Which complaint about 40K are you sick of?

[YorkNecromancer]

Many years ago, I exchanged the heroin of 40K for the methodone of roleplay, specifically, White Wolf's World of Darkness games. They posited a world exactly like ours, only with the central conceit that every type of supernatural creature you ever heard of was real. The games were super pretentious, with aspirations to be True Art - actually one of the reasons I loved them, if I'm honest.

Every game had a subtitle - Vampire: The Masquerade. Werewolf: The Apocalypse. Mage: The Ascension. And so on.

Having gone back to 40K, I have been looking at these forums here a while now, and I think if 40K were to have a subtitle, it'd be "Warhammer 40K: The Complaining."

Endless, endless complaining.

Now, I know this is a bit meta, but I think it's valid. I think there are a bunch of complaints we never hear the end of, but that are actually not entirely true, or worth complaining about. Some are valid, for definite. But some were, and are not any longer, yet we still hear about them as though they were current. Example: back before the latest iteration of the Necron codex, I had someone tell me, without irony, that Necrons were a totally beardy codex. In 5th edition. Now, for those of you unfamiliar, Necrons were a beast of a codex when they first came out, but throughout almost the entirety of 5th, they were next-to-useless. Yet some people were still complaining that Necrons were broken.

So: which complaints do you hear all the time that in your opinion are past their sell-by date, in your opinion?

[ElectricPaladin]

Is it valid to vote for a complaint that I think is valid, but am sick of hearing because the complaining about it doesn't solve anything? For example, yes GW's prices are too high, but they aren't going to charge less because we whine about it... so why are we wasting our electrons on it, again?

[daboarder]

Im tired of the complaining about complaining.

Especially given that its usually as hypocritical as all hell. The same people that b*tch and moan about eldar banshees, necron fluff or their codex being rolled into another are usually the first to then turn around and tell a Chaos player they should suck it up and deal with not getting legion rules.

If people are disgruntled about a game they have invested as much into as this game requires they have every right to express that opinion and the high and mighty attitude taken by people is, quite frankly disgusting.

the hypocrisy of it all is definitely the worst part.

[Chaoschrist]

After today;

The fact that people think hellturkeys are OP... mine didn't last a turn, and there was no skyfire on the table.

[MajorWesJanson]

After today;

The fact that people think hellturkeys are OP... mine didn't last a turn, and there was no skyfire on the table.

So a single incident proves all the people who dislike the Baledrake wrong?

[DrLove42]

Can I say nearly all of them?

I agree with whinging on Necron fliers....feck em

But the rest is just tired. As is whinging about Wave Serpents. And Helldrakes. And that supplements "are just fluff with 2 extra rules"

[Psychosplodge]

I'm sick of people complaining about the complaining :p

Oh, Daborder beat me to it, well played sir, well played.

[biteymcrunrun]

I'm sick of people complaining about people complaining about complaining

[Psychosplodge]

I'm sick of people complaining about people complaining about complaining

You'll do well here...

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I'm actually unsure that much of the complaining is even "about" anything. A lot of it is just white noise.

Which is not to say that all of this is the case, of course. I may not agree with the Chaos stuff at the moment but I don't think it's completely illegitimate. But, say, a lot of the Ward stuff is just people furiously yelling nonsense into the aether because it's somehow cool to do so.

[Ankhalagon]

Other: Tyranids and SoB have actually a decent dex.
Oh. And my nids were scraped after 1 year of cruddace´s work.

[SaveModifier]

Remeber, if you're not complaining about every single thing GW do you're a dirty fanboi and thus should be ridiculed for enjoying your hobby time.

[Deadlift]

My complaint is really about myself. I really do suffer from what I call "shiny syndrome" basically I feel inclined to have a stab at just about every codex GW releases. It has nothing to do with rules but more the plastic crack. Every release sees some cool new model that I really like and end up starting (not finishing) another new army just to have an excuse to paint something cool. It's a real affliction. Some would call it jumping on the band wagon. Maybe, but for me it's never about the power of the codex, just the cool new toys that I just want to buy.
I think the only armies I don't have models for are Sisters and Dark Eldar.
If I had my way I would have all these armies
Death wing
Iron Warriors
Iron Hands
Ork Dreadmob
Ork Speedfreeks
Dark Eldar Carnival of Flesh
Draigo Wing
Wraith Wing
Ultramarines

This is just off the top of my head, do not even get me started on chaos marines. I really could paint so much from that codex in so many ways. All the different colour schemes and demonic allegiances are a painters dream and nightmare in equal measure.

So yeah my biggest complaint is about myself and my "habit" oh and I don't like the new washes as much as the old.


So yeah I am getting "sick" of hearing the chaos guys moaning lol. They really have some wonderful hobby options within their codex and the scope for paint schemes and conversions is fantastic.

[Psychosplodge]

I preferred the inks.

[Wildeybeast]

Im tired of the complaining about complaining.

Especially given that its usually as hypocritical as all hell. The same people that b*tch and moan about eldar banshees, necron fluff or their codex being rolled into another are usually the first to then turn around and tell a Chaos player they should suck it up and deal with not getting legion rules.

If people are disgruntled about a game they have invested as much into as this game requires they have every right to express that opinion and the high and mighty attitude taken by people is, quite frankly disgusting.

the hypocrisy of it all is definitely the worst part.

I don't think anyone has an issue with people expressing an opinion. There is saying why you dislike something in clear and rational fashion and leaving it at that and then there is moaning. When the same people repeatedly whine about the same thing, it gets very frustrating and even more so when there are lots of people doing it. My biggest bugbear is that it doesn't accomplish anything other than annoy others. Moaning about Rumours is just daft because it may not be true. Moaning about problems with an existing rule won't get that rule changed. If you send a calm and coherent email to GW expressing what you think the problem is, along with a suggested fix, there is the outside possibility they may FAQ it or change it in the next codex.

Taking to the Internet to whine at anyone unfortunate enough to read it may be your human right, but it isn't pleasant for those on the other end, doesn't accomplish anything and I find it hard to believe it actually makes the whinger feel better. Furthermore, whiny posts invariably provoke counter responses and such afflicted threads usually descend into pointless bickering and people just making the same points over and over. We want to try and keep BoLS as a happy friendly place and moaning isn't really conducive to that.

[YorkNecromancer]

Every release sees some cool new model that I really like and end up starting (not finishing) another new army just to have an excuse to paint something cool. It's a real affliction. Some would call it jumping on the band wagon. Maybe, but for me it's never about the power of the codex, just the cool new toys that I just want to buy.

Yup. This is basically how I collect 40K. Well, this and seeing stuff on eBay for pennied that someone has ravaged with Tipp-ex and Gorilla Glue and thinking "Yeah, totally worth it. Two days in Dettol and I'm sorted. I can't say no at that price."


I preferred the inks.

Mate, just go to a craft shop. All the ink you could ever need, and it's just as good. :) If the consistency is wrong, just cut it with a little Lahmian Medium.

[Psychosplodge]

Mate, just go to a craft shop. All the ink you could ever need, and it's just as good. :) If the consistency is wrong, just cut it with a little Lahmian Medium.

Seriously? That easy?

[Wildcard]

Much like daboarder here, but on a much more personal interest level.

I am sick of people complaining about my sorrow for Codex Grey Knights being wasted opportunity for something really inspiring.

All i get is: "That **** is f*cking op already, they dont need any more buffs", when in fact it has nothing to do with my opinions of the codex..

[Cactus]

I think the worst complaints are the ones that are true.

[SaveModifier]

Much like daboarder here, but on a much more personal interest level.

I am sick of people complaining about my sorrow for Codex Grey Knights being wasted opportunity for something really inspiring.

All i get is: "That **** is f*cking op already, they dont need any more buffs", when in fact it has nothing to do with my opinions of the codex..

So you're sick of people complaining about you complaining? If you stop complianing, that problem will go away.

[ElectricPaladin]

So you're sick of people complaining about you complaining? If you stop complianing, that problem will go away.

No, I get it. He's sad because the codex is wrong in some way - in his opinion - and people reply by telling him how it's broken. It must be frustrating.

[Demonus]

Necron Fliers are AV11. Every army save Tyranids has access to ADL/Bastion w/ Quad Gun to deal with them. Several armies have fliers to deal with them. Most armies have lots of shots that can deal with them. Enough with the *****ing.

Helldrakes have 1 gun. Heldrakes suck vs armor 2+ and high av vechicles as well as most MC.

GW prices suck. Nothing makes you pay them. Plenty of people out there selling old GW minis for cheaper price, especially with craigslist and ebay.

Marines are popular. GW wants to make money. They will continue to cater to the people buying marines. Deal with it.

[YorkNecromancer]

Seriously? That easy?

Pretty much. Ink is ink. As long as it's water based, you can manipulate it much like you used to be able to with the old inks. I've not tried much, mind, but the stuff I have tried has been pretty good. Of course, it usually dries gloss, hence my lack of experimentation (I prefer a matt finish.)

Here an example of some painting I did using regular red ink from a craft shop; the ink is on the gauntlet and tendils (basically anything red :)):

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/MaltonNecromancer/PA160340.jpg

[Insert_nickname_here]

Very interesting YN, I followed exactly the same pattern as you did.

Which loosely leads to a minor complaint about the lack of advancement in the setting for 40k. Now I as much as anyone would be interested to know how Abaddon's crusade would finally end, for Ghazghkull to smash Armageddon, the Primarchs to return, the Emperor to awaken/die etc, but I struggle to see the setting remaining viable indefinitely afterwards. The World of Darkness did progress the story through the time of thin blood, the age of reckoning and eventually had the apocalypse supplements. They were all enjoyable reads, and great at the time, but once the Gehenna book was released, they completely restarted the setting, and although we kept playing it had lost a sense of playing in a living world.

A long way of saying to those who want the story to advance, be careful what you wish for.

[YorkNecromancer]

A long way of saying to those who want the story to advance, be careful what you wish for.

The trouble with anything that advances the timeline is that it advances the timeline.

Peter Parker is 16 and bullied at school.

Forever.

Because if he's not, how can new readers possibly get involved? I mean, there's nothing more alienating than continuity lock-out. How many people complained that Lost made no sense? That Doctor Who was too complicated? Any series that runs on for long enough (like say, twenty five years or so) ends up with all manner of continuity snarls that end up rendering even the simple stories bonkers. Look at the X-Men's 616 continuity; it's tghis revolting mess of tedious nonsense with a few brilliant moments that get endlessly repeated to the point of parody, then beyond that into some kind of godawful meta commentary (Upon yet another of Jean Grey's deaths, Cylops is overtly asked "Really Scott, these re-runs of your grief must be getting tiresome by now"). Look at DC and the neverending crises on infinite Earths. Marvel rebooted their entire line with the Ultimate universe, just so they could dump the accreted continuity that was turning off new fans.

Granted, some things will change - Cyclops can eventually leave Jean Grey for Emma Frost - but thet're only ever peripheral things anyway. If Abaddon died, he'd only come back as a clone. His death would be meaningless - it serves no drama. The alternative would be to outright change the setting entirely; if the Imperium collapsed, the game would no longer be 40K.

It's a business decision: do you pander to the hardcore, or reach out for new customers? The answer has to always be new customers, because the hardcore will always be there. Hence, when Peter Parker is finally married, expecting a child and teaching physics, something will come along, like say a deal with Mephisto, that makes him 16 all over again, because that's how the art form works.

40K is a setting, not a story. Good self-contained campaigns already exist, and they're done by Forge World.

[Lexington]

I'm sick and tired of people complaining about how I hover over their bed at night, sniffing their hair and humming showtunes. It's really bringing this community down, and I think we should call these whiners out at every turn.

...what's 40K?