Raven Guard Alpha Strike Build

[Paulo187]

I was mulling over some possible Raven Guard tactics, ran some numbers, and I believe I may have hit upon an interesting alpha strike build. I'm just not sure if it is too bold and risky or not.

Deployment: Deploy two or three Rhinos full of Tactical Marines 12" from your board edge.

Scout Move: Move your Rhinos up 12" (You are now at the center line of the board).

Turn 1: Move your Rhinos up 6" and flip them around so that the rear faces the enemy.
Disembark the Tactical Marines up to 6" from the rear ramp (which is now facing toward the enemy).
Proceed to Rapid Fire any enemy that isn't hugging the back table edge since you are now standing 12" from the enemy's table edge.
Profit!

It seems hard to believe, but with the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics you can give "Scout" to Tactical Squads in Rhinos and have a nice firing line pumping our Rapid Fire Bolter rounds into any enemy on the board on turn 1. That seems like a pretty good ability to me.

It seems to me that you should concentrate fire on their shootiest squads (to cut down on return fire coming your way). Plus, you have stealth for the first turn so that might help a little. You can ignore the big scary enemy dedicated close assault units since they aren't allowed to charge you until turn two.

So what do you do on turn 2 when you get charged by the enemy assault units? By that time your two to three assault squads with Jump Packs have had time to move into position and can assault anyone who is stuck in close combat with you. This way you don't have to worry about losing your Assault Squads to Overwatch fire.

The game should be decided in two to three turns. After that it's all over but the crying. It seems to me that the only hard counter to this tactic is a lot of 'mech or judicious use of cover or fortifications by the enemy. If you see that kind of setup in front of you you will have to play a more conservative game. But if they have left themselves open to the Raven Guard Alpha Strike Build then by all means show them the error of their ways. What do you guys think?

[el_tigre]

I think we'll be seeing a fair few builds every day for a while, and I'll mostly wait to pass judgement until people have started to play a few games with them. That said I like this idea, fits with the supposed marine way of war, tear the heart out of the enemy before they have a chance to react and then mop up the scraps. Maybe combine with something like a dread in drop pod to strike at armour 14 and such, make sure no stretch of the battlefield is safe.

[Cadian122]

Not too bad, although experience teaches me that the armies that tend to deploy the full 12" on are the combat ones that either have lots of good armour (Marines, for example), or have a ****e ton of numbers (Tyranids). you're also forgetting that the armies start a minimum of 24" apart, so technically you'll be a few mm out of rapid fire range. It'd be interesting to play, but If you were against my guard, I'd lure you forward with a cheap squad (conscripts, spare Infantry squad, for example), then counter-punch with my Rough Riders charging in after a round of "First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire!" on the bulk of my Infantry. now before you change your tactic, creating a tit-for-tat argument on the internet, I'm presenting my thoughts against this tactic. I am happy to hear how you would change it against a dug-in, shooty Guard army.

[Sly]

Cadian: Armies DEPLOY 24" apart, but Ravenguard get a Scout Move after Deployment. So they can be only 12" apart at the start of the game. They could also hide Assault Squads behind the Rhinos and if they go 2nd, they would get to assault on Turn 1.

The problem with this plan is that you might see armies with Plague Marines, Plaguebearers behind an Aegis, etc, that will not take that much damage from Bolters in one turn, then hit you in CC, tie you up, and slowly grind you down. As long as the list has enough LONG range shooting so that when you do see an army that can take a turn of shooting and then clean you out in CC you have the option to just stay back, it may be okay.

[Power Klawz]

There's nothing that says you can't charge on the first turn, or even the first player turn if for some reason there's something in range. You just can't charge with certain units that deployed using certain rules, like scout or infiltrate. If your opponent deployed his assault units normally and you run right in his face turn 1, that's basically everything he ever wanted. You'll get charged on turn 1 and ostensibly stomped into jelly. (depending on the efficacy of the assault units, of course.)

Although with the right units and deployment this tactic could probably prove useful in a more limited scope. Take advantage of errors in your opponent's deployment and isolate one or two units that have overextended for massed turn 1 bolter justice, I'm just not certain that it constitutes a trick good enough to build a list around it.

Luckily the units in question are pretty ubiquitous and so can handle a variety of battlefield roles, if you find yourself in a situation where parking 12 inches away from your opponents army would be a bad idea you don't have to, and tactical marines are still tactical marines and do all the stuff that tactical marines do. (Hold objectives, don't afraid of anything, take punches in the face like champs for 3 rounds etc.)

[Tynskel]

I think this is a fun idea, and one should certainly have their jump pack hiding behind the boxes on the move up. That way, they are ready to counter-counter attack.

[Librarian Harker]

Have you considered using Razorbacks instead of Rhinos. Certainly it would diminish the amount of bolter fire you can put out, only using 6 marines, but then you would get 4 twin linked assault cannons or lascannons supporting your marines, which could really ruin an opponents day. It will also prove a massive distraction to your assault marines, as your opponent will not be able to ignore the Razorbacks and will need to use any heavy weapons he has to take them out.

[Alan Wang]

My first thought is assault squads without JP mount rhinos, and they are almost guaranteed to charge at turn 2. But well, that's not alpha strike at all, and doesn't seen to be devastating enough for a "alpha strike".
Or Rhino/Razorback gun line like mentioned above, but unless you field a aegis, they are not tough enough.
And the last, maybe most possible one, take Shrike, make a squad of Vanguard infiltrate with him. Everyone scout forward and make some pressure on enemy line forcing your opponent to choose target, drop some sternguard or so to take out dice dumping or extremely killy units, and there your go a devastating charge at turn 2.

That's the best I can get, and I may be wrong, or terribly wrong. so C&C welcomed.

[Cadian122]

Cadian: Armies DEPLOY 24" apart, but Ravenguard get a Scout Move after Deployment. So they can be only 12" apart at the start of the game. They could also hide Assault Squads behind the Rhinos and if they go 2nd, they would get to assault on Turn 1.

The problem with this plan is that you might see armies with Plague Marines, Plaguebearers behind an Aegis, etc, that will not take that much damage from Bolters in one turn, then hit you in CC, tie you up, and slowly grind you down. As long as the list has enough LONG range shooting so that when you do see an army that can take a turn of shooting and then clean you out in CC you have the option to just stay back, it may be okay.

Yep, that's my brain confusing rapid fire and charge - but I think the rest of my point is still valid.

[KingCronan]

I agree with everything mentioned above. Mix in some assault cannon razorbacks, sternguard, a drop pod iron clad, and Shrike with some vanguard you got some good shooting turn 1 with a lot of viable threats that will split your opponents fire, then the next turn all your assault marines jump in and get to chopping!

You can even throw a locator beacon on the drop pod for some teleporting Hammernators! Also, i know everybody hates land speeders now a days but I think some good old typhoons might be good, if anything just to play around with. Just throw 2 of them in there you get 4 missile and 6 HB HIGHLY MOBILE shots that can sit back and would probably be ignored for the first few turns because all the stuff the opponent has in their face. Plus, if they get ignored for most of the game you have some guys that can zoom around and contest some objectives

Just gotta say, I love this codex so much. I play smurf marines but this book has so many cool, fun, and interesting options it has me making and looking at lists for all the chapters because they seem like so much fun!