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View Full Version : Rough Rider Tactica [Imperial Guard]



Katharon
09-05-2013, 02:02 AM
Imperial Guard, Fast Attack Choice Tactica

Rough Riders
Those brave fools that still move across the fields of battle in the 41st millennium atop horses and armed with a lance...

Baseline:

Firstly, lets look at point cost. As far as most Fast Attack choices go for the Imperial Guard, the Rough Riders are a cheap niche choice. I will highlight the fact that I used the word 'niche' because it is important later on in this tactica. So, for a set of five rough riders you have to spend 55 points and nothing added to spice it up. But is that 55 points well spent? Base attributes of the Rough Riders: count as cavalry, ignore terrain when moving, have the Fleet and Hammer of Wrath special rules, and are equipped with their signature weapon the Hunting Lance.

Cool rules to say the least, but riding atop those horses and wielding that lance is still your regular Imperial Guardsman with only a toughness 3 and 5+ armor save. Very fragile for a unit that, uncharacteristically for the Guard, is meant to charge out from behind defenses and over trenches to fight an enemy in close combat.

Best way to field them?

If you have a themed army or simply like cavalry charges and you just GOTTA get that unit on the table, then here is how to best utilize them. Ultimately, pay the points. Bring that unit up to 10-man strength and pay the extra bit to put Mogul Kamir as a replacement for the unit's sergeant.

Why Mogul Kamir? Because he gives the unit the Furious Charge, Fearless and the Rage special rules. That way your men (who usually only get +1 attack on the charge with a hunting lance) get +2 attacks on the charge thanks to Rage and are Fearless enough that even if they take casualties in the pursuit of their target they won't break and run before delivering the blow.

Why ten men? Because they're Guardsmen. No matter how cool the weapon, the man using it is still a Guardsman. The motto of the Imperial Guard is “strength in numbers,” hence why they are called the Hammer of the Emperor. If you have 10-men survive to charge into an enemy unit (led by Kamir) they will be attacking with 36 (does not include Kamir's attacks) Initiative 5, Strength 5, AP 3 attacks at weapon skill 3. Statistically speaking, you will miss half of that, so you're only guaranteed (unless you're god-awfully unluckly or lucky) only about 15-18 attacks. (And of course you get your 10 Hammer of Wrath attacks at initiative 10, but those are only strength 3 AP 0...)

10-man squad, led by Mogul Kamir, and those Rough Riders will charge their way to combat.

Battlefield Role

Everything in your army has a role to play. If you try to go chasing after a Land Raider with Rough Riders, please stop reading at this point and go find a car outside your house to play chicken with.

Rough Riders are specifically designed to be Marine-Killers. They will excel at charging home slaughtering regular Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine infantry. With a Strength 5 hit from the Hunting Lance they will be able to wound anything with regular SM stats on a 3+ and because the Hunting Lance counts as a power weapon, they won't get an armor save.

Your best option for using Rough Riders is to have them hunt down Devastator/Havoc Squads, regular Tactical Squads, and maybe gunning for isolated Independent Characters. Do not go after Terminators! 2+ armor save means that they will just laugh off your tickling lances and then proceed to murder your Rough Riders.

Equipment

Never, ever, never, ever replace a Rough Rider's hunting lance for another special weapon like a Flamer, Grenade Launcher, melta gun, or plasma gun. Just DON'T. The moment you take away the Hunting Lance, that guardsman stops being a Rough Rider and starts being a liability. You want plasma guns, buy one for an Infantry Veteran. Don't waste the effectiveness of the Rough Rider close combat charge by lessening it by fielding a rough rider with a flamer.

How to Maneuver

Because they are cavalry and because the Rough Rider will have to charge out to meet his enemy, there are two main tactics to using the Rough Riders.

Offensive:

You're gung-ho and howling for your opponents green stuff blood. So you decide to charge forth and have at them. All well and good, if you can do it right.

If your opponent is not familiar with Rough Riders then they may ignore them as a secondary target, shifting the majority of their fire power at any tanks, blob infantry squads, or fliers you may have. However, you cannot count on them being ignored until the last moment. Proximity will play a huge part of this – the closer you get the scarier they will seem to your opponent. So be clever about it.

If you are moving your Rough Riders up the left side of the board (you see a tasty looking devastator squad sitting behind a rock), simultaneously begin moving up a few vehicles or targets in the middle or right. Chimera transports with veterans in them, rushing up the middle is a nice distraction tactic. Thus, your opponent will be worried about seeing three melta guns charging down his throat – capable of wrecking his walkers or precious tanks – and shift more fire power to that whilst your Rough Riders continue to move forward unmolested.

Use intervening cover to your advantage. Don't string your riders out in a long conga-line, rather have them in pairs, side by side, in a neat column when possible. And as tempting as it is, do not set them up line-abreast, one next to another, as if you are reenacting the Rohirrim charge at the Battle of Minas Tirith from LOTR. That is just begging to be target practice and it will be dangerous to riders who might clip difficult terrain (which counts as Dangerous for cavalry since they get to ignore it).

Defensive:

You're like most Guard players – those idiot Khornate bezerkers will come to you in your entrenched and heavily defended perimeter anyway, so why go to them? And let's not forget any of those nasty drop pods or deep striking units.

In this scenario you keep your Rough Riders in the rear areas of your deployment area. Have them stick to cover and hover about. They will act as your fireman unit. If a unit of Assault Marines deep strikes into your deployment zone, intent on killing off your artillery or behind your Aegis defense line, then your Rough Riders will be heroes – the cavalry arriving in the nick of time. Pun intended.

You use them as a mobile reserve, countering any threat that appears in your deployment zone. They can also be used to reinforce one of your flanks. Maybe a blob squad or some veterans were taking too many casualties and fell back, running for their lives. You simply wheel your cavalry around and the Rough Riders plug the gap while your infantry reform. Then, the short skirmish over, you pull your cavalry back into cover and have them lurk for another target once again.

Final Word

The Rough Riders are an interesting Fast Attack choice, but they are niche role: Marine-Killer. They aren't good for taking on fliers, tanks or terminators – but they will get their job done if you keep them to it.

Cadian122
09-05-2013, 02:51 AM
Very good post. I tend to field 20 in a standard army (25-30 n my DKoK), and I use them to counterattack when the Assault Marines/Vanguard Veterand come up. I couldn't have worded it better.

YorkNecromancer
09-05-2013, 05:53 AM
*wanders off to convert up some AdMech themed robot-style rough riders.*

Katharon
09-05-2013, 08:37 AM
*wanders off to convert up some AdMech themed robot-style rough riders.*

Please post picks if you do. I'm almost finished painting up my own riders. They've been (only) base coated for a long time... >_>

Captain Bubonicus
09-08-2013, 01:40 PM
You use them as a mobile reserve, countering any threat that appears in your deployment zone. They can also be used to reinforce one of your flanks. Maybe a blob squad or some veterans were taking too many casualties and fell back, running for their lives. You simply wheel your cavalry around and the Rough Riders plug the gap while your infantry reform. Then, the short skirmish over, you pull your cavalry back into cover and have them lurk for another target once again.

Ah, but they only get to use the lances ONCE, correct? After that, they're just fast guardsmen armed with regular CC weapons?

Katharon
09-08-2013, 06:35 PM
Ah, but they only get to use the lances ONCE, correct? After that, they're just fast guardsmen armed with regular CC weapons?

They use them on the first round of CC when they charge in. They are not a one-time-use-only item. So if they are charged or if their target survives their initial charge, then they have to use regular CC weapons; which, honestly, makes no sense to me. Cavalry are trained to use their lances or spears for both charging and fighting from horseback at a stand still, so why Rough Riders wouldn't do the same is beyond me. *sigh*

Katharon
09-08-2013, 06:37 PM
Which makes me think it would be really cool if the Rough Riders had Hit & Run special rule...

Captain Bubonicus
09-08-2013, 06:53 PM
They use them on the first round of CC when they charge in. They are not a one-time-use-only item. So if they are charged or if their target survives their initial charge, then they have to use regular CC weapons; which, honestly, makes no sense to me. Cavalry are trained to use their lances or spears for both charging and fighting from horseback at a stand still, so why Rough Riders wouldn't do the same is beyond me. *sigh*

Mmm, that's not the way I read the Hunting Lance rules. That first sentence: "Rough Riders use their hunting lances the first time they charge into close combat, after which they cannot be used again" seems to me to say that they get to use the lances only ONCE per game!

DarkLink
09-08-2013, 07:20 PM
They're once per game.

Katharon
09-09-2013, 12:07 AM
No, they're once per close combat round on the time they charge in. Believe me, I've called their (GW's) hotline and that was the answer I got.

*If* they were once per game then I'd delete this tactica and immediately have my RR models crushed into bits for being the absolute most useless models in the game.

Cadian122
09-09-2013, 12:58 AM
They're once per game, doesn't make them useless, a squad of 10 for 105 points can easily be expected to make its points back if used against the right unit. (Vanguard/Sternguard spring to mind)

Katharon
09-09-2013, 07:00 AM
They're once per game, doesn't make them useless, a squad of 10 for 105 points can easily be expected to make its points back if used against the right unit. (Vanguard/Sternguard spring to mind)

They're not once per game. I've called the GW hotline less than a month ago and the guy on the line that is their rules lawyer or whatever title he has, said it was once-per-time for the first round of combat. Subsequent combats where they get the first charge is when they use them again.

Captain Bubonicus
09-09-2013, 04:09 PM
That "ruling" directly contradicts the rule, eh?

DarkLink
09-09-2013, 04:18 PM
GWs rules lawyers don't know ****. Unless they put it in an faq, no one is going to buy it after they read the actual rule. It's very clearly once per game.

Cadian122
09-09-2013, 08:03 PM
GWs rules lawyers don't know ****. Unless they put it in an faq, no one is going to buy it after they read the actual rule. It's very clearly once per game.

I'm with DarkLink there, the rules state it is once per game, I also know that the rules (in general) can translate differently (eg, when I read my German Rules/Codices compared to my English ones), so there might be something lost in translation.

Ever since 2nd Edition the Lances have always been one-use only, so unless it is FAQ'd then they're still one-use.

They are long poles with a grenade on the end, they're going to be one-use.

DarkLink
09-09-2013, 08:10 PM
The "first time you charge" means exactly that. The second time you charge is not the first time, nor is the third, nor the fourth, and so on. Only the first time you charge is the first, meaning that you only get the bonus the first time you charge. If that's a circular argument, it's because the language is already pretty clear, it's once per game. Similarly, once locked in assault, the next phase is not 'the first time they charged', and so they don't get the bonus. That one phrase covers all of them.

Now, if they wanted you to get it every time you charged, they would have said 'when you charge, during the first round of that assault you gain...". Which is exactly what Eldar Laser Lances say. They work every time you charge. Rough Riders do not.

Katharon
09-09-2013, 09:31 PM
That is sheer stupidity. The hunting lance is a shaped charge, not a grenade on the end of a stick. Why would you not carry extra shaped charges with you that you could easily snap onto the end of your lance after expending it once? God I hate GW rule writers. I've called their hot-line again and they've basically outlined what you said DarkLink. Apparently the guy I spoke to "got the rule wrong," according to this other guy.

It needs to be fixed so that they can use them each time they charge into close combat on the first turn. Really, it would make them as good as I describe in the OP and would make them worthwhile units. Otherwise, I'm not fielding them again. One round of close combat if I'm lucky enough to get the charge is not enough assurrence for me to field them again when I can dedicate those points to something else that isn't once-per-game. Just not worth it.

Cadian122
09-10-2013, 07:55 PM
It needs to be fixed so that they can use them each time they charge into close combat on the first turn. Really, it would make them as good as I describe in the OP and would make them worthwhile units. Otherwise, I'm not fielding them again. One round of close combat if I'm lucky enough to get the charge is not enough assurrence for me to field them again when I can dedicate those points to something else that isn't once-per-game. Just not worth it.

Except I use them frequently, and they tend to be overlooked by a lot of players, and I get the charge off with a 10-man, 105 point unit, 90% of the time, I know I will be making more than my points back from them. I took 5 to a tournament not so long ago, they were ignored the whole time, the first game they held up the Doom of Malantai for 4 turns, which stopped it wreaking havoc on my battleline, granted I lost, but it could have been much worse, the second game they won it for me by sneaking across for Linebreaker, after using their Hunting Lances to deal with a pesky Sternguard Squad. The Third game (the Scouring) they helped take out a Great Unclean One (although the Veterans with Melta-Bombs deserve most of the credit), then stayed out of sight until the final turn when they galloped over to claim an objective, which won me the game. That was 55 points, which helped me win 2 games, and stopped me from getting tabled in the first game.

DarkLink
09-10-2013, 09:32 PM
That is sheer stupidity. The hunting lance is a shaped charge, not a grenade on the end of a stick.

The difference between a shaped charge and a grenade is semantics as far as this is concerned. Just like any other explosive, once a shaped charge explodes, it's exploded. It doesn't conveniently grow back.

Katharon
09-11-2013, 04:25 AM
The difference between a shaped charge and a grenade is semantics as far as this is concerned. Just like any other explosive, once a shaped charge explodes, it's exploded. It doesn't conveniently grow back.

It is in fact not a matter of semantics. I speak from experience (retired 1st Lt. US Army). Take a claymore mine for example. It is a shaped charge intended for a directional blast. The same can be said for the magnetic shaped charges used by both Allies and Axis forces during the Second World War and more into modern day.

It would be quite easy to design a shaped charge with a copper center designed to be expanded outwards and in a chosen direction in a molten copper lance that would cut through armor like so much cheese. The fact that it would be on the tip of a lance, at least two meters from the wielder, would only make it that much easier for use. In fact, if designed correctly, the charge could be such that the casing would be destroyed so that once discharged a new shaped charge could be slid into place with a locking mechanism (that would also be part of the charge design).

DarkLink
09-11-2013, 07:43 AM
No, that's not what I'm talking about. That's exactly why lances get their bonus in the first round, they blow up and do a bunch of damage. But claymores don't reload. They only blow up once.

Katharon
09-11-2013, 07:50 AM
No, that's not what I'm talking about. That's exactly why lances get their bonus in the first round, they blow up and do a bunch of damage. But claymores don't reload. They only blow up once.

Can you not read? Go back and re-read the last sentence of the post I made in reply to yours. You have the pole and a bag full of shaped-charge hunting lance warhead tips; use one, slide the pole down, snap a new shaped charge into place, prepare to charge again.

Da Gargoyle
09-13-2013, 04:43 AM
Katharon, I know what you are trying to say vis a vis replacable war heads but I couldn't see it working practically with a lance. The connection point on a lance would have to survive not only the detonation, but the stress of impact on the target. Don't forget the point of the lance would be measured at no more than a square inch or so. Behind this is an adult male and horse traveling at high speed. The likely effect of the impact from an explosive charge on a stressed out pole is to shatter. And even a shaped charge has a kick, Newton says so. Biggest problem for lancers in the past was a broken lance on impact with the target. I think the rule writers were at least thinking logically restricting the strike to one charge.

Having said that I have a couple of Orks and cold ones I was thinking of making into Ork rough riders. I reckon that would look cool.

chicop76
09-13-2013, 07:47 AM
Man I hate being late. Anyway it's once per game. The problem with them is if I don't run Vendettas, I run hell hounds or bane wolfs, if I don't do the I run Plasma or Heavy flamer scout sentinels. Thanks to no assaulting out of out flank I have stopped using my scount sentinels.

Anyway 10 or 20 years down the road I would like to play with the horseys. I am trying to convert them into Centaurs and trying to pick up some Ogryn and Ratlings to make my army look more high tech fantasy. Anyway even with one use they are not bad. I seen them run behind dem tanks which really helps them, if you assault tank you get assaulted by the horse guys.

I was talking to a friend who wanted to use Samuel and a libby biker atached to the squad. Samuel can take the hits from the squad which would allow them to survive much longer. Another thought is you can possibly outflank with them as well if you attach a certain biker to them,be neat a biker in art armour riding in the front.

Anyway I disagree with not taking melta guns, but now that you see it's a one use item you may understand why you might want to take weapons with them.