The End of Battle Boxes

[Bigred]

via 40K Radio 8-25-2013


Battle forces are planned to be phased out and replaced by a number of new "army" boxes. Themed boxes such as Eldar "Spirit host" or Space Marine "Strike force."

Odd, as really Battle Forces are just sets of arbitrary units designed to get an army up and running. These "Theme Forces" sound similar but are probably not as scattershot regarding the unit contents.

Those listed sample titles, sound a lot like Apocalypse formations, or some of the old EPIC formation cards (that many of the Apoc formations are based on).

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Nah, can't see this. More likely the Strike Forces and so on are something akin to the one-click collections. I imagine these things are in supplement to battleforces rather than replacements. Otherwise why go tothe trouble of reboxing and fiddling with the eldar box?

40kradio is talking about a lot recently. Do they genuinely have a hot line or are they just drumming up traffic?

[Deadlift]

via 40K Radio 8-25-2013



Odd, as really Battle Forces are just sets of arbitrary units designed to get an army up and running. These "Theme Forces" sound similar but are probably not as scattershot regarding the unit contents.

Those listed sample titles, sound a lot like Apocalypse formations, or some of the old EPIC formation cards (that many of the Apoc formations are based on).

Don't buy it. The battle forces are a fantastic way of expanding or starting an army. GW know its a great way for parents to start an army for their kids etc. 40k radio whilst providing us with some rumours, haven't really been given us the full picture as of late. This I suspect is another example of not quite the complete picture.

[Phototoxin]

Hmm... I think the issue is that some battleforces are great (crons, marines), some are ok (Dark eldar,woot free unit) and some are terribad (Blood angels, eldar?). My guess is that the bad ones aren't selling that much!

Mayhaps they mean the big christmas special things which are basically useless as they don't provide a coherent army!

That said with GWs terrain deal generating some hype they might do something like a direct only 'army deal' where you do get something useful but its GW only so then you need to balance out 20% internet /FLGS discount vs GWs full RRP + 'discount'.

[Deathscythe91]

Kinda makes me think those will be the Christmas boxes this year.

[Chaoschrist]

It could also mean that it's the end of that nice little discount you had with a battleforce. Some clearly gave you more value for your money.

And while it might be a shame to see those discounts go out, at least I'd hope the boxes are around the same price range as current battleforce and not become these "Apocalypse priced" sets. Yes, lots of models equal a decent price, but I always found the amount of models in any battleforce decent enough to not get stuck with too much in terms of painting and assembly.

Having a few boxes that combine units that actually make sense would a nice to see though.

How about some exclusive models that just come in these themed boxes? /wishful thinking

[MajorWesJanson]

Strike Force is supposedly $220 for 39 models. And they aren't a new idea, either. GW did some a few years back, basically a 1500 point army in a box.

4721 Here (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1430007)
4722 Here (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1430006)

Given the changes in price points since these came out, if you drop the land raider and saw whirlwind from the SM one in favor of a pair of 5 man units, you get the correct model count (39) and about the right price point of $220.
My GUESS for the contents:
1 multipart captain
5 man command squad
2x 10 man tac squads
5 scouts/sniper scouts
5 assault marines
1 drop pod/rhino/razorback
1 dreadnought/ironclad/venerable dread
1 predator

[ElectricPaladin]

I have to admit that I've never been a fan of the battleboxes. None of them are that great. The fact that they try to be a "one size fits all" never seems to really work.

And with GW killing the old battleboxes and making new ones, maybe there's a chance they'll mimic Privateer Press's wildly successful product and have their battleboxes be an actual bargain. A real live, bargain. A "this is about $80 worth of product but we'll let you have it for $50 and also give them away as prize support like candy" kind of bargain. That would probably get a lot of sales. I know I'd be more inclined to, say, start a Grey Knights army if I could spend $100 for $150 worth of well chosen kits designed to get me right into my new faction.

[RGilbert26]

That Space Marine one is actually worth buying whereas the Chaos Space Marine one...where does the Lord go?

[HappyHaunt]

I tend to think such large army boxes (not the smaller £70-£80 ones) are the worst way to start out - you dump a ton of unassembled and unpainted models on a beginner and they are not very balanced or have room for customisation.

[MajorWesJanson]

According to people who have seen WD, Strike Force is $225 USD for:
1x Multipart Captain
1x 5-man Command Squad
2x 10-man Tactical Squads (new ones)
1x 5-man Scout Squad (sniper scouts?)
1x 5-man Assault Squad
1x Venerable Dreadnought
1x Drop Pod
1x Razorback

So about 1000 points, and a 30% discount from buying them separately.

[Bigred]

And not one bit of metal/finecast in there. Nice!

[eldargal]

Personally I think instead of discontinuing battle boxes they should make them fight to the death. Battle box vs battle box in a vicious battle box to the death.

In other words, I like the sound of the new strike force thingamies.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I don't think any of the Big Army Boxes they've done at Christmas or whatever have had any metals or FC in them for a good while now.

[Death Shroud]

Battleforces used to be great when they were a standard £50 box that gave you a distinct saving on what you got inside. But then GW increased the prices on the battleforces and decreased the saving on what you got inside. It wouldn't suprise me if the sales dropped off to the point where they no longer sold in large enough numbers to justify the production costs (you'd be better off boxing the units inside individually and actually selling some).

[DrLove42]

Problem is some Battleforces just aren't legal.

I started the hobby with an Eldar box set. Most arne't legal cos you have no HQ.

[MajorWesJanson]

Problem is some Battleforces just aren't legal.

I started the hobby with an Eldar box set. Most arne't legal cos you have no HQ.

Battleforces were never meant to be legal forces (only really the Tau and newer IG battleforces could achieve that) but to provide a solid core of models to build an army around. These new Strikeforces seem to go back to the idea of a starter army in a box, like they did with the old strike forces that were meant to be a 1500 point force in a box.

A lot of armies were not able to do a legal army in a box, since they didn't have HQ choices in plastic, but now some of the mini-sprues help with that problem, especially for Eldar.

[Gleipnir]

Kindof wait and see on this one sounds too similar to the Space Marine and Necron Megaforce boxes that were released last year for Christmas, be happy if they do opt to do it though, especially if its not a direct only item.

[Mr Mystery]

Battleforces were never meant to be legal forces (only really the Tau and newer IG battleforces could achieve that) but to provide a solid core of models to build an army around. These new Strikeforces seem to go back to the idea of a starter army in a box, like they did with the old strike forces that were meant to be a 1500 point force in a box.

A lot of armies were not able to do a legal army in a box, since they didn't have HQ choices in plastic, but now some of the mini-sprues help with that problem, especially for Eldar.

This.

Plus, when I worked there, I sold more Battleforces/Batallions as Christmas/Birthday presents to well meaning family members who didn't know what the kid actually needed for their army.

[Tepogue]

Same as above. Sold more battleboxes as Christmas/birthday presents. And the people buying were parents/relatives/wives than the actual gamers. If you are buying something you don't care about value its more about total cost or X item is on the gamers wish list.

[Chaoschrist]

The Space marine one seems ok-ish. For either starters or people who want to expand their force. But I've found that if anything the Space marine box is the most generic army of the bunch in terms of possible builds. The old battleforces for marines didn't really leave me with unwanted stuff. I could easily use all models in said box. I don't know how getting more stuff (for obviously more money) will not result in more unwanted figures for some armies.

That being said; if it's around 1000 points across all armies, that might actually help some armies out a bit more. I remember that some Battleforces just were less than half the amount of points as some other armies. Orks come to mind. Dark eldar to some extent. Those are barely 300 points a box. And I'll probably have a hard time justifying a 150+ euro pricetag for more stuff which doesn't help flexibility at all... not to mention roughly 1/3 of the points for a reasonable playable force, compared to where some armies are already 2/3s in with a single box.

Guess we'll have to see what the future brings with these kind of boxes.

[HsojVvad]

All I know, if I saw these prices for "starter bundles" I would have never started the "Hobby".

I mean, how many people are going to quit before they even start by seeing these prices?

[HappyHaunt]

Possibly that's the point and to be fair to GW, they are not the only ones doing this; there is no point in chasing people who won't spend money on your product or who want to spend as little as possible.

Look at the "new" limited edition codexes - despite the loud cries of outrage from some, the only problem GW has had was their website crashed under the weight of people preordering stuff at FULL retail price , and have now ran out in most countries of most of the £70/whatever codex books. They are giving their fans what they want, and know that, prices aside, if they can capture new business then they do so from people who will spend money.

I don't know about the US, but here in the UK that is my perception of what all the companies are doing; Privateer, Mantic, Battlefront etc A decent starter set with rules and two forces, and then it gets expensive. Sure, Mantic and Privateer "give" their rules for free - but in both cases it is not the full rules you would need to play anyone and, Mantic aside, you'll still need an army book on top of the full rules to actually play a faction of your choice - in the Battlefront books an £18 softback has an awful lot of repetition, no real original artwork and the background, being historical, is basically a rewrite.

The new Strike Force, now I have seen it, does seem to be lacking in imagination - the only new minis are the Tac Squad, and it'd be awkward if a new player wanted the new plastic Chaplain as they already have a command squad - would it have killed them to put him in ? And the old multi part Captain ? The new plastic one would add some wow factor which I would have thought was the aim with this kind of set.

[Denzark]

Happy Haunt spells it out. For all people monk on about prices, when the GW website crashes under weight of orders for full retail price, then GW thinks this endorses their pricing structure.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Well, if people are still buying, then it *does* reinforce their pricing structure. If prices get to a point where it hits sales very hard, they'd have a serious rethink.

Personally, yes, the Strike Force is a big one-time outlay. But you get a whole core army. Is that worth it to a new collector, or someone starting a new Space Marine force? More so than the old Battleforce, I say, but it's up to people to decide for themselves.