They've Always Been There (just retcon it!)

[Chris Copeland]

I am not a fan of the game designers trying to shoehorn new models and units into the history of the game by saying, "In the late 40th Millennium a template was found for this lost technology!" It always feels grafted on and forced to me when they do that. By far, I prefer it when they just retcon new models into the fluff by indicating that it's always been there. "This technology pre-dates the Great Crusades" and such work better for me.

We have a static universe here. It is always 11:59 PM on December 31st of the year 40,000. We have a fluid real world wherein new models are always being brought to market. If new STCs keep getting "found" here at the end of the 41st millennium it will be weird... too many new discoveries... better to say that they've always been there... Cheers...

Thoughts?

[ElectricPaladin]

I think that an advancing game is far superior to an actually static one. So, personally, I think that these new explanations are a move in the right direction.

That said, I'd rather see them advance the setting whole-assedly rather than half-assedly. This whole "here's an explanation for a new unit, but no, we won't advance the political, military, or social situation at all" doesn't really fly with me.

[Chris Copeland]

If we start with the idea that the setting is permanently set at 12:59 PM of the year 40,000 anno Domini then the retcon idea seems to be the best way to go. It avoids building up too many finds in too short of a time frame...

[Katharon]

Having read a lot of the latest Black Library books, it seems like we're several decades or more past the 13th Black Crusade, which seems to be over but the after-effects are still rippling out. I just finished reading "Priests of Mars" and everyone seems to be in the 41st millenium by almost a hundred or more years. I will also point out that all of the Commissar Cain books are written from a perspective several decades after the first century of the 41st millenium...

So I wouldn't say that its static more than like it's a geriatric, fat kid stuck in a molasses trying to reach for a piece of candy...

[Wolfshade]

I think the problem is that there is a real need to develop new things for 40k so they need to introduce them either through things happening or retconning, both are equaly awkward in my view but I sha'n't lose too much sleep over it, after all more plastic is best.

[DrLove42]

I was thinking the problem will be compounded sooner than later. Eventually they won't be able to add new stuff to a codex.

Eventually it'll just be new stuff being redesigned, or they'll need to start removing stuff to get new stuff in and I don't see that happening

[Psychosplodge]

But it's not static, the Cain books are being edited by Inquisitor Vail in early M42...

[Kirsten]

doesn't generally bother me either way, only time I have been annoyed by something along these lines is the new warriors of chaos book which rams the latest special characters into existing stories about archaon as though they are trying to sell you them.

[magickbk]

I like variety. Constant retcon is no different than constant spontaneous discovery in my eyes. I like when new weapons or vehicles are explained as being a variant developed for a particular need in a campaign and then became endorsed by the Mechanicus.

[Chris*ta]

The universe isn't really static though -- you are encouraged to set your games anywhere in the 41st millennium. Why do you think GW has tyranids painted for the earlier (defeated as of the year 41,000) hive fleets (for just one example) ?

What the universe does have is a terminus post quem -- i.e. what happens after Dec 31st 40,999 is not discussed.

As for the later events in the Cain novels, I don't think they're exactly canon, as much as I do like those novels.

[Chris*ta]

Oh, and as for whether the we-just-discovered-an-STC or it-was-always-there-stop-asking-questions arguments are better, I like a mix of both.

I do feel I need to point out there is the rarer it's-an-unapproved-modification-of-an-existing-STC (like the new Land Raiders in the previous SM Codex).

[Psychosplodge]

They're as cannon as anything else the Black Library releases surely?

[jgebi]

I just want the emperor to die or get of his ***. But with the whole retconing of fluff as I came in about 3 months before the new necron dex and they were my first army (I don't care what people think BTW as I have a bloody good reason for them) after reading the new dex first then the old one, new one better I could see a little missing but it just felt more complete. same with all the new dexs, I have taken to reading the new realese dex then the one before and these new ones are good and retcon dose work and by god I love to watch the 30 year old virgins at my club rage at retconned fluff

[Wolfshade]

Cannon is cannon unless I disagree with it then it just fluff.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

by god I love to watch the 30 year old virgins at my club rage at retconned fluff

As a nearly 30, definitely not virgin, I object.
I often find retcon to be a bit of a letdown, but that's just because I've been playing for long enough to remember when the background actually developed.
The novels seem to be driving in the right direction, fostering change WHILST filling out the background gaps, but change is inevitable. Heck the Cain ones are (sort of) set AFTER the 13th Black Crusade and Mitchel doesn't seem to be back-tracking on that.
The background needs to evolve, there's still a place for the 41st millennium, but tipping into M42 with the sentence "41,001 new stc for the imperial guard pig-launcher-tank discovered" wouldn't exactly destroy the fluff.
Apart from the pig bit obviously.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It can't be a retcon. There's no continuity. It's not a story. They're just expanding the background.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

You have a good point there actually. we think in terms of continuity but actually the changes from RT to 2nd ed were an EPIC re-write of the setting, races and abilities in hundreds subtle and unsubtle of ways.
The nature of the Space Marine is a fantastic example, they weren't always post humans after all. And we're fine with the Horus Heresy adding a Primarch or the re-writing the death of Sanguinius, so why do we really care so much?

[Wildeybeast]

doesn't generally bother me either way, only time I have been annoyed by something along these lines is the new warriors of chaos book which rams the latest special characters into existing stories about archaon as though they are trying to sell you them.

People moan about 40k being stuck in time but Warhammer has actually gone back in time. The whole Storm of Chaos has been erased from history as if it never happened.

[ElectricPaladin]

...the re-writing the death of Sanguinius, so why do we really care so much?

Just curious - what was it like before?

[Psychosplodge]

He went
'Tis but a flesh wound, come back Horus, I'll bite your legs off

[Chris*ta]

They're as cannon as anything else the Black Library releases surely?

Precisely ;)

I remember when the Studio books were the canon, and BL (or whatever it was called then) were read-it-if-you-like-but-don't-trust-it-to=be-100%-accurate. Then again, I also remember when the first Codex was released. Space Wolves, for those who weren't there, and ever since people were complaining how they were better than every other Chapter.

I suppose I see the relationship between the Studio and BL as much like the way Star Wars Canon works. The Expanded Universe is canon, unless it contradicts something actually done by George Lucas. And then fans complain about how he's ignoring their favourite book, and he tells them to f**k off, because it's his universe and he created it.