Company Champion Question

[DWest]

Looking at the Command Squad entry in the new Space Marine dex (pg 164), it says:
"One Veteran may be upgraded to a Company Champion, replacing their Chainsword with a Power Weapon and Combat Shield . . . X points"
and then a later bullet point says:
"Any Veteran may take any of the following:
-Storm Shield . . . X points"

Now, I'm reading this as I can put a Storm Shield on a Command Squad Veteran, and then make that Veteran into the Company Champion, retaining the shield. Is this accurate?

[Tynskel]

This argument has been proposed many times.

However, the agreement is (and the precedent is set in previous FAQs) that you have to be a veteran to gain access to veteran gear. The moment one takes the upgrade to Champion, they cease to be a Veteran. Just like the Apothecary ceases to be a Veteran.

[DWest]

Well, that's somewhat unfortunate. I was actually under the impression that the reason the Apothecary was switched to "Vet, may be upgraded to" was so he could also take gear.

So I suppose the next question is: without a Storm Shield or Artificer Armour, is the Champion worth taking, or should I not spend the points on what will quickly become roadkill?

[Tynskel]

you are paying 15 points for the power weapon that also comes with a combat shield and a WS upgrade. Not to mention, character status and can issue/accept challenges.

That's a solid deal.

If you take Black Templars and a Paul Maul for the Champion, you end up with a character that re-rolls to hit, str 6 AP4 Rending vs Characters. Pretty good.

[Nabterayl]

The precedent was also set in previous FAQs (e.g., ork nobz) that you can take upgrades in any order you like unless the rules state otherwise. You don't have to go down the list in order from top to bottom. So while you cannot give a Company Champion a storm shield, you can give a Veteran a storm shield and, so long as he still has his chainsword, upgrade him to a Company Champion, at which point he will have a storm shield and a combat shield, and a power sword, and his bolt pistol or whatever you turned his bolt pistol into.

[Tynskel]

Q. If a Boyz mob exchange sluggas and choppas with shootas, can a Nob take a power klaw or a big choppa? (p100)
A. You may upgrade the Nob to have a big choppa or power klaw before you choose to upgrade the mob to have shootas, in which case the Nob is not affected by the mob’s weapon swap (as he no longer has a choppa to swap), does not receive a shoota and keeps his slugga and power klaw/big choppa instead.

Q: Can a Furioso Librarian take additional wargear (such as extra armour)? (p29)
A: No.

No FAQ on this for Codex: Space Marines.
No FAQ on this for Codex: Dark Angels



To me, the interpretation on this is that the Nob was supposed to have access to all weapons, which is consistent with Sergeant Upgrades, and Sergeants alone.

Look at the Painboy:
Q: Can a Painboy in a unit of Nobs take the ‘eavy armour, bosspole, Waaagh! Banner or ammo runt upgrades? (p98)
A: No.

[Nabterayl]

Hmmmm. The Furioso Librarian ruling makes sense to me; the army list entry only allows Furioso Dreadnoughts to take upgrades, and the Furioso Librarian upgrade requires you to replace all wargear (and I don't see why extra armour wouldn't count as wargear). Once you've done that, you've lost any upgrades you paid for, and you're no longer a Furioso Dreadnought, so you can't buy them again.

The Painboy FAQ is a good point though. That does seem inconsistent to me, and your gloss is as good as any, I think.

[Tynskel]

But, you are right, we have a double standard in the ork codex, and a wishy washy standard for BA. The Space Marines and Dark Angels have almost the exact same wording.

I would love to give the apothecary wargear. You used to be able to in 4th Edition. In 5th Edition, GW started making decisions that if the model itself did not come with options, then there were no options in the entry.

Look at the Terminator Captain entry. No more power weapon choice: it is what comes on the Terminator Captain model, a sword.

[Houghten]

Also known as "screw you, converters."

[DWest]

Speaking of Terminator Captains, if you buy him a Thunder Hammer and a Lightning Claw, it's 30 points, however if you buy him a Lightning Claw and a Thunder Hammer, it's 25 points. For some reason the points for replacing the Storm Bolter vs replacing the Power Sword come to different totals.

[Tynskel]

Speaking of Terminator Captains, if you buy him a Thunder Hammer and a Lightning Claw, it's 30 points, however if you buy him a Lightning Claw and a Thunder Hammer, it's 25 points. For some reason the points for replacing the Storm Bolter vs replacing the Power Sword come to different totals.

I recommend going with the cheaper option...