Chaos Challenge ducking

[fizgigg]

As a chaos space marine if you have a character in your squad who will not be engaged until his initiative pile in does he have to issue a challenge? I have always been issuing challenges since the start of 6th because I was under the impression that it was an absolute requirement and I thought it was really cool/fluffy as I play night lords. A recent game with another chaos space marine player started with an argument over this- and I thought it was rather silly that he wouldn't accept a challenge as he was the one assaulting.

[DarkLink]

To issue or accept a challenge, you must be engaged. It's not an option, whether he wants to challenge or not, he can't.

[fizgigg]

But his sergeant character was within 2" of his models in base contact? For a friendly game it just struck me as odd.

[Sly]

An engaged Chaos character must issue and accept challenges. Engaged means within 2" of models in base contact at the start of the combat (before pile-in moves). If he was out of engaged range after Assault moves and before any Pile In moves, he should be unable to accept, but if he was within 2" of a model in base contact after assault moves, he must accept.

Also note that the Assault rules do NOT force you to come as close as possible, so you can willingly "hang back". You must:
1: engage in base contact an unengaged model if you can (usually pretty easy to avoid).
2: engage in base contact with an enemy model (same)
3: move within 2" of one of your models that is in base contact... this one is hard to avoid, but if you can manage to block your Champion's movement so that he can get within coherency of a moved model that is not in base contact, then he can make a legal move that keeps him out of being engaged. This protects him from challenges while usually allowing him to still do a Pile In move once Initiative Steps have started, so he can often still attack. That's pretty important for someone like a Power Fist champ who is likely to die in challenges before he can swing, but whose attacks you really want added to the general combat.

[fizgigg]

An engaged Chaos character must issue and accept challenges. Engaged means within 2" of models in base contact at the start of the combat (before pile-in moves). If he was out of engaged range after Assault moves and before any Pile In moves, he should be unable to accept, but if he was within 2" of a model in base contact after assault moves, he must accept.

Also note that the Assault rules do NOT force you to come as close as possible, so you can willingly "hang back". You must:
1: engage in base contact an unengaged model if you can (usually pretty easy to avoid).
2: engage in base contact with an enemy model (same)
3: move within 2" of one of your models that is in base contact... this one is hard to avoid, but if you can manage to block your Champion's movement so that he can get within coherency of a moved model that is not in base contact, then he can make a legal move that keeps him out of being engaged. This protects him from challenges while usually allowing him to still do a Pile In move once Initiative Steps have started, so he can often still attack. That's pretty important for someone like a Power Fist champ who is likely to die in challenges before he can swing, but whose attacks you really want added to the general combat.

Thanks Sly, this is a pretty definitive answer to what I was looking for. Attempting to hold back in assaults and making sweeping advances with a demon prince of nurgle a friendly game does not make. It's strange that the number of heldrakes another chaos player fields directly correlates to the level of sportsmanship I am likely to see.

[Denzark]

I have played 3 heldrakes at tournament. Its one of the few ways to keep chaos 6th ed competitive. I find it strange that the level of whining about 3 heldrakes an opposition player makes, directly correlates to the level of ineptitude in their play I am likely to see.

[DarkLink]

CSM is a competitive codex, it just suffers from the Phil Kelly mono-competitive-build particularly badly.


But his sergeant character was within 2" of his models in base contact? For a friendly game it just struck me as odd.

Then he was engaged, and since he was a champion of chaos he must issues or accept a challenge.

[fizgigg]

I have played 3 heldrakes at tournament. Its one of the few ways to keep chaos 6th ed competitive. I find it strange that the level of whining about 3 heldrakes an opposition player makes, directly correlates to the level of ineptitude in their play I am likely to see.

Sorry, next time I'll try to clarify more that this was a friendly pickup game... Didn't mean to sound like I'm complaining about the model in a competitive environment :| I appreciate the quick responses from everyone.