Up or Down Wound/HP counting with dice

[Pullo]

Maybe I'm just raging against the heavens but have been watching a few batreps via the interweb recently and one thing has struck me that I see all the time in my casual play as well. The way people track wounds and hull points with dice. I for one am a count down player; but then I run up on the count up players and it just baffles me how they can see this as a better way! If you used individual counters rather than sides to a die you wouldn't add a counter too the pile sitting next to your multi-wound model.

What's the concensus?

[Mr Mystery]

For the sake of clarity to my opponent, I always count down. That way, they can easily see and risk assess the oncoming unit. Ditto with hull points.

It's the same theory as picking out your misses/fails to wound, rather than the successful rolls. Prevents cheating too.

[Pssyche]

Mr Mystery has it spot on.


I have three Wounds left...
I have two Wounds left...
I have one Wound left...
My model is dead...

Not too difficult is it?

[SotonShades]

I prefer to show the number that the model still has. That seems to make more sense to me, and also means my Big Gun dice show a giant Mechanicum Logo when my tanks are on their last hull point.

[DarkLink]

Yes. I don't care how many wounds I've done, I care how many more I need to do.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I count down. It just seems the natural way to do it.

[plonka2000]

I'm a count down player and I regularly play with a count up player.
I am also baffled as to why some people think this way, but each to their own...

Personally, I prefer to count down because its simpler and means I wont forget, and I do honestly forget rules or wounds sometimes.

[Cactus]

I mark the wounds I've suffered, although I admit, it's probably better to mark the wounds remaining.

[Wildeybeast]

I wasn't even aware people counted up. The only reason I can think of for doing that is as a beardy tactic to make it less clear to your opponent how many wounds you have left. What do I care how many wounds I have done? If the damn thing is still alive I need to know how many more to finish it off!

[Nogle]

guess i'm one of those "beardy players"that counts wounds that have been dealt. ive been playing since they early 2nd. and counting down has only shown up in the last 5 years or so. Ive always wondered, for the people that count down, because it's natural, do all of your models start with a dice on it showing that they have full wounds?

Also I play with more experienced players, most of us know how many wounds/HP most things have. escpecially HP. small things-2, tanks 3, LR 4. its pretty standard. Yes, I know there are exceptions

[DarkLink]

I sometimes do it too, actually, because I've got those little crystal gem thingies that I sometimes use as wound markers (it's an easy way of marking which Paladins have been wounded), and sometimes I use them for my characters as well. But generally, counting down is better.

[DemonFerret]

Im a count up player. Not to cheat, but thats just the way my mind works.

[Pullo]

Kind of on a side note on the same topic, next to the model or off to the side? A tourney I played in a couple of weeks ago, a player had dice his counters (different die for each of his multi-wound models) off to the side. Personally I wouldn't be able to remember which goes to which but then again I generally only have one maybe two in my army; he was playing deamons so he had 4 or 5.

[KrewL RaiN]

I put a red glass pebble by my model when it gets wounded. I'd rather use a marker then dice in case the die gets knocked over or accidentally picked up.

[daboarder]

Kind of on a side note on the same topic, next to the model or off to the side? A tourney I played in a couple of weeks ago, a player had dice his counters (different die for each of his multi-wound models) off to the side. Personally I wouldn't be able to remember which goes to which but then again I generally only have one maybe two in my army; he was playing deamons so he had 4 or 5.

Definitely next to the model.

[DWest]

Ive always wondered, for the people that count down, because it's natural, do all of your models start with a dice on it showing that they have full wounds?
I count down, but I do not place a die on anything until it has been damaged, as dice indicate to my mind that the unit has been hit.

Also, I think I've seen before some company makes transparent plastic "corrals" that have a 25 or 40mm socket and a dice socket on them, so you can drag your dice along with your character, does that sound familiar to anyone?

[Sly]

I put a red glass pebble by my model when it gets wounded. I'd rather use a marker then dice in case the die gets knocked over or accidentally picked up.

Same here. Counting down is better conceptually, but for game mechanics it seems easier to put a non-die marker next to the model, on it, or on its base, than to put extra dice on the table. Especially since dice get knocked around.

If I'm ever in the mood to take the time, I'll probably glue some small magnets on the bases of my multi-wound creatures, and probably use small nails with skulls on them to store its full HPs on it at the start of the battle. But I'll probably never have the time.

[MajorWesJanson]

I use d4s and count up. It makes more sense to me to only put dice on stuff that has taken a wound, and track wounds taken. d4s are perfect since I don't play demons or nids, so the most Ihave is 5 wounds/hull points. Add the d4 for 1 wound. count it up to 4 on the dice. 5th wound kills say the riptide and the model is removed.

[Dave Mcturk]

I have some pretty red dice from space hulk or something that only show the numbers 1 to 3... no mix ups and they sit nicely on most vehicles... a bit of blue tack sometimes helps ! ... but I suppose if I was really smart a magnetised marker would be better !

[Mr Mystery]

Most importantly....just be consistent.

Agree before the game starts with your opponent which method will be used, then there's no complaints. And stick to one method. I'm sure there's odd'uns out there who might count down wounds, but count up hull points!

[Wolfshade]

I think consistency is important, and that quick discusion with your opponet before it starts that way you know which way you are going.
I count down as you remove the wound or remove a hull point so the natural is to count down, like fireworks on new years eve 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 *KA BOOOM*

[SotonShades]

guess i'm one of those "beardy players"that counts wounds that have been dealt. ive been playing since they early 2nd. and counting down has only shown up in the last 5 years or so. Ive always wondered, for the people that count down, because it's natural, do all of your models start with a dice on it showing that they have full wounds?

Also I play with more experienced players, most of us know how many wounds/HP most things have. escpecially HP. small things-2, tanks 3, LR 4. its pretty standard. Yes, I know there are exceptions

Maybe it's only been around for 5 years colloquially, but I've been playing counting down for 15 years. Back when I was a newbie at beginners sundays, we'd be told off for counting up. As for marking models with full wounds, why? If there is no dice/marker, it obviously hasn't taken any damage yet (and so needs to be purged asap :P)

[Wolfshade]

I think it is much easier to count down, instead of counting up and whoopsie he had 3 wounds not 4. Whereas once you turn 1 over it is done and like Soton this is how I've played since the dawn of mankind

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Personally I put a little pile of wound counters or similar on any muli-wound mini's base (when i remember to bring them). Then remove as I go along. But convention around here is to count down. Former GW manager guy I know counts up though, but he's unconventional in many ways.

[Mr Mystery]

You know, if I had the money and the skill, I'd make multiple models for each of my characters, to show them getting increasingly battered as they lose wounds!

[Anggul]

'Up' just doesn't make sense. If you're counting up and your opponent isn't entirely sure on what wounds/hull points the thing started on, it could confuse them. If you count down, there's no confusion. You need to deal that many more wounds to kill/destroy the thing. This is pretty important with Tyranids and other armies with a large number of multi-wound models.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

'You know, if I had the money and the skill, I'd make multiple models for each of my characters, to show them getting increasingly battered as they lose wounds!.

I smell a BoLS modelling challenge coming on!

[Katharon]

It's counter-intuitive for me to do anything other than count down with a D6 for keeping track of wounds. After all, just like any RPG or other game involving a health bar of some kind; you lose health when you taken damage and the health meter goes down. Counting up would confuse me for a moment or two if I'm in the middle of a fast paced game and trying to make quick tactical guestimates based on a dozen different variables -- one of which would be the number of wounds a certain model or IC has left.

[Ben_S]

It's counter-intuitive for me to do anything other than count down ... just like any RPG or other game involving a health bar of some kind; you lose health when you taken damage and the health meter goes down.


I agree that down is probably clearer, but are you saying that you've never played a game with a 'damage track' that goes up as you take damage? I don't think there's anything unnatural about counting up, or any reason to assume that players doing so are cheating. (Is there any obligation to tell your opponent how many wounds you have?)

[Wolfshade]

You know, if I had the money and the skill, I'd make multiple models for each of my characters, to show them getting increasingly battered as they lose wounds!

That would be awesome, special token for ID weapons?


'Up' just doesn't make sense. If you're counting up and your opponent isn't entirely sure on what wounds/hull points the thing started on, it could confuse them. If you count down, there's no confusion. You need to deal that many more wounds to kill/destroy the thing. This is pretty important with Tyranids and other armies with a large number of multi-wound models.

I think this ^^ is the best argument for counting down.

Think of the tyranid theme it is often quite important to know how many wounds a model actually has which the counting down does which up does not, especially when thinking of things like Doom and when life leech is about.

[Mr Mystery]

That would be awesome, special token for ID weapons?



Pair of smouldering boots?

[Chris Copeland]

I personally count up. It's never occurred to me that counting one direction or the other in some way reflected upon the player's personality. Quite frankly, I've never given this issue the briefest thought. Also, I don't think that I've ever noticed it make any difference in any game I've ever played. I can't remember ever being confused by an opponent using a different system from mine.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Pair of smouldering boots?
Love it!

[Wolfshade]

Pair of smouldering boots?

Exactly what I was thinking, maybe a big ball of explosion where the torso was been vapourised

[Demonus]

I count up. Cant say Ive ever played someone that counts down but either is fine by me.

[DWest]

If I'm ever in the mood to take the time, I'll probably glue some small magnets on the bases of my multi-wound creatures, and probably use small nails with skulls on them to store its full HPs on it at the start of the battle. But I'll probably never have the time.

My first Heldrake has the "shoulder" armor plates not glued down, the theory was to remove them when it loses a hull point, but that got abandoned as in practice they'd fall off before game and I'd spend 10 minutes chasing them under the table, and then when it did get hit, I'd have a die on the base well before I remember "oh yeah, the plates come off!". Still something I'd like to try to make work, if I can remember my own tricks.

[magickbk]

I count up. But I also usually make a point when playing against anyone who isn't my regular opponent to state what I'm doing as I change the dice: for example, "my Ravager takes a hull point, and has one remaining" while increasing the die to 2.

[Cactus]

'Up' just doesn't make sense. If you're counting up and your opponent isn't entirely sure on what wounds/hull points the thing started on, it could confuse them. If you count down, there's no confusion. You need to deal that many more wounds to kill/destroy the thing. This is pretty important with Tyranids and other armies with a large number of multi-wound models.

Well, if you are playing a count up player, you can assume that if the model is still on the table he's still in the fight!

Of course, I also ask how many wounds are left fairly often.

[Katharon]

I agree that down is probably clearer, but are you saying that you've never played a game with a 'damage track' that goes up as you take damage?

Nope. Never.

Closest I can imagine is in World of Tanks where after the battle is over you can look at the stats of the battle and it keeps track of the potential damage your tank could have taken but didn't (a neat feature imho).

[Anakzar]

As a tyranid player I magnetized the extra plastic rippers that came with some of the plastic kits and stick them on the bases of the muti-wound critters. Example: 5 for the Tervigon remove a ripper every wound taken and last one remove the model.

Could be done with Skulls for other armies.

Guess that means I count down?

[Katharon]

Guess that means I count down?

Yes. Yes it does.

[Cadian122]

I count down, I have a bunch of tiny dice (no larger than 4-5mm^3), that I stick on all my vehicles at the start of the game, and on the multi-wound models as they get wounded. I never roll those dice as they're too small, but still large enough for me to see at a glance. It's not perfect, they occasionally get knocked over, but I'm very good at remembering what they've got left. I do like the idea for the Big Gun Dice though, they'll never get rolled.