The How To Whine Thread.

[Mr Mystery]

So, once again a Chaos player has got their knickers in a twist because having complained as a group for several years they were just 'Spikey Marines', they are now no longer 'Spikey Marines', and now want all the toys Marines have, plus their own, and probably for 20% less points.

Yes folks, the season of whining is back upon us, following the brief, inoffensive lull that was of course Apocalypse.

But it's just such aimless whining. I was thinking we might put our heads together, and show them the true way to whine. Here's one for starters....

1. A whine is for life, not just release day. No matter what you're whining about, keep it up vague, or even contradictory. That way, even when you ostensibly get exactly what you wanted, you can act like you didn't, by pulling up a post from another time when you demanded the opposite of what you've just got, neatly ignoring the dozen or so whines demanding precisely what you've just got.

[eldargal]

CSM players have always been more whiney then eldar players, not sure how we got a reputation for it. not to mention it is just their rules that are a bit problematic, we've been the whipping boys and girls to make other factions look tough for most of the past decade while they are made out to be the Big Bad.

[Mr Mystery]

That's not a proper contribution! And I have apologised for my comments about Eldar players being whiney in another thread. Unreserved as well!

2. Just remember, nothing is ever good enough. So you've just got a new unit, cast in solid gold. It's a flier, with transport, which is also an assault vehicle, and AV15. It's armed to the teeth, and costs 50 points. But hey. Marines have assault cannons. Therefore your new toy is clearly worthless, because it's S6 Ap2 Heavy 12 Twinlinked gun o'death doesn't rend.

[DrLove42]

To be fair there is a certain amount that can be complained about.

They got told they could't have unique chapters and stuff as it would be too complex, yet they were able to do it for regular muhreens.

Grav guns that have existed since the Heresy, apparantly only loyalists remember how to use them....

3 - Make sure you extensivly whine about rumours, things before they're confirmed or you've played against them. All whining must be based on second hand internet hyperbole

[Kaptain Badrukk]

And don't forget that ANY decision ever made by GW is about getting more money out of you. E.G.
"Hell they only re-vamped the toilets in Bugmans so they could act as a draw to all those poor suckers who aren't used to nice toilets. Then when you're all dazzled by your trip to the loo they'll mug you with sales speak and a quick whizz will become a £300 army you never came in for."

[Wolfshade]

To quote Patrick Moore:

1. Never say anything clearly. When writing to jobsworths and timeservers, word your letter so that it could mean almost anything…or nothing.

2. Don’t be legible. Always write letters by hand, and make your verbose scrawl as impenetrable as possible.

3. Garble your opponent’s name. Misread the signature. If the correspondence is signed ‘M. Harris’, address your reply to ‘N. Hayes’ or ‘W. Hardy’. Don’t get too flippant though — the penpushers might lack a sense of humour, but if you write to ‘M. Hedgehog’, they will sense a legpull.

4. Give fake references. If you have a letter from the tax office, ref: EH/4/PNG/H8, mark your reply with some other code in the same format, such as DC/5/IMH/R9. This should ensure that the taxman wastes minutes, or hopefully hours, rooting for a file that doesn’t exist.

5. The same goes for dates. Get them slightly wrong, every time.


Stamp away: And make sure it's in the wrong place

6. Follow up your fakes. Write to request a reply to letters that you haven’t sent, and include bogus reference numbers. This is a surefire timewaster and might even, if your Twitmarsh is of a sensitive disposition, reduce him to tears.

7. Never pay the right amount. Include a discrepancy in every envelope — never too much, but always more than a few pence. A sum between £1.20 and £2.80 is recommended. Then you can start an interminable correspondence to reclaim the overpayment (or dispute the underpayment).

8. When enclosing a cheque, staple it to the letter. With two staples. Or three. Right in the middle of the cheque. At the least, you’ll waste someone’s time — at best, you might wreck their computer.

9. As a point of honour, never give up on a correspondence before at least six pointless letters have been exchanged. Think big and aim for double figures.

10. If a postage-paid envelope is not supplied by your Twitmarsh, send off your reply without a stamp. The bureaucrats will have to pay much more at the other end


Obviously we will need to adapt some of these.

[Mr Mystery]

Don't forget bizarre comparrisons with unrelated things.

And never, ever apply any kind of perspective to a situation. This goes hand in hand with the vaguer the better

[Wolfshade]

I don't know what you are saying, the new SoB Codex is soo OP the sky is falling! Matt Ward knows nothing about rule design, the sculpts are rubbish and the women don't even look feminine with their subtle chests and more natural outlines.

[Mr Mystery]

Nothing is ever subjective. Never, ever forget it is you, and you alone, that GW must please. Everyone else is just a parasite leeching onto your hobby. Your personal hobby. Therefore, everything you don't like is a custom and carefully crafted insult to you and you alone.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

And don't forget to respond in garbled half-english net speak. Otherwise i don't have to spend an extra minute or ten reading your post and finding out what;
A) The words are
B) Punctuation you FAILED to use
C) You actually mean
D) That you're the dull-witted cellar dwelling troglodyte durp-baby of lax parenting and too much time on 4Chan
E) That the best evidence you have to back up this claim is that you read it elsewhere on (shudder) Teh Interwebs.
Then and only then is my day incomplete.
And don't forget that when someone contradicts you with facts, figures or a carefully thought out counter-point you have to respond in a borderline insulting way while still now actually bringing a counter argument to the table more coherent than "You're wrong because I'm right!"
For the unhappy people who don't do these things, thank you for bringing something to the discourse.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Whatever's happened to My Army is the worst thing ever, My Army is always treated worse than those other armies, because GW Hates My Army.

Oh, and also, GW's own background for their own game is Wrong, and it should be what I Want, because I'm Right, not the people who Wrote The Game.

[Gotthammer]

Ugh, this thread sucks. I mean there are other threads about whining and they had far more options about what we could whine about - if you want to be competitive here it's all mono-build and of course you have to complain about the latest 'dex or you haven't got a chance. Typical cash grab by GW once again, worst thing I've seen since failco$t but I only play WarMachine any more and sold all my 40k stuff on ebay so good luck with your playskool unbalanced game for kids.

[Mr Mystery]

Tsk! Not one of you has suggested an utterly one sided fix to your perceived problem!

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Ugh, this thread sucks. I mean there are other threads about whining and they had far more options about what we could whine about - if you want to be competitive here it's all mono-build and of course you have to complain about the latest 'dex or you haven't got a chance. Typical cash grab by GW once again, worst thing I've seen since failco$t but I only play WarMachine any more and sold all my 40k stuff on ebay so good luck with your playskool unbalanced game for kids.

Did you just META-WHINE?
Ok, I'm bow before the master!

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Gotthammer wins. But we knew they would, because Gotthammer is GW's poster boy. Gotthammer's fluff is a mary-sue ridden perversion of established lore. Also their rules are OP. Nerf Gotthammer in an FAQ.

[Dave Mcturk]

i was intrigued... but i spend my whining time about work related issues !
;-{

[Psychosplodge]

I was hoping for a how to wine thread...

[Mr Mystery]

LURN2PSLNOOB!

Just like GW. Theh carn't spel!

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Mystery needs to hire proofreaders. A child could catch his many errors.

[Deadlift]

I was hoping for a how to wine thread...

Me too, I have a bottle of Faustino at home with my name on it and was going to share my anticipation :)
Fantastic with steak.

Horsemen unite :D

[Mr Mystery]

Mystery needs to hire proofreaders. A child could catch his many errors.

Stop white knighting!

[Wildeybeast]

I prefer niche whining. The 'pretending not whine' whine or the 'put upon martyr' whine. Goes something like 'man I wish GW hated my army. I wish they cared enough to eff it up. They don't, we just get completely ignored. Forever.' The SoB vintage is a perennial favourite, especially with the Tau whines having dropped dramatically in value of late. The New World Whines are worth a look too, with the Athel Loren & Breton varieties being particularly ripe.

[SotonShades]

Don't forget to mention that GW is just gearing its new releases against the American tournament meta, rather than just balancing it themselves. Oh, and that the prices in your local currency aren't as good as the exchange rate, even considering GW doesn't bother to try to keep their price increases in line with inflation (unless you are an Aussie, in which case that is a legitimate whine AND all the wildlife is trying to kill you). Also, I have been playing 40k for 37 years so I should demand your respect and we should all go back to 2nd Ed.

[Mr Mystery]

Don't forget a sad devotion to an army or army book that went out of print before you were born!

[Gotthammer]

Gotthammer's fluff is a mary-sue ridden perversion of established lore.

Ah, someone who reads my blog!


Also, I am GW's postergirl :p

[Wildeybeast]

(unless you are an Aussie, in which case that is a legitimate whine AND all the wildlife is trying to kill you).

Is it a whine if it is legitimate? Is it not just a valid complaint?

[YorkNecromancer]

Grav guns that have existed since the Heresy, apparantly only loyalists remember how to use them....

So I gave my World Eaters grav weapons, ancient, precious technology that requires care to be maintained. They attacked me for offering them such a "TINY-MAN FRUITY CLUB" complaining "FRUITY CLUB NO EVEN HAVE CHAIN BLADE!" before running towards the enemy armed only with a brick and sheer enthusiasm.

After I healed, I gave one to the Death Guard. Its delicate electronics rotted within moments, rendered useless.

I gave one to a Rubric Marine. His lack of free will and concomitant inability to follow the complex steps necessary for its maintainance meant it looked nice, but couldn't shoot.

Finally, I gave one to the Emperor's Child.

He put it in... places. So now the barrel's all gunked up.

All joking aside, the thing that strikes me is that Chaos players kind of want to have their cake and eat it. They see that Chaos Marines are just like regular Marines, except with daemonic powarz.

Except they aren't. They're gibbering lunatics to a man, and armies (even in 40K) require logistics. Chaos doesn't have the full Adeptus Mechanicus. It has a small array of Hereteks who can't quite supply the munitions that Chaos Marines require. Those few Chaos Forge Worlds that d exist are busy supplying bullets to their own Titans legions, because the thing about Chaos? Its followers are selfish. 'Might makes right' is all well and good on an individual level, but doesn't bode well for co-operation.

So yeah, Chaos gets Daemons, and whizzy powarz... but at the price of effective weaponry. All they have is what they can salvage, and leftover scraps from the Heresy that can't be called relics. This is because while the Astartes have dedicated servants to maintain their precious archaeotech, Chaos Marines have to look after their own stuff, and they can't BECAUSE THEY'RE INSANE! Lest we forget - that is a weakness, not a strength.

Chaos has very successful individuals at the top, but unreliable, self-serving lunatics at the bottom. The Imperium has corruption and inefficiency at the top, but highly dedicated and loyal troops at the bottom. They don't have to worry about where the bullets come from; Chaos does.

So no, it doesn't make sense that Chaos Marines should get everything the Imperium does. Maybe for one-off characters, but not for the army as a whole. Alternative versions of Imperial kit? Sure. But it makes no more sense for Chaos to have Imperial kit than it does for the Imperium to have Forgefiends.

[Mr Mystery]

Also, don't forget to only pay attention to the rich, extensive background when you feel it supports your demand for ever harder and cheaper units. The rest of the time, state it's only for people too weak to play like they are firmly possessed of a Y chromosome!

[Nabterayl]

armies (even in 40K) require logistics. Chaos doesn't have the full Adeptus Mechanicus. It has a small array of Hereteks who can't quite supply the munitions that Chaos Marines require. Those few Chaos Forge Worlds that d exist are busy supplying bullets to their own Titans legions, because the thing about Chaos? Its followers are selfish. 'Might makes right' is all well and good on an individual level, but doesn't bode well for co-operation.

So yeah, Chaos gets Daemons, and whizzy powarz... but at the price of effective weaponry. All they have is what they can salvage, and leftover scraps from the Heresy that can't be called relics. This is because while the Astartes have dedicated servants to maintain their precious archaeotech, Chaos Marines have to look after their own stuff, and they can't BECAUSE THEY'RE INSANE! Lest we forget - that is a weakness, not a strength.

Chaos has very successful individuals at the top, but unreliable, self-serving lunatics at the bottom. The Imperium has corruption and inefficiency at the top, but highly dedicated and loyal troops at the bottom. They don't have to worry about where the bullets come from; Chaos does.

So no, it doesn't make sense that Chaos Marines should get everything the Imperium does. Maybe for one-off characters, but not for the army as a whole. Alternative versions of Imperial kit? Sure. But it makes no more sense for Chaos to have Imperial kit than it does for the Imperium to have Forgefiends.
Ahhhh, somebody finally said it. I am at peace. I declare the internets to agree with me!

[Mr Mystery]

Ahhhh, somebody finally said it. I am at peace. I declare the internets to agree with me!

Careful.....you might break the intertubes...

[Cap'nSmurfs]

YorkN wins. Now, back to this whine and cheese party.

Apologies, Gotthammer!

[Psychosplodge]

LURN2PSLNOOB!

Just like GW. Theh carn't spel!

And I thought it was you having a spelling fail...



Fantastic with steak.

mmmm steak...Now I'm hungry again.




Finally, I gave one to the Emperor's Child.

He put it in... places. So now the barrel's all gunked up.


I've seen enough hentai....

[Cap'nSmurfs]

You shouldn't take that unit because it's not competitive. I know this because a self-appointed internet personality told me so.

[Mr Mystery]

You shouldn't take that unit because it's not competitive. I know this because a self-appointed internet personality told me so.

LRN2RAWNOOB!

Correct term is sub-optimal.

Solid c- on my utterly arbitrary and unexplained scale....

[daboarder]

Can I just say,

As a disgruntled loud mouth chaos space marine player I find this thread offensive.


Also you need to get better at whining, get a bad codex 2 edition in a row, its a good way to practice :p

[Mr Mystery]

It's not about the issue, it's about the individual :p

And that's what we're making fun of.

[SotonShades]

Is it a whine if it is legitimate? Is it not just a valid complaint?

valid complaints don't get brought up in every discussion, even when the discussion isn't directly about that topic ;) Whilst the complaint may well be valid, when it gets trotted out over and over it becomes a legitimate whine :)

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Thismisn't about whether a complaint is legitimate or not, it's about whether it's repetitive enough for parody. You'd know that if you weren't a noob Space Marine player and played a real army, like my homebrew Squats-Hrud hybrid list. Squats4Lyfe! Never Forget!

[Mr Mystery]

Suqats ar4 Hobbyhipster.

Real men play Zoats. Using the Warmahordes rules. In GW. Because despite it being their property...they can't tell me what to do. And if they try, I'll write a scathing attack on the interwebs, safelty protected by my anonymity.

[Wolfshade]

Psh, ever since they nerfed space Slann there has been no point...

[Mr Mystery]

If you're whining about the prices, and rules, at the same time, don't forget to strengthen your argument by pointing out the thousands and thousands of (insert appropriate local currency here) you've spent on a game you clearly don't enjoy and want to see deaded.

Never ever have the temerity to actually enjoy your hobby. In fact, best find a further website, so you can whine about your whining, lest that develop into a hobby you accidentally enjoy.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Pfff, we're not in this hobby to have fun, we're here to win. Get with the program, fluffbunny.

[Psychosplodge]

This is whining...


http://youtu.be/csPPqdbcVwM

[Mr Mystery]

That Pony doesn't even rend!!!!

[Psychosplodge]

I know!

[Mr Mystery]

Another hamster molestation by GW right there! When will they learn, the only person capable of writing a balanced ruleset is me. And my mates. Though mostly me. In fact, never mind my mates. Despite absolutely no track record, and frankly dubious aptitude if you consider my earlier demands for CSM to all have a 1+ save, and cost 3 points each, only I can save this game. And I'll change it's name and basic rules too.

Chaos Wins On a 1+ 40,000 will happen!


(feel free to insert any given army name in place of Chaos!)

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Because most of the internet is made up of walking examples of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.