WYSIWYG Challenge - Exorcists as Grey Knights?

[ElectricPaladin]

The question is, can it be done?

I have a pretty decent collection of Space Marines painted up as Exorcists, a daemon-hunting chapter that is probably successors of the Grey Knights. According to the fluff, they are basically organized and fight just like a normal Space Marine chapter, their heritage manifesting in an unusual resistance of daemonic corruption and possession and a tendency to fight with measured discipline, rather than righteous fury. However, it might be fun to cook up a list using the Grey Knights codex for once in a while. I'd even be willing to make a couple of conversions - hacking together a non-Grey Knights-style Exorcists holding a psycannon or incinerator or whatever janked out Grey Knight weapon I want to use - though I would be against buying entire unit boxes. If I wanted to do that, I'd just play Grey Knights.

Which I might do anyway. Because, you know, you can never have too many armies*

As I wrote above, the question is, can it be done? Assuming that my army is mostly made of ordinary Space Marine bolter-brothers, can I field them as Grey Knights without causing too many WYSIWYG headaches?

The parameters I am setting myself are this:
1) I am willing to stretch WYSIWYG in straightforward, squad-wide ways. For example "these boltguns are all going to act like storm bolters, which is easy to remember because there are no ordinary bolters in this army" or "all these guys have the same melee weapon, not included in the model."
2) I am willing to use eBay to buy a few extra bits, so for example, if my 10-man tactical squad includes a plasma cannon and a plasma gun, I'm willing to buy the bits it takes to turn them into a pair of - say - incinerators.
3) I would be willing to buy for my Exorcists stuff that works well in their Grey Knights version, but not things that I can't use/would suck for my Exorcists. If I was going to do that... I'd just play Grey Knights.
4) I like mech armies (and I cannot lie...).

This is, in part, a decision-making thread, so if you want to cut to the chase and say "don't bother - it's a dumb idea" or "do it, it's totally doable" or "don't play Grey Knights, they're boring" or "just buy some Grey Knights, you wimp," I'm willing to read that, too. However, I am also interested in exploring stretching WYSIWYG - both in general and in this case - and I'd be happy if this thread included some discussion as well.

* This is a lie; you can totally have too many armies.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Perhaps create a collection of Justicar-style models to add to the army when they're being played as Grey Knights? You could fluff them as a Daemonhunting sect within the chapter who only come out to play in the direst of times, and are otherwise sealed in meditation.

They'd psychically enhance their squad's weaponry (Bolters=Storm Bolters, Heavy Bolters=Psycannons, Flamers=Incinerators), and manifest psychic blades they spread throughout the squad (Nemesis Force weapons).

Heavy Bolter Devs w/ Sergeant=normal Dev Squad; Heavy Bolters Devs w/ Daemonhunter=Purifier Squad w/ Psycannons.

Edit: You could even model hovering, psychic weapons on their own bases to use as wargear markers :3

[Cursed13]

I'd just like to point out some misconceptions you have about Exorcists. To be absolutely true to the fluff, Exorcists should never be played using Grey Knights rules. Exorcists loathe psykers and is extremely doubtful they even have any psykers at all (except for that one Librarian that's painted as an "Exorcist" in the current Space Marine codex, but really, the studio guys can't even paint Raven Guard correctly, so what do they know?). They do not permit psychic powers to be used in the chapter, and hunt down psykers almost as zealously as Black Templars. There is almost no chance that the Exorcists are created from Grey Knight stock.
Also, their heritage doesn't manifest unusual resistance to daemonic corruption. The Exorcists have two Scout companies for a reason. They intentionally force a low level daemon into the initiate, and the initiate is expected to use his own strength of will to force the daemon out. If he fails to do so, he is culled, if he succeeds, he becomes one of the Chapter's own. There is no manifestation of daemonic resistance, simply those strong enough to resist daemons are selected to be part of the chapter. It results in a very high initiate casualty rate necessitating the two Scout Companies.

Now, if you know all of this already, and don't care, then just use them as you wish and move guys around to force fit the Grey Knights roles. It wouldn't be too difficult, save for maybe some weapon swaps. It would be easier to assist knowing what you do and don't have, and what units you planned to include in the army.

[Phototoxin]

That's what allies are for!

[White Tiger88]

Here are some good "Stormbolter, Bolters" for your army :P

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/SPACE_MARINE_BOLTER_PHOBOS_PATTERN_X10.html

[Houghten]

To focus on just one of your questions, you absolutely can hack together a non-Grey Knights-style Exorcist holding an incinerator:

4712

The incinerator came with the wrong right arm when I bought it off eBay, so I bodged that solution with bolter arms - not a normal matching set, though.

Random thought: consider just adding Grey Knight allies to your regular Codex Exorcists, as if they were the First Company. Would be easier to get enough storm bolters and power weapons then...

[Deadlift]

Magnets. Obviously you don't want to hack at your already completed models. But anything new then I would magnatise any weapon arms to get your WYSIWYG. Easy enough, on Terminators especially.

[Fanboy]

Just use 'counts as', or are guys that sticky about wysiwyg......

[Xenith]

Exorcists are a codex chapter.

Id use C:SM and field the chapter command/special daemon hunting units as allies from C:GK

That said, it's your hobby and do what they hell you want.

It's no different to people using C:GK for thousand sons (diametrically opposed to fluff), or using C:SM fo chaos marines.

Ultimately you're using the codex with the strongest rules.

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm quite aware that this would be "pushing it." The question is, would it be fun?

That said, you have some misconceptions :p


I'd just like to point out some misconceptions you have about Exorcists. To be absolutely true to the fluff, Exorcists should never be played using Grey Knights rules. Exorcists loathe psykers and is extremely doubtful they even have any psykers at all (except for that one Librarian that's painted as an "Exorcist" in the current Space Marine codex, but really, the studio guys can't even paint Raven Guard correctly, so what do they know?). They do not permit psychic powers to be used in the chapter, and hunt down psykers almost as zealously as Black Templars. There is almost no chance that the Exorcists are created from Grey Knight stock.

This is a common misconception. The Exorists don't loathe psykers - this one Exorcist character in this one Black Library short story loathes psykers. I've read the entire chapter on the Exorcists in Imperial Armor and they don't mention psykers one way or the other.

Now, you might argue that, as a chapter, many of them probably have issues with mortal psykers because they are so often called in to deal with the aftermath of their folly. However, there's no reason to believe that this is a chapter practice rather than just a theory.


Also, their heritage doesn't manifest unusual resistance to daemonic corruption. The Exorcists have two Scout companies for a reason. They intentionally force a low level daemon into the initiate, and the initiate is expected to use his own strength of will to force the daemon out. If he fails to do so, he is culled, if he succeeds, he becomes one of the Chapter's own. There is no manifestation of daemonic resistance, simply those strong enough to resist daemons are selected to be part of the chapter. It results in a very high initiate casualty rate necessitating the two Scout Companies.

This is a good point. But it's important to remember that the Exorcists were founded by the Inquisition with the express purpose of using this protocol. They aren't - say - the Minotaurs, who were a normal chapter before they pissed off the Inquisition and lost a lot of their independence. This means that the Inquisition had the freedom to pick the gene-seed they thought would bet serve their purposes. This means that if another chapter up and started using Daemonic Possession Therapy, their numbers might be even worse.

Also, the Exorcists are one of the only (possibly the only) chapters whose heritage is known, but sealed by order of the Inquisition. This implies either traitor legion stock - highly unlikely, we know what happens to most of those poor *******s, and I can't imagine which traitor legion could be used to create Exorcists - or something stranger... like Grey Knights.

Or something else. It's a setting mystery, and I don't pretend to have the "right" answer.


Now, if you know all of this already, and don't care, then just use them as you wish and move guys around to force fit the Grey Knights roles. It wouldn't be too difficult, save for maybe some weapon swaps. It would be easier to assist knowing what you do and don't have, and what units you planned to include in the army.

Ok, now that we're done having a 40k Lore D*ckswinging Contest (:p - I kid because I'm just as bad as the rest of us)...

My collection is pretty basic: two different terminator librarians, a chaplain, an apothecary (all on foot), a few tac squads, sergeants with various power weapons, an enormous collection of terminators with various combinations of chainfists, storm bolters, and various special weaponry, many rhinos and razorbacks, a magnetized land raider, a vindicator, a bunch of bikes, a plasma cannon devastator squad, a stormtalon... and that about does it. I probably have a few other odds and ends, but nothing significant.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Exorcists loathe psykers and is extremely doubtful they even have any psykers at allWhere are you getting this from? I don't recall any mention of it in the old stuff, and IA10 even details the "Broken Tower", the chapters "powerful Librarium faculty".

[ElectricPaladin]

Where are you getting this from? I don't recall any mention of it in the old stuff, and IA10 even details the "Broken Tower", the chapters "powerful Librarium faculty".

It's from that short story. There's this self righteous prick of an Exorcist who drones on about "psykers this" and "psyers that." I've never read it, myself, but it has given a lot of people the impression that the Exorcists are a chapter all about hating psykers. I don't blame them, actually. The problem is actually that most of Black Library's writing is so simplistic that when only one Space Marine character from a given chapter shows up, the assumption is that his personality traits are just there to express the themes of that chapter. This story is surprisingly well-written and includes a Space Marine who has a quirk that's completely unrelated to his chapter... but it confuses everyone who's used to the way Black Library usually writes.

Anyway, what is coming for me out of this conversation is that I think I just want to start a small Grey Knights force. Why? I don't really know. I like the idea of having a power armored inquisitor with a retinue of weirdo psykers, zealots, and bound daemons as my leader. I like the focus and mission of the Grey Knights. And I can always field them as allies alongside my Exorcists, which is entirely fluff-appropriate.

[Houghten]

The narration of said short story also says that the Exorcists' training programme is what taught him to hate psykers... there are at least two ways you can take that, though.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

The narration of said short story also says that the Exorcists' training programme is what taught him to hate psykers... there are at least two ways you can take that, though.I'd be a bit pissy about psykers if one stuck a daemon in me, too :3

[Magus]

Saw your response in the Chapter thread E.P.! I had a box of metal GK terminators for a daemonhunters army that never got off the ground, so when the plastic GKs came out I already had a good start on the models. Here's a few points from a relative newb.

I would totally be okay with "these bolters are stormbolters," fluff could cover that they have a higher rate of fire. There are a lot of Nemesis falchion bits floating around and I find them to be sized correctly for swords on power armour guys. If you want to go purifiers, something I was thinking was modelling bayonets on bolters for "counts as" halberds but I ultimately decided to stick with pure terminators and henchmen.

Regular pattern terminator armour with PF is a bit more difficult, easy counts as daemonhammers but otherwise I'm not sure. Could you model left handed GK weapons onto them? Or even the Forge world tartaros power axe set?

One caveat is I think you should wait until the new Space Marine Codex drops before you make the call as I hear we get a mention even if no parent chapter is given. If it's any good you will still be able to use Silas, the FW captain. On the other hand, a terminator armour librarian with a halberd makes a beautiful Malachite!

"By my will I deny thee, by my heart I spurn thee, by my hand I destroy thee; fiend of emptiness, to the void I cast thy blackened soul..."
— From the Liber Exorcisms

[ElectricPaladin]

One caveat is I think you should wait until the new Space Marine Codex drops before you make the call as I hear we get a mention even if no parent chapter is given. If it's any good you will still be able to use Silas, the FW captain. On the other hand, a terminator armour librarian with a halberd makes a beautiful Malachite!

I have to admit that I would love to finally get a model (and updated rules) for Captain Silas. My conversion is... ok. The rules for Silas are neat, but it's a bummer how they don't do anything for the rest of the army, just his squad.

If the Exorcists get any content in the new codex, it would probably invigorate my interest in them to the point that I wouldn't want to play them any other way.

[Magus]

Here are some good "Stormbolter, Bolters" for your army :P

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/SPACE_MARINE_BOLTER_PHOBOS_PATTERN_X10.html

Those work great for the bayonets eh? Or how about these?

http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=108_109&product_id=268