Rampant Speculation: Blood Angels Codex?

[ElectricPaladin]

It's not going to be any time soon - though GW has been putting them out at a fair clip, so who knows? - but the Blood Angels codex is due for a rewrite. I'm curious to hear if any of you have any guesses, theories, or suppositions about what that new codex will include.

Will Blood Angels be saddled with centurions (I'm not a fan of the models) or will their BGD (Big Giant Dude) be something else? Will Blood Angels get an additional flyer to occupy the fighter/bomber role, or will they just have the stormraven (not that I'm complaining about the stormraven, mind you)? What do you suspect will be done to give the Blood Angels more of a punch in close combat? How will the the red thirst, the black rage, and the death company be expressed in the new codex?

Let's keep it friendly, civil, and do your best to make suppositions that can be backed up with evidence (I'm a science teacher even in my off hours, it seems...). That makes the conversation more interesting.

[lobster-overlord]

Considering it was 10 years between books, I doubt they have a huge need to redo it anytime soon. I think they'll stand by it for a little while longer and crank out some chapters we've never seen a book on first. And, as I never finished my first BA army which I started in 2001, I'm not too keen on them putting out a new book for me to change my army structure AGAIN. :-)

[MajorWesJanson]

Space wolves will almost definitely be before the BA.
Still, for BA, my guesses-
Vanguard, Sternguard, Tac squad prices brought into line with Codex: SM- SM got their units aligned with DA, and BA were aligned with SM before.
Grav guns added.
Probably more use of Blind USR for assaulting (glittering angels after all)

Kits
Combat flier, either add the storm talon, or a new flier (shared with Space Wolves?)
BA terminator unit (Sanguinary Elite?)
It would be nice to get a recut razorback or recut assault squad added to the release-
Razorback with all the weapon options
Assault squad with parts for 2 plasma pistols, 2 flamers, 2 meltas, and say 2 of each power fist, sword, axe, maul, and spear. Think the new vanguard vet box, but instead of a bunch of TLLCs and THSS, a massive variety of normal power weapons.
On the far out side of ideas, maybe a speeder tank, like the DA landspeeder vengeance, but with more hull points and non-plasma weapons, and less baroque.


As for schedule, I'd say something like Nids in Nov, IG in Feb, Orks in April, Wolves in June, Dark Eldar, Sisters, BA, Crons, GK, with supplements and model kits following that.

[vharing]

I honestly think that Blood Angels already suffer from an over saturation of units. I think any of the books that were updated 5th edition and then again in 6th have way too many units. Blood Angels got a bunch of new units in 5th, personally I feel we dont need more units.
Ps I have been playing BA since 3rd

[ElectricPaladin]

I honestly think that Blood Angels already suffer from an over saturation of units. I think any of the books that were updated 5th edition and then again in 6th have way too many units. Blood Angels got a bunch of new units in 5th, personally I feel we dont need more units.
Ps I have been playing BA since 3rd

I basically agree with you. We don't want more stuff. We want a few changes in the way the stuff we have now works.

That said, I suspect that we will get a BGD. I personally suspect a second flyer, to mimic the stormtalon. Either a dual fighter/bomber kit or just a fighter. And finally, I suspect that we may get some more ground-based anti-air - the vanilla marines got that, but the Dark Angels didn't, so the data is split.

I actively don't want us to get the first. I think this "flyer and BGD" parity between the codices is sucking a lot of the individuality out of the factions. I think the second might be funnish, but I don't think we need it. The last we also don't need, because the stormraven is already such a great anti-flyer flyer, in addition to carrying troops.

[daboarder]

I'd like to see rules allowing our veteran assualt squads to either "squad vector strike" or assualt fliers....

model wise, I just dunno what we'd get. an honour guard kit?

[plawolf]

General price drop, I think the HQs will be tweaked to put them in line with C:SM both points and stats wise. Some of the names characters will probably also get tweaks and maybe a few will get AP2 at normal I weapons to help them deal with 2+ saves.

The flak missile will be made an option in line with DA and C:SM, grave weapons will probably also be made available.

With every codex, they need new kits to help boost sales. But with BA already having so many kits, its hard seeing where they might add new units. I think BA will either get the stormtalon added, or have a new flyer, but with the stormtalon, stormraven and the DA fliers, I don't think marines need another flier, so stormtalon it is.

I think with the tac squad, and veterans getting updated for C:SM, BA would be a good time to update the assault squad box.

The DC will get a price drop, but they seem fine as they are, so I don't see big changes to them. For general rules changes, I would like BA to get the ability to use jump packs in movement and assault like the new raven guard, and being able to take 2 CC special weapons in regular assault squads instead of shooty special weapons would go a long way to making regular assault squads good choices. I would also expect elites like Sanguinary guard to get hit and run.

Since BA are so CC oriented, some ability to counter or negate overwatch would be useful, maybe limited to vet assault squads to help differentiate them from the new regular assault squads and VV and Sanguinary guard a little more, or such a rule might get added to the Sang Guard Death Mask.

Every release needs a big stand out kit, I would love it if BA got a plastic contemptor, but that may be asking for too much.

[daboarder]

a BA specific terminator kit would be nice......

[ElectricPaladin]

This is some good, hopeful stuff.


General price drop, I think the HQs will be tweaked to put them in line with C:SM both points and stats wise. Some of the names characters will probably also get tweaks and maybe a few will get AP2 at normal I weapons to help them deal with 2+ saves.

The flak missile will be made an option in line with DA and C:SM, grave weapons will probably also be made available.

With every codex, they need new kits to help boost sales. But with BA already having so many kits, its hard seeing where they might add new units. I think BA will either get the stormtalon added, or have a new flyer, but with the stormtalon, stormraven and the DA fliers, I don't think marines need another flier, so stormtalon it is.

You know what would sell like hotcakes? Make a Blood Angels-specific flyer based on the stormtalon, then sell a kit to convert it, with, I dunno, new wings, a new cockpit, and new weapon options, but based on the original kit. Man, would that ever squeeze money out of us.


I think with the tac squad, and veterans getting updated for C:SM, BA would be a good time to update the assault squad box.

The DC will get a price drop, but they seem fine as they are, so I don't see big changes to them. For general rules changes, I would like BA to get the ability to use jump packs in movement and assault like the new raven guard, and being able to take 2 CC special weapons in regular assault squads instead of shooty special weapons would go a long way to making regular assault squads good choices. I would also expect elites like Sanguinary guard to get hit and run.

I have a vague hope that the death company will go back to being random. It never made sense to me that in the fiction of the game, they are a collection of crazed marines who just lost it a few minutes before the battle began, but in the reality of the game, you buy them ahead of time as part of your list.


Since BA are so CC oriented, some ability to counter or negate overwatch would be useful, maybe limited to vet assault squads to help differentiate them from the new regular assault squads and VV and Sanguinary guard a little more, or such a rule might get added to the Sang Guard Death Mask.

Every release needs a big stand out kit, I would love it if BA got a plastic contemptor, but that may be asking for too much.

Plastic contemptor for Blood Angels? I'd buy the hell out of that.

[daboarder]

I have a vague hope that the death company will go back to being random. It never made sense to me that in the fiction of the game, they are a collection of crazed marines who just lost it a few minutes before the battle began, but in the reality of the game, you buy them ahead of time as part of your list.


But its not usually "just before the battle" its usually long enough before one that the chaplains have time to not only induct them into the death company...but also repaint their armour entirely....

[ElectricPaladin]

But its not usually "just before the battle" its usually long enough before one that the chaplains have time to not only induct them into the death company...but also repaint their armour entirely....

I wrote about that in the "Army Idea Exchange" thread, but painting them entirely black never made much sense to me, either. If you read the Blood Angels fiction, they make it sound like they gather up the crazy ones right before the fighting starts. Hours before, not days before.

[el_tigre]

I always imagine servitors running around in the backround with a pot of black paint and a brush while the chaplain cunducts his litanies. Of course Blood Angels recomend Citadel paints and glue.

[daboarder]

I wrote about that in the "Army Idea Exchange" thread, but painting them entirely black never made much sense to me, either. If you read the Blood Angels fiction, they make it sound like they gather up the crazy ones right before the fighting starts. Hours before, not days before.

I always got the impression it was anywhere from "the eve of battle" to during times of rest (as per the tower of the lost). Whereas actually falling right at the start of the battle was a rarer occurrence in accordance with the background from the Armageddon capmaign where Tycho's company fell.

[Houghten]

Plastic contemptor for Blood Angels? I'd buy the hell out of that.

I'd buy it and I don't even play Blood Angels.

[Defenestratus]

The only rampant speculation that I have - which is more likely than anything else in this thread - is that BA will only get a new book after Tyranids, Orks, IG, Space Wolves, DE*. In other words, a long-*** time.

Also GW has stated that they don't want to rip off FW for future releases anymore so you can take your silly plastic tubby-dread wishlisting fantasies and firmly shelve them.


*I cannot remember if DE was before or after BA. I remember BA being April of a year, and DE being November.

[deinol]

The only rampant speculation that I have - which is more likely than anything else in this thread - is that BA will only get a new book after Tyranids, Orks, IG, Space Wolves, DE. In other words, a long-*** time.

Also GW has stated that they don't want to rip off FW for future releases anymore so you can take your silly plastic tubby-dread wishlisting fantasies and firmly shelve them.

At least you'll get a book before Sisters!

[Defenestratus]

At least you'll get a book before Sisters!

They were noticeably absent from my list on purpose :P

[SotonShades]

Surely a rampant speculation thread should be in general discussion, rather than news and rumours (as it is neither)...

As for BA... I'd have to agree with the bring points in line with SM/DA, though having additional special rules might see them a point or so above. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see the Captains take a significant price drop. That or give them some other abilities to make them as useful as Chaplains and Librarians. Perhaps they could be the key to unlocking a defence against Overwatch or using jump packs in movement and assault?

It would be interesting to see more special characters from the Flesh Tearers and other successor chapters make it in to the codex, similar to those in the new codex, that can tweak the style of play of the angels. Perhaps a chapter that uses assault squads without jump packs; great for clearing besieged fortresses or space hulks if not for bounding across comparatively open battlefields. Maybe a chapter that has bedbased themselves to the point they actively seek out the red thirst and/or black rage as a devotional act to be closer to their primarch? I really am just spitballing, but you get the idea.

I would certainly expect a new warlord table; perhaps with results that let the warlord not scatter, to allow units that deep strike within x" of him to assault in the same turn or have counter attack for on the turn they arrive, reroll reserves/outflank/deep strike mishaps.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there is a reworking of the Psychic powers. To what, I have no idea, but at the very least to bring them in to line with the 6th ED powers in terms of classifications and warp charges etc...

[Tynskel]

Ps I have been playing BA since 3rd

PPS I have been playing since 2nd!

[Cpt Codpiece]

since our only really unique choice has been stolen by the standard codex (raven) i dont see why BA could not just use an expansion/supplemental codex.

sanguinary guard? jump pack vets with a flash bolter...
death comp? marines with FnP,FC and a chaplain as squad upgrade.
special dudes are just that special dudes.
oh and our rhinos have a can of NO2..... big deal

instead of vet srg have an option to take an apothecary instead, for FnP or other bonus, or a non slot using 'sanguinary priest' squad that gets split off as per current dex.

yeah i know we have different dreads and stuff, but a supplemental dex can cover those easy... its still a dread using standard powers/wargear options.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

If the high speed release schedule continues at this pace, they should be done within a year an a half roughly.

They WILL get new plastic kits - I could see them getting a new plastic character in the form of a Sanguinary Priest. There was a bit of fluff pointing to marines that have gone mad from black rage ect still living in some tower (?) - perhaps they could turn those into some kind of vampiric half-naked marine unit used as some form of terror attack led by a chaplain/priest when times are really desperate, seems like something they'd shoehorn in to me. I'm sure they'd get some form of new vehicle or centrepiece kit - like a new flier, since their current one isnt unique to them any longer.

Kind of hard to think what they will add to marine armies that were updated in 5th ed really, but we know they WILL get NEW units - wheather people want that or not.

[dirkspair]

here are a few things i would like to see:

tech marine is an IC like all the other ones, thunder fire cannon is available.

some cool CC oriented artifacts and artificer armor for captains, reworking of the equipment of current special characters (like Dante!)

DC tycho actually joins the DC and does not run around by himself.

that is all i can think of besides the normal adjustment in point costs to bring the BA in line with the DA and regular space marines.

[DrBored]

Mephiston won't just have the rules for a Monstrous Creature, he will BE a Monstrous Creature. The fluff will play it off as a blessing from Sanguinius or the Emperor, but really it will be Khorne morphing Mephiston into a Daemon Prince for all the blood he's spilled across the galaxy.

Oh, and Blood Angels will just be a Supplement with a few rules, but otherwise will just be an extension of the regular Space Marine Codex.

[ElectricPaladin]

Oh, and Blood Angels will just be a Supplement with a few rules, but otherwise will just be an extension of the regular Space Marine Codex.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'd actually be ok with that, provided they don't take away our special kits, because they're pretty. You could fit everything the Blood Angels need to be distinct in a mid-sized pdf (chapter trait for the Red Thirst, all rhino-chassis vehicles are fast and land raiders can deep strike, unique dreadnought type, a couple of unique units and ICs, and special characters - done).

[Power Klawz]

Its hard to tell what GW's trajectory is on this. On the one hand they opened sixth with a standalone chapter, and DA do not have access to grav weapons and there's no way they'll get errata'd to do so. On the other hand they've started doing this whole supplement thing, which has yet to see that sort of widespread application that would be needed to say, take the standard C:SM and turn it into Blood Angels, but you get the feeling that they might just be testing the water before they really start churning out supplements that have a greater impact. (new units, new models etc.)

Its almost contradictory. If they knew they were going to be doing such things as supplements this edition, why did they make Dark Angels? There's no real point, I mean its nice for Dark Angel fans of course, but hell they were able to cram Black Templars into the basic dex. It really seems like someone just had a random idea halfway through bringing 6th edition out and no one wanted to rework the initial release so they just went with it.

BA could easily be a supplement to C:SM, it would be a more in depth supplement with far more rules than we've seen in any supplement to date, and I don't really think it should include Centurions or grav weapons, and really they should get rid of vanguard vets and sternguard too and just make Sanguinary guard amazinger.

If its a standalone release you can basically call it based on 5th. The 5th dex just needs a points normalization and to make more sense out of the rules for some of its units. Ok and army wide furious charge or something like that instead of the 1 in 6 chance to be an emo vampire. Unique assuault oriented warlord traits and MAYBE a unique psychic lore since BA are space vampires.

(Maybe give the whole chapter higher initiative baseline, that'd be cool. Not quite as fast as eldar, but faster than non-slaanesh marines. I think that fits rather well with their image. Also they could rip off eldar again and maybe have an insanely expensive power fist that strikes at initiative. The pimp hand of angels. )

[plawolf]

Well, we have focused a lot on the CC element of BA, maybe we should also look at them in the air. The fluff is that BA are the air superiority masters of space marines. Being restricted to Stormravens doesn't fit the bill. I think they need a second flier for air superiority whereas the stormraven is more of a ground support fire striker and transport. A stormraven based variant with an upgrade kit sounds nice, but strikes me more as something forge world might do rather than GW. Another marine flier would seem excessive, so I will double down on BA getting the stormtalon. Although a plastic thunderhawk could be an outside the box possibility. Wouldn't that raise the bar for big flashy new unit? :p

Some additional ground based air defence would also be nice in addition to flak missiles. If not a contemptor, then at least a dread with contemptor like skyfire and interceptor rules. Might be a good excuse to redo the basic dread, with some of the missing arm options like rifleman, multimelta and the like.

I think Mephy is due for a makeover, same for Dante, so that's two new finecast clampacks.

With GW and forge world both going retro, being in (back?) things like grav guns, maybe they will release a marine super heavy. A fellblade would make all marine players drool, and is more in keeping with the fluff and style than a Dreadknight like MC walker.

So, I'm really going out there suggesting either a plastic thunderhawk or a fellblade as possible contenders for the big flashy kit to be released with BA. Is that rampant enough for you guys and girls? :p

[MajorWesJanson]

So, I'm really going out there suggesting either a plastic thunderhawk or a fellblade as possible contenders for the big flashy kit to be released with BA. Is that rampant enough for you guys and girls? :p

FW just released a Fellblade, GW is not going to. And while it would be awesome, Thunderhawk is not likely.

I'd like to see the Red Thirst and Black rage be mixed blessings, rather than straight boosts. Make Black Rage give rage, but must declare a charge if able to. Red thirst should give furious charge, but drop leadership by 1.

Flier, I'd like to see something like the Nephilim in shape, but slightly different, a plane that could be shared with say Space Wolves or Grey Knights again. That could be a centerpiece kit/flier
BA ought to get a multi-part terminator kit, to make basic termies and something like Sanguinary Knights.
Remove Sang guard from Elites, make them a unlock for a captain or chapter master, or multiples with the Sanguinor.
Keep Vanguard Vets, but keep them in FA for BA.
Remove Deep Strike from Land Raiders.
Change the Glaive Encarnadine from a MC two handed sword to an AP3 power weapon that grants +1I and add it to the wargear section.

[Deadlift]

a BA specific terminator kit would be nice......

Death Company Terminators :o

[Power Klawz]

Death Company Terminators :o

Man... Like it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me fluff wise, but neither do Death Company dreads and those exists. Death company terminators sound ridiculous. 2+/5++ and 5+ FNP, 4-5 attacks on the charge due to rage, possibly storm shields, WS5... ugh just silly. Throw furious charge on top of that and put 1000 points into a single unit, lulz. To top it off they should be able to jump out of Stormravens directly into combat so they can choke slam greater daemons faster.

[energongoodie]

On the flyer thing, in the Mephiston Lord of Death Novella the Blood Angels forces have storm talons. I know books mean nothing in game terms but thought I'd add it.

[ElectricPaladin]

On the flyer thing, in the Mephiston Lord of Death Novella the Blood Angels forces have storm talons. I know books mean nothing in game terms but thought I'd add it.

I'm not sure "nothing" is completely accurate. It's a data point, just not a very reliable one.

[Angelus Mortifer]

Some interesting thoughts already raised by some. Here is my 2p’s worth.

Kits:
Mephiston – classic model but could really do with a more dynamic and sinister looking re-sculpt. Given advances in the tech they could pull off something immense with him now.

Dante/Tycho – Both could also do with new sculpts as befits Dante’s status, and Tycho’s current static pose (assuming he stays in the new book). Maybe have a 2-model pack for the sane and insane versions (again assuming he remains under the general iterations of pre and post Rage).

Assault Squad – Given the updates to Tac/Stern/Vans with the new C:SM, it paves the way for the only real general unit re-sculpt (although arguably a revamped Scout box would make a lot of Marine players happy too).

“An Assault Vehicle” option – This doesn’t and shouldn’t be another Land Raider variant as there are plenty now covered by GW and FW. But if the focus still remains on BAs being the assault Chapter of choice, then another delivery system would fit well. What that would be is hard to define, e.g. a Fast but lightly armoured vehicle/skimmer that trades a degree of protection for speed and the ability to Assault; OR, as already mentioned some other form of Assault Flyer. The second option is hard to justify as the Stormraven pretty much fills that role, and they could easily revise the rules for a BA specific version over and above what it does now.

Can’t see us getting any new characters as we already have so many already, and we’d have to drop some to make way. I know some don’t like The Sanguinor or Astorath but they’re relatively new and I can’t see them being removed. Who would you get rid of instead though? DC Tycho?

There won’t be any Super Heavies as this is Apocalypse domain and not regular games. Also, it’s hard to see BAs being a Supplement when all of the first Founding Chapters either already have, or will have their own book (BA and SW still to come). Yes, Codex Marines are lumped together now but the mechanic is easily there to put the multiples in a stand-alone with the respective tweaks to the Codex Astartes. Also, Blood Angels have figured so heavily in the background for years and they have a strong following, so it makes no sense (even by GW standards) to have them be the only 1st Founding without a book. Also, enough has been said of Flesh Tearers to make them a supplement off the BA book, and potentially opening the door then to maybe one or two other Successor Chapters to do the same: Lamenters, Angels Sanguine or whatever.

Rules:
It’s easy to go to town here but I can’t see a massive departure to the 5th Ed rules.

I was hoping they would do something to Drop Pods in the new C:SM book, but it doesn’t look like they have from the rumours. Some sort of “Blind” effect the turn a Pod lands to mimic the shock and disorientation derived from having a huge slab of admantium land and churn out a group of very angry warrior monks. Not assault from arrival, but something like a blind test equivalent for all enemy units within a certain range which, if failed, results in a minus to WS and BS for the following turn. It ensures that the enemy can still respond to a Drop Pod assault, but with a short-term deficiency because of the shock (potentially affecting Fearless units as well, but with a lesser hindrance), and it also ensures that Podded units may not get totally wiped out the turn they arrive. It would help initiate assaults better but not immediately when the units arrive.

Jump Pack assault similar to the Deathwing Terminator version, allowing you to select a certain number of JP units to arrive either 1st or second turn. Maybe un-lockable with a certain character. Cheaper Jump Packs for a number of units, particularly Death Company as 15pts per model on top of their standard 20pts is a horrendous amount to pay.

Better options for Captains, namely Artificer Armour but coupled with a points adjustment would make them more viable over either a Librarian (arguably the best choice over the “cheap” options) or a special character.

Changes to some Character weapons, like Dante’s and Astorath’s Axe – makes no sense to have such a high Initiative and all round CC expert always strike at I1.

Always though that Dreads should have some sort of WFB style stomp attack at I10 before normal attacks begin, but to power armour books haven’t had this adjustment so we won’t either. I’m predicting that 7th Ed will be the Drop-Dread-Assault edition 

Mephiston to have a 1-2 personal Psychic abilities, like Ezekiel does, with options for 1-2 others from the standard BRB choice. There’s maybe an argument to have a stand-alone deck of abilities (c.6 choices) because of the background suggestion of increased psychic/precognitive ability, but who knows whether that will stick this time around.

Corbulo will likely lose his 2+ FNP – a shame, as it’s a great tanking tool, but it is pretty over-powered.

Sanguinary Priests – make them a non-FOC choice to free up space, maybe moving Corbulo to HQ as a trade-off. When you have Termies, Sternguard, Furiosos etc all competing for slots, the Elite section is a bit crowded.

Death Company – I can’t see them going back to random movement, or anything clunky in terms of how you “generate” DC. The caveat of always having to charge if within range could be a good option, but if you’re 12” away at the start of the assault phase then they need to have something like Fleet to increase the odds otherwise opponents can mini-kite them by staying just far enough away to render charging unlikely. Not sure what you could do with this to balance it out for both sides.

Warlord Traits – Here you might see a bit of JP specific stuff, like “Warlord and his unit do not scatter when they DS” for example, maybe +1A on the charge buff (possibly in tandem with a more army-wide/CC-wide ability), or WS+1 within 6” or something similar. Maybe you might see area buffs that revolve around assault, but this comes down to specifically what they do with Red Thirst / Black Rage.

Rage – could be something like allowing a run followed by assault, and it would only really apply to Death Company, which makes sense. Plus Rage, Fearless and Relentless still makes them costly at current prices but with a better differentiator to whatever changes are made to Thirst.

Thirst – Again, a tricky one to balance as logical add-ons are many and add up to be over-powered too quickly. This also needs to be an always-on type ability, as it will replace Combat Tactics and other Chapter specific Traits. Having to roll for something pretty random and currently not all that great has too-many downsides to something that should be the Chapter differentiator.

How about Furious Charge (+1S), Fearless and another USR in the first turn of combat (whether charging or being charged)? If so though, which one: Rage, Counter Attack (that should stay with SW), Relentless, a.n.other…???

Just throwing things out there for discussion, and NOT saying these must definitely be in the new book. By making the next BA book the more obvious CC orientated army option, they have quite a bit of scope to bring that trait to the fore compared to the other books/Chapters – it’ll just take some thought.

I’ve got more thoughts on some of the other stuff; Fast Vehicles being the next main differentiator, but I’m stuck at work and have already used up a lot of time on this already.

[HsojVvad]

How is this News or Rumours? Not trying to be a duche here, but here I thought I was going to see some rumours. Stopped reading after 4th post. Sadly this is a wish listing thread. :(

[Aspire to Glory]

Blood Angels need something to at least balance the bias of shooting in this edition. Assault squads are a joke only suitable for the most casual and thematic of lists, at the moment. This saddens me, as I've always loved assault squads.

Blood Angels were my first army. I hope to see them descending upon the wings of angels once more.

[FireHazard]

I'm thinking the boys don't need much in the way of anything new. The addition of the Storm Talon would be nice (after all, I bought a couple) but I can't really think of anything else they need.

I agree with the model resculpts some have suggested. Dante looks entirely too feeble compared to the the Sanguinor and Astorath. Meph could probably do with an updated look. I still kinda like the iconic Tycho. I know he's quite static but it's still an impressive mini. BA Terminators would be nice, but not necessary.

More than anything, we need rules tweaks. Nothing fancy and nothing OP. Except Dante. He's rock 'ard so all his stats should be 10 ;)

[ElectricPaladin]

How is this News or Rumours? Not trying to be a duche here, but here I thought I was going to see some rumours. Stopped reading after 4th post. Sadly this is a wish listing thread. :(

Because we have data, in the form of three new power armor codices. This gives us an idea of what direction GW is headed in, creatively, so we can make our guesses based on evidence.

[DWest]

So far, every 6th ed Codex has taken a few aspects of the faction and turned them up to 11. Based on that, I predict a couple of things;
-Descent of Angels will get re-tooled and improved to make Assault troops (theoretically) viable-- maybe Shrouded on landing, and/or Drop Pod-style protection from mishap.
-Blood Angels are known for Blood, Chaplains, and Dreadnoughts; to that end I predict a "Reliquary Dreadnought", that grants the Sanguinary Priest and/or Chaplain buff around it.
-as for actual kits, Blood Angels got pretty good coverage in 5th, but they will of course need *something* to draw attention. Look for a new and improved Assault Squad kit, in the vein of the Tactical box, the Reliquary Dreadnought (if it happens), probably a flier just to round things out, some sort of AC-130 style Stormraven-minus-transport-plus-lots-of-guns.

[Warpath]

If this is wishlisting i would LOVE army wide Heroic Intervention... but i guess that would be a little OP. I do think that at least 1 unit should get it.
I wouldn't mind an invulnerable save for Meph.

Now, on what the codex really needs: Something to counter Interceptor and Overwatch; BA are masters of air combat and assault. So they should be able to get in combat without gettin wrecked.
I think the DC is spot on the way it is, BUT 15 points per jump pack on a 20 points model is extremeley overcosted, that needs to go down and i think it will.
Aside of some of the rules that need some tweaking, i think there should be a focus on overcharged engines, right now we pay 15 points more per rhino chasis vehicle and i think it isn't that usefull right now.

And Dante should get Eternal Warrior...

[Houghten]

How is this News or Rumours? Not trying to be a duche here, but here I thought I was going to see some rumours. Stopped reading after 4th post. Sadly this is a wish listing thread. :(

It said "speculation" in the title, how big a flag do you want?

[Katharon]

Yeah...I'm thinking that they will update all of the older codices that didn't get a book for 5th edition, like they've done for the DA, Eldar, and will be doing for the Orks. They're in far more need of a new codex than the freaking Wardian BA.

[DWest]

They're in far more need of a new codex than the freaking Wardian BA.
Actually, Blood Angels-as-BA are in pretty bad shape right now. If you have regular backpacks and bolters magnetized for your guys you can make a decent go at a generic Codex army or a Razorback rush, but almost everything unique to the Blood Angels isn't worth playing.

Furthermore, I saw this thread as not even a wishlist, but more of a "given what GW has done with every other Codex, what tricks are they going to pull when they get to us?" discussion. It will become interesting once we get to the BA update to see how prescient any of us were.

[ElectricPaladin]

Actually, Blood Angels-as-BA are in pretty bad shape right now. If you have regular backpacks and bolters magnetized for your guys you can make a decent go at a generic Codex army or a Razorback rush, but almost everything unique to the Blood Angels isn't worth playing.

Furthermore, I saw this thread as not even a wishlist, but more of a "given what GW has done with every other Codex, what tricks are they going to pull when they get to us?" discussion. It will become interesting once we get to the BA update to see how prescient any of us were.

These statements are both true.

I think that GW has an interesting bias against close combat. I'm not talking the "oh, woe is us, close combat is dead in 40k!" moaning, which is false. Close combat seems to be the province of villains. All of the complicatedly heroic factions - the various flavors of Space Marine and other Imperial forces, the Eldar, and the Tau - are primarily shooting factions, to varying degrees. The more villainous factions - Orks and Tyranids mostly - are much more oriented towards close combat. The closer you get to pure evil, the better you get at punching; consider that Chaos Marines manage to be better at close combat than ordinary marines.

So, Blood Angels occupy a weird niche. They have mostly ordinary Space Marine statlines and equipment, which doesn't set them up to win most fistfights. As a result - as DWest wrote - most Blood Angels players win with them by either relying on vehicles (storm ravens and land raiders and fast razorbacks) and/or playing RSM (Red Shooty Marines) Blood Angels lists.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I feel like Blood Angels should have some weakness representing the Red Thirst/Black Rage, although the older forced-movement stuff was too clunky.

Perhaps -1BS when within X" of enemy models for non-Death Company units, -2BS when within X" of enemy models for Death Company units (Death Company pistol options would be much cheaper)?

It'd encourage combat over shooting without making shooting completely invalid, and also allow for opponents to "distract" static shooting elements, which pops up a fair bit in Blood Angels fluff (even in their current 'dex).

[ElectricPaladin]

I feel like Blood Angels should have some weakness representing the Red Thirst/Black Rage, although the older forced-movement stuff was too clunky.

Perhaps -1BS when within X" of enemy models for non-Death Company units, -2BS when within X" of enemy models for Death Company units (Death Company pistol options would be much cheaper)?

It'd encourage combat over shooting without making shooting completely invalid, and also allow for opponents to "distract" static shooting elements, which pops up a fair bit in Blood Angels fluff (even in their current 'dex).

As a rule, I think that incentives - make the Blood Angels better at assaulting - are more fun to play with than penalties. I think that was what they were going with with the Red Thirst's current incarnation. It just isn't quite right, yet.

[Phototoxin]

since our only really unique choice has been stolen by the standard codex (raven) i dont see why BA could not just use an expansion/supplemental codex.

sanguinary guard? jump pack vets with a flash bolter...
death comp? marines with FnP,FC and a chaplain as squad upgrade.
special dudes are just that special dudes.
oh and our rhinos have a can of NO2..... big deal

instead of vet srg have an option to take an apothecary instead, for FnP or other bonus, or a non slot using 'sanguinary priest' squad that gets split off as per current dex.

yeah i know we have different dreads and stuff, but a supplemental dex can cover those easy... its still a dread using standard powers/wargear options.

Aye, I think supplemental codex is the way since it means 2 guaranteed sales

[Katharon]

I've come up against some scary BA armies composed mainly of Death Company. BA-specific units are hardly suffering, especially with 6th edition rule changes to things like the Rage and Furious Charge special rules. People just need to get out of their comfort zones and use more radical army set-ups. If you try to mathammer it all, then don't play the game -- go find a bunch of rocks, paint them pretty colors, and then roll dice.

Friend of mine tabled me using his all-DC army a month or so ago, using spirited tactics and using terrain correctly; he wiped the floor with my IG. Usually I win our bouts, but this time around he played to the strengths of the Death Company and kept me from bringing the full fire power of the IG down on his head. Was a great learning experience for me and for him.

So, long story short, I guess people just need to think outside the box more and stop math-hammering things.

[DWest]

Friend of mine tabled me using his all-DC army . . .
The problem with this, is DC cannot ever be scoring units. So if you run all-DC, you have to go for the table every time. There are very few things this will work against, as even one scoring unit escaping the reach of the DC is an auto-lose. Long term, it isn't a viable way to play a whole faction, although it can be a fun diversion.