Can you take multiple Vindicares in apocalypse?

[Capn Stoogey]

Basically my question is this: do the assassins' "unique" status stop an army from having multiples in apocalypse?

Let me set the scene: I had forgotten to deploy my Vindicare at the start and as a result he had to wait until late game to enter play. In our turn 3 I brought him on to try and strip a hull point or two from some superheavies I was trying to kill. My flyers had dropped a shadowsword that was threatening my Titans down to a single hull point and I figured it would be pretty epic for the assassin to take the final one and detonate the sucker. He strolled on 6", lined up the side of the shadowsword and rolled a hard 6 for the snapshot! I was stoked! Then, I rolled the 4d6 for the turbo penetrator (he he...) and got 17! KABOOM went the shadowsword! This was exactly when an opponent piped up and said "bad luck mate, doesnt count, you can't have two Vindicares in an army".
I said "I don't, I only have one".
Him- "Yeah, but your teammate has one, they're unique units, only one is allowed in an army".
Me- "But it's apocalypse... Random teams..."
Him- "Yeah, but that's like saying you could take a unit of ten Eldrads".
Me- "Not really... You're saying there's only a single one of each assassin in the entire universe?"
Him- "Yep, you can't do it."
Me- "$&?@. Alright then, RAW, I guess ill put him away :("
Him- "Nah, don't worry, it's only a friendly".
Me- "But... you just... I don't... Why the hell did you even bring it up?"
Him- "don't worry, it's just a friendly".
Me- "well how 'bout we roll off?"
Him- "nah, it's a friendly, just keep the result"
Me- "Right..."

I think the dice gods were with me after that as the next thing I did was smoke another shadowsword and a Baneblade with some epic shooting from my Reaver, and nailed a doomhammer with my Warhound. 4 superheavies in one turn!

Anyway... My understanding was that in appcalypse that sort of uniqueness didnt count, and it was just to represent how rare assassins were in regar 40k. Obviously I wasn't about to charge 5 Marneus Calgars out of a land raider but come on...

So, has anyone come up against this sort of issue from either side? How did you resolve it? What do people think?

[Anggul]

It's apocalypse. Do whatever the heck you want. Imperial Assassin kill-squads are a thing. Exceedingly rare, but a thing.

The only restriction I would put on apocalypse in terms of number of a unit is special characters.

[SaveModifier]

Basically my question is this: do the assassins' "unique" status stop an army from having multiples in apocalypse?

Let me set the scene: I had forgotten to deploy my Vindicare at the start and as a result he had to wait until late game to enter play. In our turn 3 I brought him on to try and strip a hull point or two from some superheavies I was trying to kill. My flyers had dropped a shadowsword that was threatening my Titans down to a single hull point and I figured it would be pretty epic for the assassin to take the final one and detonate the sucker. He strolled on 6", lined up the side of the shadowsword and rolled a hard 6 for the snapshot! I was stoked! Then, I rolled the 4d6 for the turbo penetrator (he he...) and got 17! KABOOM went the shadowsword! This was exactly when an opponent piped up and said "bad luck mate, doesnt count, you can't have two Vindicares in an army".
I said "I don't, I only have one".
Him- "Yeah, but your teammate has one, they're unique units, only one is allowed in an army".
Me- "But it's apocalypse... Random teams..."
Him- "Yeah, but that's like saying you could take a unit of ten Eldrads".
Me- "Not really... You're saying there's only a single one of each assassin in the entire universe?"
Him- "Yep, you can't do it."
Me- "$&?@. Alright then, RAW, I guess ill put him away :("
Him- "Nah, don't worry, it's only a friendly".
Me- "But... you just... I don't... Why the hell did you even bring it up?"
Him- "don't worry, it's just a friendly".
Me- "well how 'bout we roll off?"
Him- "nah, it's a friendly, just keep the result"
Me- "Right..."

I think the dice gods were with me after that as the next thing I did was smoke another shadowsword and a Baneblade with some epic shooting from my Reaver, and nailed a doomhammer with my Warhound. 4 superheavies in one turn!

Anyway... My understanding was that in appcalypse that sort of uniqueness didnt count, and it was just to represent how rare assassins were in regar 40k. Obviously I wasn't about to charge 5 Marneus Calgars out of a land raider but come on...

So, has anyone come up against this sort of issue from either side? How did you resolve it? What do people think?


You can take as many as you want, no detachment rules apply at all in apocalypse, guy was being daft

[sangrail777]

Take an army of nothing but them, that's the point of apoc, take whatever you want. Course some of my friends tend to give restrictions as well and that's fine too. As long as you all agree and remember it's all about havering fun.

[Pssyche]

Assassins are listed in the Grey Knights Codex as Unique.

Apocalypse Book page 19.
Special Characters.
"...you can still only have a single instance of any unique special characters in each army. In the event that two players want to field the same unique special character, the game organiser makes the call."

Short of the game organiser's intervention, your opponent was correct.
And that decision would probably be best sorted out prior to the game starting, not midway through.

[Capn Stoogey]

Assassins are listed in the Grey Knights Codex as Unique.

Apocalypse Book page 19.
Special Characters.
"...you can still only have a single instance of any unique special characters in each army. In the event that two players want to field the same unique special character, the game organiser makes the call."

Short of the game organiser's intervention, your opponent was correct.
And that decision would probably be best sorted out prior to the game starting, not midway through.

They're not special characters though, just unique.
We didnt sort it out pre game because we had no idea who was fielding what. A guy with 12,000 points couldn't make it so the teams were cobbled together last minute.

I'm thinking the same as the others above, assassin kill squads exist etc. I can't help but feel this would not have been an issue if my Vindicare hadn't been so awesome...

[GrauGeist]

Officio Assassinorum Kill Team.

3-6 Assassins from the same temple, with stacked bonuses for taking more than 3.

I like to field a half-dozen Eversors with my Guard. They do a fine job of solving a number of HtH problems in a very direct way.

[GrauGeist]

Assassins are listed in the Grey Knights Codex as Unique.

Apocalypse Book page 19.
Special Characters.

All Special Characters are Unique, but not all Uniques are Special Characters. In Apocalypse, take as many as you like.

[daboarder]

All Special Characters are Unique, but not all Uniques are Special Characters. In Apocalypse, take as many as you like.

This!

[Wolfshade]

GrauGeist certainly has it I think. Don't forget GW used to have apocaluypse formations for kill teams which may have more than one assassin temple involved.

[Capn Stoogey]

All Special Characters are Unique, but not all Uniques are Special Characters. In Apocalypse, take as many as you like.

That's pretty much what I was trying to tell him but he was being rather difficult...
Thanks for the assist everyone, much appreciated :)

[Katharon]

Sounds like he was butthurt over losing his Shadowsword and decided to try an rule-lawyer you out of it. Doesn't work in Apoc however. He shoulda just kept his mouth shut and took his licks. It's Apoc, everything dies.

[Wolfshade]

And also if you have an uissue with it bring it up before the game starts and be consistent.

[Chris*ta]

Sounds like he was butthurt over losing his Shadowsword and decided to try an rule-lawyer you out of it. Doesn't work in Apoc however. He shoulda just kept his mouth shut and took his licks. It's Apoc, everything dies.

I would've used the word passive-aggressive rather than butthurt, but yeah.

[Phototoxin]

I have a vindicare, a callidus and an old imperial assassin, plus an inquisitor + retinue (using GK codex) for use in Apoc. It's apoc, use what ever the >>BLEEEP<< you want to. It's for fun, not competition!

[GrauGeist]

I have a vindicare, a callidus and an old imperial assassin, plus an inquisitor + retinue (using GK codex) for use in Apoc. It's apoc, use what ever the >>BLEEEP<< you want to. It's for fun, not competition!

Nice! I have a full set of the new Assassins, but I should make some effort to get a classic Assassin.

[Katharon]

I would've used the word passive-aggressive rather than butthurt, but yeah.

I'm far less forgiving and much more vile-mouthed when I come across players like the one described in the OP. But, yes, you are correct -- politically correct. ;)

[Cadian122]

I had a game where my Reaver Titan was against 3 Ghazghkulls at the same time (I still killed them dead), but I didn't really care? what's that, you have 4 Calgar Smurfs? so what! I'll just take an extra Titan or something like that. I honestly don't give a toss.

[Pssyche]

All Special Characters are Unique, but not all Uniques are Special Characters.

Distinction duly noted.

[lobster-overlord]

One thing we did on the special character issue, and this happened only once when Iwas really active, was that one player got to use it as the special character, the other had that character's evil clone.


We agreed that the only restriction was a single player couldn't have the same SC more than once in their army, but players could each have them. Now for the assassin, we never encountered the non-SC, unique issue, but I would suspect that since it's not an SC, we wouldn't care (Roll with a Vindicare squad if you like is my thought).

JOhn M>