Supplements and the Allies Table

[Morgrim]

I'd like to say outright that I haven't read any of the new supplement books (I don't have an Apple product and none of them seem to have hard copy available yet) so it is possible this question is answered in them. But I'm confused why people are saying things like "Black Legion lets you take an extra hellturkey" etc. I was under the impression that a supplement book supplied some optional special rules for a particular subdivision of a force, but Black Legion are still CSM and Farsight is still Tau and even if every craftworld gets their own book they'll still all be Eldar.

So if you cannot ally with your own army why on earth would playing a supplement list let you dodge this? After all you are allowed to play Black Legion without having the supplement and those Black Legion cannot ally with, say, Alpha Legion. I guess the way I am reading the rules is that an ally has to require a different army book, and supplements fail that test.

[Nabterayl]

I haven't read the Black Legion supplement, but I assume that it changes the FoC for a CSM-as-Black-Legion force. The Iyanden supplement changes the FoC of an eldar-as-Iyanden force, albeit not very radically.

[Patrick Boyle]

Unlike the Iyanden book, both the Farsight and Black Legion supplements specify that a Farsight Enclaves or Black Legion force can ally(As battle brothers in the case of Farsight, I'm assuming the same with Black Legion) with a regular Codex: Tau or Codex: Chaos Space Marines force, and vice versa, and that the supplement forces ally with other armies following the same chart as their parent codex.

Similarly, going by rumors Codex: Space Marines sounds to be getting the ability to ally forces of C:SM that use different chapter traits(i.e. An allied detachment that uses Salamanders chapter traits can ally to a primary detachment that uses Ultramarines chapter traits.

[Defenestratus]

The fact that Iyanden cannot ally with another Eldar force defies logic. So Iyanden will ally with Space Marines and Tau before they'll ally with another craftworld?

So idiotic and stupid.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Needs Errata. As they clearly INTENDED for it to be possible, but forgot to put it in Iyanden :(

[Defenestratus]

Needs Errata. As they clearly INTENDED for it to be possible, but forgot to put it in Iyanden :(

I think you'll see the planets align before that happens.

[DrLove42]

I'm firmly of the belief that a supplement book should not be allowed to ally with its own codex.

Its basically just giving you a expanded FoC, at the low cost of needing 2 HQ's and a 3 troops. This is especiallly true in the books we've got so far where the supplement armies are just the same as the normal armies, but with slight wargear changes.

Supplement books mean you can't take the default codexes wargear. But thanks to allies theres nothing stopping you having two identical squads, one with wargear from one book, one from t;other

You shouldn't be able to ally with your own book. The fact that rumours are suggesting Codex Marines can ally with their own codexes to get the most out of different chapters is deeply worrying.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Until recently they've been very on the ball with getting their errata out. They clearly need a bod who's job it is to nothing but!
I volunteer oh GW Prism style monitor of forums, I volunteer! :eek:

[Caitsidhe]

Of course it is giving you an expanded FoC; that is the entire point as far as GW was concerned (aside from selling you multiple Codex for the same force). Games Workshop's new sales model in 6th Edition was based on SPAM, i.e. massive armies and expanding the size of games. They fully wanted and expected people to play at 2K+ and make full use of the double foci. The heavy emphasis on shooting over all else was intended to make people try massive numbers of large units. All of these were intended to generate sales via you being forced to adapt to keep up. This same logic applies to allies too, which were introduced to get you to buy more armies or expand your FoC via the allies slot.

A funny thing happened, or as the old saying goes, "there is many a slip between cup and lip." The majority of people didn't go for it. Most people just started playing more 1500 and 1850pt tournaments. Pick up games, for the most part, tend to echo local tournament standards. Oddly enough (sarcasm here) people didn't feel the burning need to go buy massive spam armies nor utilize double FoC. Most people found it clunky, expensive, and not worth the time or trouble. In short, we didn't take the bait as a larger group.

Games Workshop's model didn't work so they needed to find another way to expand the FoC at the points level people are actually playing. Enter secondary, tertiary, etc. supplements. If we can't get them to play bigger games or add more armies via allies, we can split the FoC and hopefully expand it via creating options to form alliances with themselves. Certain models sell individually and are limited in slots. These items (say Helldrakes for example) go for around 75-80 new in the US. The only way to get people to buy a fourth one is to hope they play Apoc or give them a way to squeeze a fourth in legally.

It always comes down to following the money. Supplements will continue to allow (for the most part barring silly oversights) these subgroups to form alliances with the main group. To some degree, I think they are also going to use the supplements to address problems they created via poor design in the CSM Codex (and I'm sure others). I am willing to bet you that one of the upcoming supplements will provide alternate stats and rules for Warp Talons, Mutilators, etc. and any other model that simply is not selling.