationship. If you really want her, go for it all out and make sure she knows it.

[Denzark]

Carpe jugulum! And remember, no matter what the first date is, the second must be to the zoo. To watch the Lions mating. There is no mistaking your intent there. Grrrr. Lots of biting, clawing and fur flying.

[Nabterayl]

The friend zone is not an absolute rule, but it is a thing for a reason. It is perfectly possible for long-standing friendship to develop into romantic longings (reciprocal or not). The friendzone exists because people fail to set out the parameters and expectations of their relationship clearly and you both end up wanting different things. My point is that Soton is attempting to build a new relationship and those first impressions will be incredibly important, especially with a woman who's feelings towards men are currently 'confused'. It isn't enough to simply tell her how you feel and then hang out hoping she ends up feeling the same way (unless, as I said, you are happy with settling for friendship). You need to define and reinforce your expectations (in a non-pushy way) to make sure you don't drop into a situation where you want different things from the relationship. If you really want her, go for it all out and make sure she knows it.
Ah, that I agree with. I don't believe in the friendzone as a place that people can put their suitors, but I do believe in it as a place that suitors can put themselves into by being wishy-washy. If you want things to go other than where they are, I definitely echo the need to define and reinforce your expectations in a non-pushy way.

[Deadlift]

Guys, come on your over doing this just a tad bit.

A) be honest
B) ask her on a date
C) see how it goes.

Rinse and repeat.

All this don't do this and do that, is all bull**** really.

Dating is fun, I think that's being lost in all the paragraphs of advice your getting.

[Psychosplodge]

Fun?
Dating is nerve wrecking terror offset by when you find something that works and makes it worthwhile...

[Denzark]

Guys, come on your over doing this just a tad bit.


Dating is fun, I think that's being lost in all the paragraphs of advice your getting.


All my friends who for whatever reason are in the 'dating game' hate and loath it. I have never understood dating - although with 10th anniversary coming next year, and us having been together 6 years before that, I am out of date. Any of the 'relationships' I had before that at Universtiy, seemed to be where waking up from a night of bacchanalian debauchery both parties had a sufficiently mutual liking to gravitate together until something came of it. I can recommend this approach - definitely try before you buy. Or something. This advice comes to you from last century, in lieu of anything better, I endorse deady's a-c - don't over complicate things and if nothing is ventured, nothing is gained.

'Friendship Zone'? 'Dating'? Psshaaww.

[eldargal]

Don't forget to stalk and kill a wilder-beast to show you can provide for her and her spawn.

[Deadlift]

I had a blast in my dating years. A few ups and downs to be sure, but for the most part I met some great women and had a lot of fun.
I think too many people set too high expectations of each other and that's what complicates things.
Just ****ing enjoy what you have whilst you do. Once the right one comes along you will know it.
However if my daughter ever starts dating anyone like I used to be, he's a dead man.

[Psychosplodge]

Clear double standards... :D

I've never really done it. I messed about with a girl, when that didn't work out, week after found one I was with for best part of a decade, had a year more or less alone after that, then met the current one and hit it off straight away... *shrug* I probably missed a lot along the way...

[DrLove42]

Don't forget to stalk and kill a wilder-beast to show you can provide for her and her spawn.

First of all definently do this


I had a blast in my dating years. A few ups and downs to be sure, but for the most part I met some great women and had a lot of fun.
I think too many people set too high expectations of each other and that's what complicates things.
Just ****ing enjoy what you have whilst you do. Once the right one comes along you will know it.
However if my daughter ever starts dating anyone like I used to be, he's a dead man.

I am so glad to never have to date again. Awful awful times. The actual being with someone is fun, but the getting there and the times in between are awful

As for daughters dating...they always say having girls is gods way of punishing you for being a man.

[Psychosplodge]

I've never heard that one.

I have heard
If you have a son, you need to worry about one Dick If you have daughters, you need to worry about every Dick...

[Wolfshade]

Don't forget to stalk and kill a wilder-beast to show you can provide for her and her spawn.

I did this, apparently she didn't like venison :(

[DrLove42]

I've never heard that one.

I have heard
If you have a son, you need to worry about one Dick If you have daughters, you need to worry about every Dick...

True.

My wife and I have an arrangement. I'll deal with the girls for the first 11 of so years, she can have them for the following 11....

[Deadlift]

I admit I'm dreading the time when "boys" become an issue. I plan on being "quietly menacing" when the time comes.

[Psychosplodge]

I admit I'm dreading the time when "boys" become an issue. I plan on being "quietly menacing" when the time comes.

Probably the best method :D

[DrLove42]

The solution is to convince your daughters lesbianism is the best option

[eldargal]

And/or militant feminists.

[Psychosplodge]

The solution is to convince your daughters lesbianism is the best option

Well they certainly won't get pregnant...

[Denzark]

I had a blast in my dating years. A few ups and downs to be sure, but for the most part I met some great women and had a lot of fun.
I think too many people set too high expectations of each other and that's what complicates things.
Just ****ing enjoy what you have whilst you do. Once the right one comes along you will know it.
However if my daughter ever starts dating anyone like I used to be, he's a dead man.



So you had a few ups and downs when dating... Fnar Fnar.

[DrLove42]

Yeah then no man will want them :P

[Deadlift]

And/or militant feminists.

I don't want her ending up like you, all nasty and self righteous :p

Lol you know I'm joking :D

[DrLove42]

Convince them that showering is overated...teh you dn't have to worry about boys coming close :P

[SotonShades]

This might just be one of the most popular threads I've started that wasn't about my models...

Thanks for the input guys. I especially like Eldargals wilderbeast idea, but I may have to settle for a more native animal (there are too many Deer round here anyway...)

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Don't forget to stalk and kill a wilder-beast to show you can provide for her and her spawn.

Ok, I've dragged the dead wildebeest to my wife's work and left it on her car(as I normally do with flowers if she's having a bad day/week/if I just feel like it), but she's not as appreciative as when I get her flowers, did I do something wrong?

[Psychosplodge]

Ok, I've dragged the dead wildebeest to my wife's work and left it on her car(as I normally do with flowers if she's having a bad day/week/if I just feel like it), but she's not as appreciative as when I get her flowers, did I do something wrong?

Had she just washed the car?

[Mr Mystery]

Has she fallen to the communists this week?

[DrLove42]

Has she fallen to the communists this week?

Never heard this one before....awesome

[Psychosplodge]

I've learnt never to mention it if I value my continued existence...

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Has she fallen to the communists this week?

Worst euphemism EVER.

To my knowledge splodge, she has NEVER washed her car. Although admittedly it is now a different shade of red in places.......
If I hadn't ripped the thing's throat out with my teeth first this may have gone better..............

[Psychosplodge]

See there's your problem...

[Wildeybeast]

Don't forget to stalk and kill a wilder-beast to show you can provide for her and her spawn.

Firstly, I feel we all need to take a step back from this whole wildeybeast murdering trip that everyone seems to be on. You're all just to a little too excited about it and it's making me feel rather nervous.

Secondly, EG, if this is your attempt to initiate mating rituals with me, I must insist that you wait until after consummation before butchering me. Otherwise, colour me aroused. Terrified, but aroused.

[eldargal]

Red meat forever!:p

[scadugenga]

Firstly, I feel we all need to take a step back from this whole wildeybeast murdering trip that everyone seems to be on. You're all just to a little too excited about it and it's making me feel rather nervous.

Secondly, EG, if this is your attempt to initiate mating rituals with me, I must insist that you wait until after consummation before butchering me. Otherwise, colour me aroused. Terrified, but aroused.

This made my morning.

Almost spewed ice tea across my desk.

[Wildeybeast]

Glad to be of service. :)

[Wolfshade]

Red meat forever!:p

Having enough beers I feel I can say purple meat!

[Psychosplodge]

Just bringing this back a second...


Has she fallen to the communists this week?

http://i40.tinypic.com/29pukua.png


Firstly, I feel we all need to take a step back from this whole wildeybeast murdering trip that everyone seems to be on. You're all just to a little too excited about it and it's making me feel rather nervous.

Secondly, EG, if this is your attempt to initiate mating rituals with me, I must insist that you wait until after consummation before butchering me. Otherwise, colour me aroused. Terrified, but aroused.

that's hilarious.

[eldargal]

Secondly, EG, if this is your attempt to initiate mating rituals with me, I must insist that you wait until after consummation before butchering me. Otherwise, colour me aroused. Terrified, but aroused.
I can't make that promise.

[Mr Mystery]

Worst euphemism EVER.

To my knowledge splodge, she has NEVER washed her car. Although admittedly it is now a different shade of red in places.......
If I hadn't ripped the thing's throat out with my teeth first this may have gone better..............

You'd perhaps prefer to say she's up on blocks? Because that's more likely to lead to a painful foot/gentlemen's area interface event.

[Wildeybeast]

I can't make that promise.

Oh well. I get to go out on a high either way, I'm in.

[SotonShades]

Thought you all might like to know that it didn't work out. She was very polite and let me down easy, but at least I let her know.

Now where's my hunting rifle? I need to go find a Wilderbeast...

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Thought you all might like to know that it didn't work out. She was very polite and let me down easy, but at least I let her know.

Now where's my hunting rifle? I need to go find a Wilderbeast...

Tough luck champ, better luck next time. And at least she knows if she changes her mind.
Poor Wilderbeast. I discussed this thread with the wife and she confirms that girls do prefer flowers, and rightly pointed out that if you don't buy them you can still "hunt, stalk and kill" them and deliver them to her proving your manliness.

[Psychosplodge]

Rifle? You have to use your teeth.

At least you tried...

[Wolfshade]

Tough luck champ, better luck next time. And at least she knows if she changes her mind.
Poor Wilderbeast. I discussed this thread with the wife and she confirms that girls do prefer flowers, and rightly pointed out that if you don't buy them you can still "hunt, stalk and kill" them and deliver them to her proving your manliness.

This was a story line in the Archers, it didn't work out well for the man who hunted them...

[Kaptain Badrukk]

This was a story line in the Archers, it didn't work out well for the man who hunted them...

1 - You listen to the Archers?
2 - There was a story line in the Archers about a guy who hunted and killed flowers?
3 - Whisky Tango Foxtrot!?!

[Deadlift]

Thought you all might like to know that it didn't work out. She was very polite and let me down easy, but at least I let her know.

Now where's my hunting rifle? I need to go find a Wilderbeast...

Sorry to hear that matey, but at least you know. You didn't tell her you were into 40k did you ?
:D
Now onto the next victim :)

[Wolfshade]

1 - You listen to the Archers?
2 - There was a story line in the Archers about a guy who hunted and killed flowers?
3 - Whisky Tango Foxtrot!?!

1. Who doesn't?! Being an Alpha Male it is required.
2. Yes, a chap wanted to get some flowers for his girl friend for a romatic meal he was cooking, he went to the village shop and the women therein told him village shop flowers were akin to garage flowers and he should do better. He spotted some beautiful flowers in the garden of his girlfriend and picked them. She was growing them for the village show. Fortunately a week latter Lillians were eaten by a cow so it wasn't too bad.
3. Alpha Mike Foxtrot.

[DrLove42]

1. Who doesn't?! Being an Alpha Male it is required.
2. Yes, a chap wanted to get some flowers for his girl friend for a romatic meal he was cooking, he went to the village shop and the women therein told him village shop flowers were akin to garage flowers and he should do better. He spotted some beautiful flowers in the garden of his girlfriend and picked them. She was growing them for the village show. Fortunately a week latter Lillians were eaten by a cow so it wasn't too bad.
3. Alpha Mike Foxtrot.

That story line is so middle classed and country bumpkin cliched it hurts

[Kaptain Badrukk]

2. Yes, a chap wanted to get some flowers for his girl friend for a romatic meal he was cooking, he went to the village shop and the women therein told him village shop flowers were akin to garage flowers and he should do better. He spotted some beautiful flowers in the garden of his girlfriend and picked them. She was growing them for the village show. Fortunately a week latter Lillians were eaten by a cow so it wasn't too bad.

Best storyline ever.
Seriously.
And the Deus Ex Machina (or should that be Moo-china :rolleyes:) ending just ices the cake.

[Wolfshade]

Best storyline ever.
Seriously.
And the Deus Ex Machina (or should that be Moo-china :rolleyes:) ending just ices the cake.

What do you mean? It is a hard hitting fly on the wall documentary.

[Psychosplodge]

Is there an episode with legal late teen lesbian experimentation?

[Wolfshade]

Is there an episode with legal late teen lesbian experimentation?

You mean Pip...

[Psychosplodge]

please do continue...

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Audio only splodge, audio only............

[DrLove42]

And likely audio from a 40 year old pretending to be a 17 YO

[Psychosplodge]

pffft spoil everything.
You know audio can work, I mean if fanfiction can work audio can work...

[Wolfshade]

No-no in real life born 1993

[Wildeybeast]

Thought you all might like to know that it didn't work out. She was very polite and let me down easy, but at least I let her know.

Now where's my hunting rifle? I need to go find a Wilderbeast...

You get rebuffed so I get murdered? :( I was on a promise from EG as well. Fate is a cruel mistress.

[Denzark]

Thought you all might like to know that it didn't work out. She was very polite and let me down easy, but at least I let her know.

Now where's my hunting rifle? I need to go find a Wilderbeast...

Sorry to hear old chap. Maybe if you use cover up on that silver head of yours, you might have more success...
:D
Good skills for trying though.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

You're travelling through another dimension, a dimension not only of blue balls and self-loathing but of a prison of your own mind; a journey into an imagined land whose boundaries are that of your general sexual attractiveness and income - Next stop, the Friend Zone

[eldargal]

You get rebuffed so I get murdered? :( I was on a promise from EG as well. Fate is a cruel mistress.

Not as cruel as me I assure you.:cool:

[Wildeybeast]

Just the way I like it. ;)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

What am I even reading? xD

[Psychosplodge]

What am I even reading? xD

Foreplay?