Grav weapons and mixed units

[Tyrendian]

Sooo... how do Grav weapons work against units with mixed Armour Saves (like a Broadside team with drones)? There's nothing about than in the codex entry, and neither does it really fall under "majority Toughness" or some such, since it's not about Toughness...

I'd still play it that way, if just for lack of a better idea really... what do you guys think?

[mr_draken]

It goes on armor save yes? and we take saves on the closest model, so logically id say you take it that way, or majority save for the unit if you wanted to be more even with it and less prone to cheese, (space wolves sticking wolves at the front so its 5s(?) to wound them.

[daboarder]

draken you don't allowcate wounds till after you have wounded a unit, as such you don't just "take the closest"

I personally feel that Majority sv is the way to go until/if we get clarification.

[mr_draken]

apologies, i should not write replies while i have a screaming child on my lap. Thinking back on this less screaming child, i agree, id say it would be majority for sure.

[jgebi]

well I tend to go model by model but I play smaller games where even a dead guardsmen is a sacrifice

[Tushan]

Sooo... how do Grav weapons work against units with mixed Armour Saves (like a Broadside team with drones)? There's nothing about than in the codex entry, and neither does it really fall under "majority Toughness" or some such, since it's not about Toughness...

I'd still play it that way, if just for lack of a better idea really... what do you guys think?

Id go majority toughness - have you sent a request for clarity to [email protected] ?

[Sly]

draken you don't allowcate wounds till after you have wounded a unit, as such you don't just "take the closest"

I personally feel that Majority sv is the way to go until/if we get clarification.

I agree. There is no real way to figure it out otherwise. It wouldn't be fair to throw in a no-armor model added to the back of a Terminator unit and then use the "highest armor save", or conversely, so majority save is the only fair way.

[Tushan]

Sooo... how do Grav weapons work against units with mixed Armour Saves (like a Broadside team with drones)? There's nothing about than in the codex entry, and neither does it really fall under "majority Toughness" or some such, since it's not about Toughness...

I'd still play it that way, if just for lack of a better idea really... what do you guys think?

Id treat the roll as a normal roll to wound substituting majority armour for majority toughness - have you sent the request for clarity to [email protected] ?

[Asuryan]

draken you don't allowcate wounds till after you have wounded a unit, as such you don't just "take the closest"

I personally feel that Majority sv is the way to go until/if we get clarification.

I think its kind of funny because i know some people will want to have it go by closest model because of people putting 2+ armor saves out front to tank shots, and to them i will agree with them and then put Eldrad or my Farseer out front his is non existing armor frolicking up the field while doing my "you can't hurt me dance". otherwise yeah majority save.

[Lord Krungharr]

Those new Grav weapons should definitely wound vs the majority armor save of the unit, as most weapons wound against the majority Toughness of the unit, or some other majority stat. Unless a weapon specifically can target a single model within a unit that is, but I don't think Grav weapons do that.

Grav weapons are appealing vs armored foes, and being AP2 can certainly put the hurt on Infantry; but vs Daemons with mostly invul saves they only would on a 6, and Daemons get their invul saves vs AP2 anyway, so that's kinda worthless in that case. I think they only do anything vs vehicles on a 6 though, which also kinda stinks. So I don't think we'll see whole Grav weapon armies, but a sprinkling, which is of course generally the wiser way.

[Vangrail]

In the few games ive played we did majority. It worked out well.

[Patrick Boyle]

Those new Grav weapons should definitely wound vs the majority armor save of the unit, as most weapons wound against the majority Toughness of the unit, or some other majority stat. Unless a weapon specifically can target a single model within a unit that is, but I don't think Grav weapons do that.

Grav weapons are appealing vs armored foes, and being AP2 can certainly put the hurt on Infantry; but vs Daemons with mostly invul saves they only would on a 6, and Daemons get their invul saves vs AP2 anyway, so that's kinda worthless in that case. I think they only do anything vs vehicles on a 6 though, which also kinda stinks. So I don't think we'll see whole Grav weapon armies, but a sprinkling, which is of course generally the wiser way.

I wouldn't knock their AV abilities so quick. Sure, they only do damage on a 6, but that's to any armor rating. Also, rather than a glancing or penetrating hit, they specifically cause immobilized and loss of a hull point, which to my reading implies no cover or invul for the vehicle, as those saves are specifically granted against glancing and penetrating hits unless I'm mistaken...I feel like that really needs an FAQ to clarify. The main limiting factor comes down to range. 2 shots at 9" if you moved or 3 and 18" if you stood still, unless you're a bike, is kinda iffy.

[DarkLink]

They also immobilize vehicles if they do any damage, which in some cases is just as good as wrecking them. Immobilize a Wave Serpent, and then it's an immobile gun that doesn't get a jink save anymore. Immobilized Rhinos, Land Raiders, etc, are all near worthless unless they're sitting on top of an objective, and even then you can just pop them later if someone hides inside them.

Grav Cannons also reroll armor penetration thanks to Grav Amps. So Centurions kill tanks really well.

[Zachar]

Until the faq comes grav gunes are little OP against vehicles as they do not get save against grav gun (since there is no glance nor penetration hit just effect)

[Denzark]

In the few games ive played we did majority. It worked out well.

You've managed to play a 'few' games since the release? good skills to you.

[Avlaen]

keep in mind doing it model by model brakes the phase order of shooting. that being ALL saves are done AFTER all to wound rolls are done. going model by model would have to go back and forth, and grav would be the only weapon that does that so it should be majority save IMO, only problem then is what if 2 save types are tied.

[Asuryan]

keep in mind doing it model by model brakes the phase order of shooting. that being ALL saves are done AFTER all to wound rolls are done. going model by model would have to go back and forth, and grav would be the only weapon that does that so it should be majority save IMO, only problem then is what if 2 save types are tied.

probably the same thing you would do if the toughness were tied, use the highest.

[Avlaen]

but whats the "highest" 5+ or 3+?

[tallguynsc]

Ties usually go to the defender, so the 'highest' in that case would be 5+.

[Tynskel]

Until the faq comes grav gunes are little OP against vehicles as they do not get save against grav gun (since there is no glance nor penetration hit just effect)

that's totally a rules abuse. If you look at the consistency between rules FAQs and implementation, the Grav-Gun follows all the standard LoS and determinations for Cover Saves. You get a cover save from Grav Weapons.

There is no mention anywhere in the weapon the denial of any save, only an AP value.

[DarkLink]

Yes, I believe that was the consensus of the thread on the subject. It's actually the act of shooting that normally generates a cover save, even if it isn't explicitly a pen or glance.

[Asuryan]

but whats the "highest" 5+ or 3+?

sorry should have been clearer with that post, but I alone out of my friends see that 5 > 3 so a 3+ armor save is lower than a 5+ armor save, which when I say stuff like that confuses people to no end.

[Avlaen]

its not your fault its partly GW look at protect from an eldar spell its +1 to your armour and that makes a 3+ go to a 2+