Blood Ravens 1000 Beginner

[Learn2Eel]

Hey guys!

Say I was wanting to help some people out in the future with determining an army to pick for WH40k, and the subject invariably went to a lot of hobbyists first experience with the license; the Dawn of War series. I've actually realized that the Blood Ravens forces employed in the Aurelian Crusade (the original Dawn of War 2 campaign) against the Tyranids seem to make for a well balanced starter army. Combined with the new codex, and I think starting up a 1000 point army with these models is not only a good way for players to kick off some different play-styles, but also to attach individuality to their models as well as the personality of the Heroes of Aurelia. So what do you guys think of this army list, with regards to it being a beginners force? To me, it will really draw in Dawn of War 2 players and it should serve as a nice start for any Marine force. Cheers for any input. As a note, I went for Ultramarine Chapter Tactics as I think they are the least "you are this chapter" kind of tactics, more or less what I would expect a more generic chapter to have. As much as Blood Ravens favour Librarians, Jonah Orion doesn't pop up until Chaos Rising unfortunately.

Blood Ravens of Aurelia (Pre Apex of Tyrannic Invasion)
Chapter Tactics = Ultramarines

HQ
Captain w/ thunder hammer, jump pack, artificer armour – 150 (the unnamed Captain)

Elites
Dreadnought w/ venerable upgrade, assault cannon – 145 (Davian Thule)

Troops
Tactical Squad (10) w/ veteran sergeant, plasma gun, plasma cannon – 180 (Tarkus)
Scout Squad (10) w/ veteran sergeant, sniper rifles – 130 (Cyrus)

Fast Attack
Assault Squad (10) w/ veteran sergeant, power sword, two flamers – 205 (Thaddeus)

Heavy Support
Devastators (10) w/ veteran sergeant, four heavy bolters – 190 (Avitus)

= 1000 points

Again, remember this isn't supposed to be competitive on any level. This is supposed to be a decent and balanced starter force for inexperienced players who really like the Blood Ravens that is entirely theme-driven.

[ElectricPaladin]

Honestly, it doesn't seem like a bad list at all. Quite straightforward and easy for a beginner to master. Are you going to come up with equivalent lists for the other factions involved?

[interrogator_chaplain]

If you're going theme driven then perhaps going with a Librarian as your commander. Blood Ravens have a big focus on the Librarium with Librarians taking the roles of captains and even Chapter Masters. Perhaps swapping out the Assault Cannon on the Dreadnought for a twin-linked Lascannon for a little more anti-tank oomph.

[Learn2Eel]

If you're going theme driven then perhaps going with a Librarian as your commander. Blood Ravens have a big focus on the Librarium with Librarians taking the roles of captains and even Chapter Masters. Perhaps swapping out the Assault Cannon on the Dreadnought for a twin-linked Lascannon for a little more anti-tank oomph.

Unfortunately, for theme purposes, I can't use a Librarian unless I switch the list to post-Tyrannic invasion; the force in the Aurelian Crusade was led by an unnamed Captain. As for Thule, the only ranged weapon he could take in Dawn of War 2 until Chaos Rising came out was an assault cannon, sadly.


Honestly, it doesn't seem like a bad list at all. Quite straightforward and easy for a beginner to master. Are you going to come up with equivalent lists for the other factions involved?

I'll see if I can! It is tough to nail down a specific time period for each army though. I.e. should I have the Tyranid force just after Thule was nearly murdered (have a Tyranid Prime leading it) or maybe closer to the end of the invasion with a Hive Tyrant thrown in?

[Obispal]

The list's pretty solid but it'll be a whitewash if someone brings a land raider or a flyer.
But I really like a Fluffy list so +1 from me :cool:

[interrogator_chaplain]

Unfortunately, for theme purposes, I can't use a Librarian unless I switch the list to post-Tyrannic invasion; the force in the Aurelian Crusade was led by an unnamed Captain. As for Thule, the only ranged weapon he could take in Dawn of War 2 until Chaos Rising came out was an assault cannon, sadly.


I got a little hasty with my commenting so I missed that part when I put it down, I kept it down because I was going with the overall theme of the Blood Ravens and they're overall comfort with psykers, but as I see what you're going for I understand your list. :)

Although at this point, I could glibly point out that you shouldn't be using squad sizes larger than 4. :rolleyes:

[Vangrail]

You have done what i always wanted to do as a second marine army! Good job would glad to see pics when its done :)

[kire]

Unfortunately, for theme purposes, I can't use a Librarian unless I switch the list to post-Tyrannic invasion; the force in the Aurelian Crusade was led by an unnamed Captain. As for Thule, the only ranged weapon he could take in Dawn of War 2 until Chaos Rising came out was an assault cannon, sadly.



I'll see if I can! It is tough to nail down a specific time period for each army though. I.e. should I have the Tyranid force just after Thule was nearly murdered (have a Tyranid Prime leading it) or maybe closer to the end of the invasion with a Hive Tyrant thrown in?

the odd thing about blood ravens is that they in some ways have two backgrounds. they have the Dawn of War background you appear to be fallowing witch was never meant to be cannon and contains numerous contradictions with the 40K universe as a whole. (don't take that the wrong way as the 40K universe has contradictions with the 40K universe as a whole) however due to the success of Dawn of war caused GW to place them in to the cannon 40K universe using an Index astartes article (back when white dwarf was good) and later in the Thousand sons novel.

be aware of the discrepancy when people tell you about Blood ravens reliance on librarians and the 5th company being called the fated, these are things from GW's blood ravens not Dawn of War blood ravens. there both fine ways to run an army, just be aware

[Patrick Boyle]

the odd thing about blood ravens is that they in some ways have two backgrounds. they have the Dawn of War background you appear to be fallowing witch was never meant to be cannon and contains numerous contradictions with the 40K universe as a whole. (don't take that the wrong way as the 40K universe has contradictions with the 40K universe as a whole) however due to the success of Dawn of war caused GW to place them in to the cannon 40K universe using an Index astartes article (back when white dwarf was good) and later in the Thousand sons novel.

be aware of the discrepancy when people tell you about Blood ravens reliance on librarians and the 5th company being called the fated, these are things from GW's blood ravens not Dawn of War blood ravens. there both fine ways to run an army, just be aware

I don't think it's entirely right to say there's two 'separate' Blood Ravens in the fluff. There was no prior fluff for DoW to mess with. Prior to 2004, the year DoW1 and coinciding Dawn of War novels were released, going by the sources cited on the Lexicanum's Blood Ravens page the only prior mention of the Blood Ravens was the 1989 Warhammer 40k: Compendium that had a bunch of Rogue Trader lists compiled in one book, and even at that it's only in the list of citations, it looks like whatever line used it was removed. DoW1 and its expansion Dark Crusade took a chapter with no real background, and gave it the start of one, then came the Index Astartes article in 2007 that established the Librarian fluff, the fleet based nature of the chapter, the Chapter Master/Chief Librarian dual role, the Fated, and all of that other stuff. It also kept the chapter battlecry "Knowledge is Power," and includes the story of how Angelos called exterminatus on his own home world(while mislabeling him Chapter Master...).

Dawn of War Soulstorm, which came after, along with DoW2 and all of its expansion just took that stuff and ran with it. Sure, DoW, even after the Index Astartes article, didn't really touch on the Librarian issue much aside from Kyras, but it's still there, and the games after it keep aspects like the fleet based nature and so on. And none of the games have ever touched the 5th Company, it's all been 3rd and 4th, so it's not so odd we've never seen the Fated, if they are still around in chapter fluff.

[kire]

I don't think it's entirely right to say there's two 'separate' Blood Ravens in the fluff. There was no prior fluff for DoW to mess with. Prior to 2004, the year DoW1 and coinciding Dawn of War novels were released, going by the sources cited on the Lexicanum's Blood Ravens page the only prior mention of the Blood Ravens was the 1989 Warhammer 40k: Compendium that had a bunch of Rogue Trader lists compiled in one book, and even at that it's only in the list of citations, it looks like whatever line used it was removed. DoW1 and its expansion Dark Crusade took a chapter with no real background, and gave it the start of one, then came the Index Astartes article in 2007 that established the Librarian fluff, the fleet based nature of the chapter, the Chapter Master/Chief Librarian dual role, the Fated, and all of that other stuff. It also kept the chapter battlecry "Knowledge is Power," and includes the story of how Angelos called exterminatus on his own home world(while mislabeling him Chapter Master...).

Dawn of War Soulstorm, which came after, along with DoW2 and all of its expansion just took that stuff and ran with it. Sure, DoW, even after the Index Astartes article, didn't really touch on the Librarian issue much aside from Kyras, but it's still there, and the games after it keep aspects like the fleet based nature and so on. And none of the games have ever touched the 5th Company, it's all been 3rd and 4th, so it's not so odd we've never seen the Fated, if they are still around in chapter fluff.

i'm not saying the dawn of war games "messed" with anything that already existed i'm saying that when the dawn of war games were made Relic explicitly stated that the games were not intended to be canonical. when they became popular GW wanted to have its cake and eat it to so it took some elements of the game and used it as a foundation for the in universe blood ravens. if you try to reconcile the Dawn of war games and the Blood ravens omnibus with the rest of the 40K universe you end up with serious problems

[chicop76]

Is it me or you can cover most of that list if you buy black reach. I like it. Would be interesting for the +2 armour assault marine soaking up hits towards the assault squad.

[Patrick Boyle]

i'm not saying the dawn of war games "messed" with anything that already existed i'm saying that when the dawn of war games were made Relic explicitly stated that the games were not intended to be canonical. when they became popular GW wanted to have its cake and eat it to so it took some elements of the game and used it as a foundation for the in universe blood ravens. if you try to reconcile the Dawn of war games and the Blood ravens omnibus with the rest of the 40K universe you end up with serious problems

The problems with the novels, and why they're typically ignored, is Goto was making stuff up along the way rather than even reading just the Codex entries for things he was talking about(backflipping terminators and multilasers for everyone, woo!). They also came before the Index Astartes article, if I'm not mistaken, so I partially view that article as GW coming in and cleaning up Goto's mess. The games themselves do some odd things(Daemons of Khorne dealing with chaos sorcerers/librarians mostly) fluff wise but that aside they don't really trample fluff so badly as to be irreconcilable with at least the Index Astartes article, do they? It all works for me anyway.


Is it me or you can cover most of that list if you buy black reach. I like it. Would be interesting for the +2 armour assault marine soaking up hits towards the assault squad.

Eh, not really, all blackreach gets you are a Dreadnought and Tactical squad, both of which have the wrong wargear to fit this list.

[chicop76]

The problems with the novels, and why they're typically ignored, is Goto was making stuff up along the way rather than even reading just the Codex entries for things he was talking about(backflipping terminators and multilasers for everyone, woo!). They also came before the Index Astartes article, if I'm not mistaken, so I partially view that article as GW coming in and cleaning up Goto's mess. The games themselves do some odd things(Daemons of Khorne dealing with chaos sorcerers/librarians mostly) fluff wise but that aside they don't really trample fluff so badly as to be irreconcilable with at least the Index Astartes article, do they? It all works for me anyway.



Eh, not really, all blackreach gets you are a Dreadnought and Tactical squad, both of which have the wrong wargear to fit this list.


How so? The Tac squad in black reach comes with plasma pistol and plasma cannon. I don't remember a dreanought, but it does come with terminators. I got it for my son as a starter for his Dark Angels. It doesn't come with a dread since I have to let him borrow mine, but I remember the plasma weapons.

[Patrick Boyle]

How so? The Tac squad in black reach comes with plasma pistol and plasma cannon. I don't remember a dreanought, but it does come with terminators. I got it for my son as a starter for his Dark Angels. It doesn't come with a dread since I have to let him borrow mine, but I remember the plasma weapons.

The Dark Vengeance box, the 6th edition starter set, has a tac squad with Plasma everywhere, yes. The Assault on Blackreach box, the 5th ed starter set, is a tac squad with flamer and missile launcher and a dread with multi-melta.

[chicop76]

My bad. Meant to say Dark Vengeance, too many editions.