Über Master

[Tynskel]

Iron Hands Chapter Master w/ Armor Indominable, Burning Blade & Shield Eternal, and Jump Pack.
325pts, 2+/3++ Flying Relentless Orbital Bombardment, Eternal Warrior, 5+ deny the witch, It Will Not Die, 6+ FNP, 4 Str 7/AP2 Blind melee attacks.

[plawolf]

Armour Indomitable seems a bit excessive. I wouldn't bother with that, although I would switch the jump pack for a bike to get T5. Maybe also take a grave pistal/rifle for some relentless dakka fun before you get stuck into CC.

[Tynskel]

The Armor Gives you relentless, so you can orbital strike.

But, yeah, swapping the armor for artificer, and then taking a bike works, too. The Shield + Sword, though, prevent getting the gun.

[Tynskel]

Über Version 2:


Iron Hands Master
Artificer Armor
Bike
Shield Eternal (replace chainsword)
Burning Blade (replace bolt pistol)
Primarch's Wrath (replace twin-linked Bolters on bike)

[DarkLink]

I'd take a combi-grav over the primarch's wrath.

[FlangeNabber]

"The Shield + Sword, though, prevent getting the gun."

Have i missed somthing here?
I'm pretty sure it just says "may take" before the list of choices, I dont see a reason why you can't take one of everything from a rules perspective - though it might be a little hard to model that as wysiwyg

I personally will be running a similar configuration on a bike to attach to my White Scars command squad along with the Khan and possibly 2 Tech Marines on bikes to create something of a nasty death star.
Might even look at adding in an allied Librarian for a chance of invisibility or other such force multiplying shinanagins

[DarkLink]

You exchange weapons 1 for 1. The Chapter Master starts with 2 weapons, and so you can only swap out for 2 Relics. However, taking a bike nets you a third weapon (TL bolter), so you can get a third thingie.

[FlangeNabber]

Ahh, yes I see now.
The actual equipment list specifies the swap rather than the unit entry.

With the TL bolter on the bike to add a 3rd swap it makes the bike upgrade look even better to me now!

[Tynskel]

I'd take a combi-grav over the primarch's wrath.

A combi-grav is fun, but 5 shots is great! It is master crafted for that occasional miss on BS5 and it re-rolls to wound.

[Anggul]

I'm still preferring the idea of a Thunder Hammer over the Burning Blade, especially on an Iron Hand who is even tougher. The different between S7 and S8 is pretty huge due to instant death and most MCs being T6. It also levels the speed against I6 or higher opponents (let's face it, there isn't much that can kill this guy in one round of combat, so striking last for the first round is generally irrelevant).

[DarkLink]

I agree, the thunderhammer is better competitively. The burning blade is cool, but the hammer is better at hurting the things that need to be hurt.


A combi-grav is fun, but 5 shots is great! It is master crafted for that occasional miss on BS5 and it re-rolls to wound.

But they're still basically bolter shots. 3 ap2 shots is better than 5 low ap ones.

Plus, pretty importantly, you're CM is like 50pts more expensive but you don't get that much extra performance out of him.

[Tynskel]

Hammer is pretty cool, but the idea is to have str 7 Int 5 commander. You might get the warlord trait that grants furious charge, and that bumps you up to strength 8.

As for AP2...
Well, it entirely depends on what you are trying to use the guy for. I envision the Chapter Master breaking off a squad, and just smashing regular units. With 5 re-rolling to wound shots and then 5 attacks on the charge, you can do a number on squads. Then you throw in all the special rules.

It is possible, though, for what I envision this guy doing, that the Teeth of Terra might be better. Rampage is pretty useful for solo.

[Anggul]

Good point actually, if that's his role then the Teeth of Terra might indeed be better. The only reason I tend toward a hammer is versatility for mashing T4 multi-wound things and MCs, but if he's primarily gunning for basic squads, Teeth of Terra would do a lovely job of tearing through entire tactical squads rather quickly indeed. I'd love to hear if it works well, it sounds like it would put out a lot of attacks and kill a lot of things.

[Tynskel]

Good point actually, if that's his role then the Teeth of Terra might indeed be better. The only reason I tend toward a hammer is versatility for mashing T4 multi-wound things and MCs, but if he's primarily gunning for basic squads, Teeth of Terra would do a lovely job of tearing through entire tactical squads rather quickly indeed. I'd love to hear if it works well, it sounds like it would put out a lot of attacks and kill a lot of things.

I have thought about the Hammer Technique. The nice thing about the Sword is that although it limits your Instant Death Capability, however, you get to keep your Initiative 5. That can be more important.

[DarkLink]

He smashes regular troops whether he's got the hammer or the sword. But only the hammer and the burning blade let him also fight, well, pretty much anything, and the hammer is a better deal than the blade.

[Tynskel]

yes, no. Initiative is still pretty useful.

It just depends on what you are trying to do.
Don't get me wrong–a thunder hammer is pretty sweet. But so is a Str 7 AP2 weapon at I5.

[DarkLink]

You gain a lot more from the extra strength and Concussive than you do from I5 on your character, and it's cheaper.

[Tynskel]

You gain a lot more from the extra strength and Concussive than you do from I5 on your character, and it's cheaper.

yes, no. Sometimes, going first is all that matters with AP2.

[DarkLink]

Not really. Again, against almost everything in the game, specifically the weaker stuff you say you want to send him after, they can't really do anything to the CM. He's T5, 4 wounds, with a 2/3+.

Unless you, say, get charged by like 30 Ork Boyz, or by the Swarmlord, there's no real difference in performance. But against 30 Boyz, it doesn't matter because even if you kill 4 boyz before they hit, there are another 26 that still get to go. Drop in the bucket. And the Swarmlord hits before I5 anyways. But hey, if you survive and hit with the Thunderhammer and do a wound, you're guaranteed a second round of hits on him thanks to Concussive (the same is true for pretty much every other uber-nasty assault HQ in the game).

So, basically there are a handful of minor cases in which the Burning Blade has a minor advantage, but it really doesn't matter all that much realistically, while there are a number of major cases in which you're far better off hoping you survive to hit with the Thunderhammer.


Now, the Burning Blade is really cool. I magnetized the arm on my new SM Chapter Master (I've been picking up allied contingents for my GKs) so I can use both. But the Thunderhammer is the more competitive option.

[Tynskel]

I see what you are getting at.

Although, I must admit, once you are getting down to 1 or 2 wounds left, the Thunder Hammer is looking less useful and the Sword is looking more useful.

[DarkLink]

Either way, I definitely wouldn't make the Chapter Master my warlord. I don't make Draigo my warlord for the same reason, when I have the opportunity.

[Tynskel]

Either way, I definitely wouldn't make the Chapter Master my warlord. I don't make Draigo my warlord for the same reason, when I have the opportunity.

That's interesting. Because that's just implying that you take 2 HQs. I wouldn't take 2 HQs when I spending close to 300 points on one.