Blood Angels

[Mobious]

So I have been hearing all of these rumors and wild wishes about the upcoming Blood Angel Codex, and I felt like chiming in seeing as they are my current army. One of the many things I have heard is equipping BA rhinos with assault ramps which I personally think is ridiculous (along with a lot of other additions Jawaballs had suggested).

So my proposal is to dismiss assault ramps, and instead just allow the back hatch to be assaulted out of even when the rhino pivots. As for OCEs, it would be cool to see a change on the dice rolls. Instead of 1s stalling the engines, 2s and 3s having no effect, and 4s 5s and 6s allowing for fast movement; I would like to see the exclusion of a stall on the die roll and limiting the outcome to a 50/50 between fast or normal. Personally every time that I roll a one I feel like some Ork Boy instead of the perfectionist that is a Blood Angel. As a penalty for the extra speed and assault power, I would be willing to give up some shooting ports.

I have a long list of complaints about the current codex and many reasons for why many things must be changed but I will keep it at a minimum:

Troops are too expensive for what you get (250 for ten Jumpacks??)
I would like to see either less expensive choices or Furious Charge to fill the loss of Combat Tactics.
Along with melta options on the Assualt squads.
The Death Company is also expensive; plus you need Dante to really make them work.
So it would be cool to see just a drop in the point cost; it would also be nice to see them as a Chaplain's
bodyguard.

There are other issues, but as long as the codex is updated to some of the C:SM standards and the above mentioned things occur I am fine. So what does everyone think? Are these acceptable adjustments to the BA Codex or are these just the rambling wishes of another fan boy?

[Duke]

I have to say that I am really torn on this one. On one hand I'm a blood Angels player since the dark ages and would love for the boys I. Red to be on top again. But on the other hand I don't want crazyness.

Assault ramps would be kinda fluffy, as would vehicles from deepstrike(thunderhawk deployment) That doesn't mean I like the idea though.

I would like the asault marines to be able to take 2 assault weapons and also be able to take a razorback. I would like furious charge to come back army wide. I want optional death company instead of forced death company. All in all I want a cheaper army, our troops are ungodly expensive.

In answer to your question. Your ideas are fairly well thought out and I wouldn't mind seeing those suggestions in the dex.

[RocketRollRebel]

Cheaper RAS with two special weps would be insane. Maybe too nuts even. If RAS could have two, melta/flamer/plasma they would jump to the top troops choice in the game slot. Even if they stayed expensive but could take those options I would still be a fan.

[DarkLink]

I'll point out that there is no such thing as "assault ramps" anymore, only assault vehicles. It doesn't matter which exit you get out of, you can always assault after disembarking. So your proposal actually matches the rumors you've been hearing.

[Mobious]

I don't know if I came off clearly or not, but what I meant by assaulting out was this:

I do not think you should be able to move the rhino, get out, and assault. But it would be nice to be able to park the rhino in midfield, with its front armor to the enemy, and then on your next turn pivot around and charge like mad men from the back hatch. Just for that couple inch extension and a safer ride in.

I agree that cheaper RAS with two assault weapons and FC is asking a lot and would be very powerful, but I am not asking for ALL of that. I merely want them to be better, cheaper, or maybe a little bit of both. But think of this, the C:SM lets you field a 7 Bikes with 2 meltas, 1 MM and a Power Sword Sergeant, all for the same price I get 10 naked assault marines??:eek: Lol

They get toughness five, a two wound model with a melta threat of 24", a power weapon, combat tactics, relentless twin-linked bolters--need I continue? Thing like this lead me to presume it reasonable to ask for my RAS to have a couple of special weapons and furious charge at the same price.

[ratpack]

Jump Pack Infantry deploying from Thunderhawks, cheaper units, optional Death Company, More flexibility to represent descendant chapters. These are my wishes, we will see...

[DarkLink]

I do not think you should be able to move the rhino, get out, and assault. But it would be nice to be able to park the rhino in midfield, with its front armor to the enemy, and then on your next turn pivot around and charge like mad men from the back hatch. Just for that couple inch extension and a safer ride in.


:confused: You can currently do that. The only time you are prevent from assaulting out of a vehicle is when the vehicle moved, and the assault rule removes that restriction (as does open-topped). And Pivoting doesn't count as moving...

[Lerra]

DarkLink is right. All transports can do that right now. Pivoting doesn't count as movement at all :)

I think BA assault marines are in for a major point reduction - just look at the 18 point Skyclaw jumppack assault marines from the Space Wolves codex. Skyclaws are a very reasonable unit and I wouldn't be surprised if they formed the basis for the BA assault marines.

I'd prefer to have inexpensive base units rather than increasing the point cost to give them furious charge. Imo it's more fun to have HQs give furious charge to every unit in a certain radius, or some sort of special rule like "Momentum: If Joe Uber is on the table, all friendly Blood Angels gain Furious Charge for the first three turns of the game."

[sangrail777]

Please just adjust our points and something tells me all the other lil things will fall into place, afterall look what they did for the wolves. I'm sure the new Blood Angel codex will make many others cry for years to come. hopefully my foes and not me of course.

[Duke]

I always thought that for purposes of assault pivioting counts as moving. . . Can someone clearify this with a sorce? I don't have my BRB at work.

I really think that GW is going to focus heavily on the Assault marines. I believe that they want the blood angels to be the Assault marine army of choice. even though the fluff says that they are more codex than anything.

As such I could see a 10 man assault squad getting 2 assault weapons, as well as some character (Corbulo) giving furious charge to the whole army.

Those two things would make Blood Angels very scary... Then if you throw in "assault Vehicle," Rhinos it gets disgusting.

Duke

[Cruor Vault]

:confused: You can currently do that. The only time you are prevent from assaulting out of a vehicle is when the vehicle moved, and the assault rule removes that restriction (as does open-topped). And Pivoting doesn't count as moving...


Sorry Darklink but your completely wrong on this.

Pg 67. 1st bullet point under disembarking.

"if the vehicle has already moved (including pivoting on the spot), the passengers may disembark, but may not move any further in that Movement phase. Once the models have disembarked, the vehicle may not move any further (including pivoting on the spot). After disembarking these models may shoot (counting as moving), but may not assault."

Right out of the text!

Edit:spelling

[Thorsson]

I hope Blood Angels don't end up getting boned. I plan on starting them when the dex drops. Plus it's an excuse to use the sweet Space Hulk minis in a game of 40k!!!

[Duke]

Thanks CV

So based on that it would make sense if Blood Angels Rhinos could pivot and deploy... It wouldn't be that great, but it could be the vital difference in a few situations.

Duke

[Cruor Vault]

I think rather than give the Blood Angels some strange assaulting ability out of transports. They need to get some more comprehensive changes. Death Co should lose rending, but be able to purchase weapons upgrades, everyone should get some sort of bonus for charging, and there should be fewer inconsistencies between their Dex and the Smurf Dex (ie, Storm Shields). However making everyone able to assault out of a moving rhino is waaaaaay too powerful!

I agree on the overcharged engines, these are the Best of the Best of the Best of the Best of the Best (with honors!) that the Imperium has. Their **** shouldn't get broke that quick, would you drive a car that stalled every 5 minutes? No! So why are the Emperors finest using APCs that that are less reliable then a 72 Chevy pinto? (and armored about the same).

I would like to see the codex get a universal bonus for charging, but not furious charge. Something similar, but different enough to distinguish them from Berzerkers. Wolves have Berzerk, Berzerkers have Furious, Angels should have something different. Maybe a bonus to WS when they charge? WS5 for first turn would be something totally new.

I agree with Duke on the Death Co. They need to be voluntary and not have their cost built into other units. Some Blood angels units are not good enough to have a 20-30pt addition to their price tag just because of an outdated unit that USED to be brutally powerful!

[Duke]

The stupid thing with mandatory DC is this: If during every battle the DC die afterwards (or during, emperor willing) then that would mean that, because DC are mandatory, about 5 marines a PER ENGAGEMENT would die. I don't mean per campagin... That would mean that without other casualties the entire Blodd Angels chapter would be extinct after 200 engagements... Which would be about one year.

Hence, mandatory DC is lame.

Duke

[Cruor Vault]

The stupid thing with mandatory DC is this: If during every battle the DC die afterwards (or during, emperor willing) then that would mean that, because DC are mandatory, about 5 marines a PER ENGAGEMENT would die. I don't mean per campagin... That would mean that without other casualties the entire Blodd Angels chapter would be extinct after 200 engagements... Which would be about one year.

Hence, mandatory DC is lame.

Duke

That is pretty stupid! I hand't realized how poorly written that bit was!

[Brother Tibirius]

Hey guys new to Bols chat but Blood Angels player since 2nd edition

For my part i think that points cost will be revised assault troop be given special weapons (X2) would be resonable may be an extra power weapon but not necesary....

equipment upgrade as per SM Codex for vehicules and sergents ...

as for assault ramp sure why not but only for assault troop choice , to limit the oh so whined about rihno rush....
i hope to see the veterants with furious charge or fleet of foot..... to represent their eagerness close combat

But in any case i'm just happy to see a new codex for the Brothers in red and with the job the GW team did on the space wolf codex im sure its gonna be good

have faith in the emperor and the great Angel

[Duke]

I really think that the recent SW codex has given me a lot of hope. It can do some disgusting things, but it is also disgustingly expensive.

I wouldn't mind paying for cool abilities, or keeping my guys cheap and "more codex,"

As far as fluff I would like to see more of a focus on the Blood Angels being Space Vampires... I would also like to see some short stories about the red thirst, we know a lot about the black rage, but the red thirst isn't described as well. I would also like to see the Angels be a little more divergent than they currently are. Right now they are pretty much codex with the exception of VAS and DC, I would like to see GW say that they are becoming more divergent by running assault marines as their main fighting force.

I know that some of those fluff wishes are fan-boy dreams, but it wouldn't be the first time a new dex has changed/ edited pre-existing fluff.

Duke

[DarkLink]

Sorry Darklink but your completely wrong on this.

Pg 67. 1st bullet point under disembarking.

"if the vehicle has already moved (including pivoting on the spot), the passengers may disembark, but may not move any further in that Movement phase. Once the models have disembarked, the vehicle may not move any further (including pivoting on the spot). After disembarking these models may shoot (counting as moving), but may not assault."

Right out of the text!

Edit:spelling

No, that's what I said. If a unit is in a transport that moved, then disembarks, it cannot assault. The only exception to this is the assault rule.

Now, read bullet point #2, right below the point you quoted. "If the vehicle has not yet moved, then the passengers may disembark and move normally. The vehicle can also then move normally. The disembarked models may shoot (counting as moving), and may assault as normal."

[Lerra]

Ah, whoops. They're right, DarkLink.

"If the vehicle has already moved (including pivoting on the spot), the passengers . . . may not assault."

and

"If the vehicle has not yet moved, then the passengers . . . may assault as normal."

Pivoting does count as moving for assault purposes.

[Dingareth]

Sorry Darklink, this was one of the small changes in 5th that not very many people noticed at first. Pivoting counts as moving for passengers, but not for weapons fired from the tanks itself.

[Cthulhu]

Something I think would be appropriate for Blood Angels and that I would love to see for World Eaters is open-topped Rhinos.

The troops and the vehicle itself would be a bit more vulnerable due to the open top, but it would allow Rhino rush assaults once again for those armies that are themed in such a way.

The problem: it would require a new Rhino model kit, which I somehow think isn't going to happen anytime in the near future.

[Aenir]

I dont know if it would require a new kit... just dont put those top panels in

[DarkLink]

Sorry Darklink, this was one of the small changes in 5th that not very many people noticed at first. Pivoting counts as moving for passengers, but not for weapons fired from the tanks itself.

Yeah, I thought he was talking about not being able to assault at all after disembarking, regardless of whether the vehicle moved or not.

[Mobious]

Yeah like I said, I am sorry if I was not clear.

[tcraigen]

I would like to see more fluff on the red thirst but don't want them to be made more into Spacevampires. Im a huge fan of vampire stuff and the Blood Angels but dont need them to be in the same bowl. Last thing I need in my head is a Twilight marine... I would just like to see it as a strange practice and cannibalistic berserker rage, keep the Count Von Mephiston idead at arms length.

What has enraged me the most is the pitiful armory that BA have. Barely a weapon selection, pathetic collection of special items, and sub-par standard equipment. They need some spice, they have interesting possibilities with unique units like the death company and the vet squads and honour guard why are they still armed with what seems to be a fork and spoon.

I would be interested to see chaplains become more, they have a large role in fluff but seem to be less in battle, also clearly priests are in need of help.

Rather then assault ramps or the likes of that sort of thing, maybe something like counter assault. Where as unless they are being assaulted from behind assault is simultaneous.

I would like to see the the list encourage mobility stronger. I think BA are more likely to want to surge forwards and take the objective and fight for it, rather then hose down the enemy and then stroll into the target area.

They also need their character dread back. Wolves have they're wise old commanding one I think BA need to have the "Come'n Get It" smashy, smashy dreadnought.

[Chadmack]

I don't really care if they go the way of space marine vampires. As long as don't sparkle.

[lobster-overlord]

Now to go with my Blood Angels, I will have to build a SoB army called the Blood Buffies.

[Bigred]

No news or rumors here, moving to 40k General...

Please carry on...

[B_Steele]

If during every battle the DC die afterwards (or during, emperor willing) then that would mean that, because DC are mandatory, about 5 marines a PER ENGAGEMENT would die.

But there is nothing that says they always die after an engagement. Remember, Death Company are not GOING to die...they are EXPECETED to die and have been resigned to that fact by the Chaplains that lead them. They aren't suicidal, just deranged. They are also not utterly insane and without tactics, they just need guidance to see the battle through the haze of their blood curse dementia.

If one great thing came out of the James Swallow Blood Angels novels, it was his depiction of what the Death Company is like. Perfectly tragic and amazing. These guys believe they are back in the Heresy-times, seeing daemons and heretic marines where they might be fighting orks or eldar, battling with daemon princes before their eyes when it is actually a dreadnought they are scrapping with. The beautiful tragedy of it, I personally find, is with the Chaplains. These guys, these total devotees to their battle brothers, have to LIE to their mentally-bent brothers to steer them usefully in an engagement; they knowingly lead their brethren to battle in the hopes of giving them a glorious death despite having already lost them to the blood curse.

If you can't tell...I love the Death Company. In fluff, in game, in all editions of our codex.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled speculations. :)

-Bry