What do you wish your army did better than they do now?

[Cactus]

Allies seemingly allows players to patch a few holes in their armies. However, is there something you wish your army did better or is there a unit that you think is missing from your codex that you wish you could field? For example; do you wish IG had better psykers? Do you think Dark Eldar need some sort of giant robot to match their older brothers?

For me, I wish Orks had better armor mitigation. I liked the last codex's choppa rules more than I do now because I still can't seem to pop power or termie armor very, despite getting 30 orks throwing lots of dice. Getting past AV14 is also a big problem, outside of hand-to-hand too.

[ElectricPaladin]

These threads are pretty frustrating. They usually seem to be full of complaints that don't make sense. I mean, armies are supposed to be good at some things and bad at others. That's the whole point. I find the attitude of "my army should have no flaws" or "all the flaws of my army should be fixable" really frustrating. If you want a perfectly fair game, play Chess. The point of the game is a certain degree of asymmetry.

That said, there are a few valid complaints. Basically, where an army doesn't manage to deliver on what it's supposed to be about, it's pretty frustrating. For example: it's not that the Blood Angels are a bad army. You can build a lot of great lists with the Blood Angels army book. What's frustrating is that the Blood Angels just aren't as good at assaulting as they are supposed to be. Assault marines will not win a fight with a decent assault force. Sanguinary guard are too expensive and the units are too small to field in force. Vanguard veterans are awesome, but while their drop-and-assault trick is great for disrupting your opponent's plans, it isn't powerful enough to get past their fundamental lousiness.

The Blood Angels are supposed to be the close combat 3+ army, and they just aren't. They can win fist fights with Guard or Tau - sometimes with Eldar, if you choose your target - but that's it. Chaos, Orks, and 'Nids all have the tools to categorically outclass them, and it's often really disheartening.

[magickbk]

All assault armies are suffering right now, but as one of the older Codex books released at this point, it hurts Blood Angels a little more on their basic units.

One thing I wish from Tau is that due to the new heavy rail rifle rules, the entire Tau army got worse at taking down heavily armored vehicles from range. Either you have a tendency to have to get close, or you have to throw lots of dice and hope for 5's and 6's, which annoys me.

[ElectricPaladin]

All assault armies are suffering right now, but as one of the older Codex books released at this point, it hurts Blood Angels a little more on their basic units.

Trust me. I have faith. I think that when the Blood Angels codex gets upgraded - if the general trend of fun and well-written codices continues - they will have all the tools they need to be successful in combat.

For now, it's all about playing them like marines who happen to be a little better in a fight and softening the enemy up with dakka before combat to even the odds.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Not sure if this counts, but i always wished you could do "all canoptek" necron armies. hopefully they'll focus on that aspect in the next update.

[Defenestratus]

I wish that my psyker-mastery race didn't have to flopping roll for psychic powers at the beginning of the game.

/thread.

[Charistoph]

Avoid the Codex Astartes and remember their Grenades.

[jifel]

I wish my "Swarm" Tyranid army had viable swarm builds. Or, you know, assault grenades.

[Phototoxin]

I wish my tau could shoot better... that's more due to my dice though!

BA being a little more survivable to get to melee perhaps, dante hitting at his initiative would be nice too.

Dark Eldar being more 'scary' - a couple of ways to inflict morale checks on units like the old horrorfex would be cool

[DarkLink]

I wish that my psyker-mastery race didn't have to flopping roll for psychic powers at the beginning of the game.

/thread.

What do you mean, randumb is fun!

That was sarcasm, btw.

[Archon]

That said, there are a few valid complaints. Basically, where an army doesn't manage to deliver on what it's supposed to be about, it's pretty frustrating. For example: it's not that the Blood Angels are a bad army. You can build a lot of great lists with the Blood Angels army book. What's frustrating is that the Blood Angels just aren't as good at assaulting as they are supposed to be. Assault marines will not win a fight with a decent assault force. Sanguinary guard are too expensive and the units are too small to field in force. Vanguard veterans are awesome, but while their drop-and-assault trick is great for disrupting your opponent's plans, it isn't powerful enough to get past their fundamental lousiness.

The Blood Angels are supposed to be the close combat 3+ army, and they just aren't. They can win fist fights with Guard or Tau - sometimes with Eldar, if you choose your target - but that's it. Chaos, Orks, and 'Nids all have the tools to categorically outclass them, and it's often really disheartening.

BA can bring Assault units with FnP, Death Company IS devastating. The get access to a highly mobile and survivable flyer-unit wich can deliver a assualt unit and a dread to almost any place. They have fast transport (inkl. fanzy discounts), can drop raiders, have preds, that can shoot all weapons on the run. And i am sure i miss someting else. Terminators with FNP in Raiders for example.

Otherwise you can spam jumppacks to overload the enemy an then get into it.

But: Rhinos are meh, even if the are fast, dreads are meh only 3 HPs, vulnarabel to meltabombs/grenades, jumptroops are meh (they die like servos without jumppacks), death guys are meh, because they are so expensiv with packs ....

If you want, you can run your BA very assaulty. Soften up that orkmob, vindcate thet bossmob (you have 30" vindies) and assualt the rest, flame that eldars and bolter them befor you hammer-of-wrath-them.

In 5th BA have their hightime, but they were played shooty as hell, never assualt-oriented. No it the shooty editon but they can aussault too and have the right tools.

[Cactus]

Not sure if this counts, but i always wished you could do "all canoptek" necron armies. hopefully they'll focus on that aspect in the next update.

No, that counts! I'd also consider an all Genestealer army if that option ever became available again...

[eldargal]

I wish that my psyker-mastery race didn't have to flopping roll for psychic powers at the beginning of the game.

/thread.
This. I actually like the psychic system, including the random bits, but if there is one thing eldar should be able to do is remove that one piece of randomness from their gameplay. Because they are THE psychic masters of the 40k universe (Tzeentch notwithstanding).

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

No, that counts! I'd also consider an all Genestealer army if that option ever became available again...

I'm really hoping they'll bring back the "old" wraiths but make them a new unit, that can be made a troops choice. Make it a duel kit with a variant unit for elites - and put out an HQ and it's pretty much sorted. I guess they'll be one of the last 6th edition codex books - but considering how fast things are moving now, that shouldnt be more than a couple of years now.

Yeah, I liked the all-genestealer armies - they need to put out a proper kit for Ymrgl's though, and a broodlord more like that space hulk one...

/OCD when it comes to 40k/

[Mr.Pickelz]

If there was a way to "recton" or just delete the GK's new fluff (or at least 1/2 of it) then that's my biggest wish.
-I know Psycannons got better, but i miss the two shot system, either Assault 18 inches or Heavy 36. This gave the gun a bit more special feel for me, and really gave that "stands out from the rest" shine that Grey Knights have, as well as adding to their long range firepower.
- Give back the Nemesis weapons +2 strength characteristic, and have Hammerhand not stackable. Adjust model point costs to reflect.
- Give more options for inquisitors, an inquisition force outside of Coteaz requirements would be nice. Allied IG is great and all, but currently your forced to take a squad of Grey knights as well. :(
- Storm Shields on Paladins/Terminators.... I know people will complain it's broken, but it would be Epic. And, each Paladin would pretty much be a SM Captain in points cost so a full unit would only be playable above 1,500 points...
- Give back WS 5 to all GK's.

[Wildcard]

I agree alot with Mr. Pickelz.
I do like my armies to reflect the fluff. Currently GK is lacking badly. Note that i do not wish to overpower the army, so the points would most definately have to go up.. by how much, its really irrelevant for now..


Melee
-Increase the WS across the board on grey knights. "Best of the best" does not quite feel like it with the statline of 4's..
- Gigantic stormshield option for the N Dreadknight.

Ranged
-I would like to see Mr.Pickelz take on psycannons expanded to all weapons, with a twist.
All guns would have a characteristic alteration based on warpcharge points use (most likely with the need to use psychic test at the shooting phase):

-- Psycannons: Increase the range of the weapon by 12" for each warpcharge point used
-- Heavy Psycannon: Increase the number of shots by 1 (for total of Heavy 2, large blast), when warpcharge is used.
-- Psilencers: Total revamp of the functionality. AP1, Strength (shooters ld, compared against targets ld), -1 to targets ld for every warpcharge spent (deny the witch against wound allocated from the shot)
-- Incinerators: Add +6" range for first warp charge spent, maybe make either ap3 or rending if 2 warp charges were used (in addition for the +6").
-- Heavy Incinerator:
-- Stormbolters or possibly any bolter(with psybolts): possibility to choose from effects (or stack based on warpcharges used in squad), 1 WP= +1str, 2 WP = rending (in addition to +1str), OR then use 1 wp and choose either +1 str or rending .

This would mean that the HQ:s warp charge points would have to be included in the total pool of the squad. This would greatly increase the general theme of "GK HQ's main role is to support the force".

That would definately give them unique twist, with enough specialiced function centered around the idea "every member are psyker and every piece of wargear psycho-reactive.

General
-I would like the named HQs be done in a way that they are actually worth taking instead of normal captain/grand master. Also add some of the
great fluffy characters from the lore (hyperion for excample)

/EDIT: Oh, and True Grit(ish) skill, giving +1A from stormbolters (possibly limit to swords - but this was my original idea before i wanted to expand the psycho reactive wargear to defensive skills as well, given below).

And the one i intended to include, but forgot:
Defensive
Using warpcharge to boost power armor / terminator armor ornate wards to grant +1 to invulnerable save (6+ if no inv save present). Possibility to use only 1 warpcharge at a time, but swords enhance / augment this with further +1 (meaning termies would forego their offensive powers and weapon loadout for 3++ save in cc and 4++ in the open And power armors would get the 4++ in cc and 5++ in the open (with swords)

[Ravingbantha]

I wish my eldar could get out of their tanks a little faster. It would aslo be nice if they had the same webway options their Dark and Corsair brethern have.

[Katharon]

Ever since 6th came out I've heard a ton of whining to accompany my cheese and focaccia bread, mostly about how "assault is dead" or "assault has been totally nerfed". In the spirit of debate, I disagree. Rather than assault being nerfed, shooting simply got a buff -- and so did assault. The only reason people say that assault has been nerfed is because they have never had to truly face a large amount of opposition in the long-range part of the game - until now.

Firstly, let's look at what they did with shooting that increased the strengths of ranged weaponry. The first example would naturally be "Overwatch," where a unit that is being charged by an enemy unit can release a rushed salvo of shots at BS1. In my opinion this was something that I always felt was missing from previous editions of Warhammer 40K. We're in the future, sci-fi, and we've got guns. If someone comes around a corner, screaming at you and wielding a giant cleaver the size of your chest, your first instinct is not going to be "put down my gun and pull out my own sword". No. Not at all. You're first instinct is going to be to spray as much lead and las fire into the general direction of this screaming mad man that wants to chop you up into sushi. Units fire at BS1, so it's not a nerf to assault, but simply a buff to shooting.

Secondly, we have the "random charge distance" of 2D6 inches. Again, people seem to have misinterpreted this as a nerf to assault. Heck no! This is a giant buff! You get to assault up to 12"! That's friggen ridiculous! Cavalry and bike units are able to now get across a board and assault in turn one! NOTHING COULD DO THAT BEFORE!

(*falls out of chair, gets up, coughs, returns to seat*)

Hmm, but yes - as I was saying: it's a huge buff to assault. You can assault further and get into assault faster. So what if you have to roll and you occasionally get a combined roll of 2 or 3 inches -- your statistical average of the most likely number to be gotten when rolling 2D6 is a 7. I'll take that over the old guaranteed 6" assault range any day.

Thirdly, we have the new special rule changes that were made for "Rage." No longer am I able to lead a squad of Death Company on a goose-chase with a Chimera simply because it's the closest enemy model and they have to chase it because they are Angry Marines! Instead, they have +2 attacks on the charge and are totally intelligible enough to pick a target and run at it until they're close enough to turn it into mince meat or rubble. Another buff to assault if there was one.

Fourth, close combat weapons are now more deadly than ever. AP3 for power weapons, and new special rules like "Concussive" and "Blind" for other weapon types and units (deep striking is awesome with Blind)...there really isn't a downside to these things. Not only can you get into assault faster, further, and swing more - you're also going to be that much more deadly due to the weapon in your hand.



Assault is nerfed? Assault is dead? No. Far from it. The old version of assault where you got to charge across an open field and made it to the other side -- that assault is over. The new assault where you have to not be a numb-skull, use cover to your advantage, and think tactically in order to not try and reenact the Charge of the Light Brigade every game -- that assault is well and alive.

[Katharon]

I agree alot with Mr. Pickelz.
I do like my armies to reflect the fluff. Currently GK is lacking badly. Note that i do not wish to overpower the army, so the points would most definately have to go up.. by how much, its really irrelevant for now..


Melee
-Increase the WS across the board on grey knights. "Best of the best" does not quite feel like it with the statline of 4's..
- Gigantic stormshield option for the N Dreadknight.

Ranged
-I would like to see Mr.Pickelz take on psycannons expanded to all weapons, with a twist.
All guns would have a characteristic alteration based on warpcharge points use (most likely with the need to use psychic test at the shooting phase):

-- Psycannons: Increase the range of the weapon by 12" for each warpcharge point used
-- Heavy Psycannon: Increase the number of shots by 1 (for total of Heavy 2, large blast), when warpcharge is used.
-- Psilencers: Total revamp of the functionality. AP1, Strength (shooters ld, compared against targets ld), -1 to targets ld for every warpcharge spent (deny the witch against wound allocated from the shot)
-- Incinerators: Add +6" range for first warp charge spent, maybe make either ap3 or rending if 2 warp charges were used (in addition for the +6").
-- Heavy Incinerator:
-- Stormbolters or possibly any bolter(with psybolts): possibility to choose from effects (or stack based on warpcharges used in squad), 1 WP= +1str, 2 WP = rending (in addition to +1str), OR then use 1 wp and choose either +1 str or rending .

This would mean that the HQ:s warp charge points would have to be included in the total pool of the squad. This would greatly increase the general theme of "GK HQ's main role is to support the force".

That would definately give them unique twist, with enough specialiced function centered around the idea "every member are psyker and every piece of wargear psycho-reactive.

General
-I would like the named HQs be done in a way that they are actually worth taking instead of normal captain/grand master. Also add some of the
great fluffy characters from the lore (hyperion for excample)

/EDIT: Oh, and True Grit(ish) skill, giving +1A from stormbolters (possibly limit to swords - but this was my original idea before i wanted to expand the psycho reactive wargear to defensive skills as well, given below).

And the one i intended to include, but forgot:
Defensive
Using warpcharge to boost power armor / terminator armor ornate wards to grant +1 to invulnerable save (6+ if no inv save present). Possibility to use only 1 warpcharge at a time, but swords enhance / augment this with further +1 (meaning termies would forego their offensive powers and weapon loadout for 3++ save in cc and 4++ in the open And power armors would get the 4++ in cc and 5++ in the open (with swords)


...*pulls out bolt pistol and aims with a quivering hand*

"QUICK! SOMEONE GET THE COPS! I'VE FOUND MATT WARD WEARING THE SKIN OF ANOTHER!"



Nah, but in all seriousness, the GK don't need any of these kinds of buffs. They're already really awesome. People just need to stop using the same old lists from 5th edition and learn to be more varied in competing with the new armies coming out in 6th. Also, if they ever gave the Dreadknight a stormshield option - I'd expend all my savings to buy a ticket, fly to Manchester, find Matt Ward or whoever put in the edit, and punch them in the face, then walk away.

[Mr.Pickelz]

My intention with the changes to GK's is bring them back a little to the DH codex from 3rd Ed. Which had the GK's as a good stand alone Astartes "chapter" that didn't fit with any other SM book (Ultra's, SW, BA, BT, DA)
With the current profile of the Psycannon, but changing the range bands and shots back to older version the Gun would give it a more special feel, to me at least. And, having it ignore invulnerable saves would just be "icing on the cake". :D
Especially with the changes to armor saves and invul save dependency with the new Daemons and CSM book.

I am one of the people that feel the Assault Phase has been nerfed (not dead, just weaker), with the main reason being that Shooting's buffs out plays Assault's under 6th ed. However, this isn't the thread to speak on "Assault Phase vs. Shooting Phase".

[Daemonette666]

Considering how expensive most, but not all of the CSM codex is, they are supposed to be an elite close assault force that may not have the heavy weapons to win a shoot em fight, but they are supposed to be able to get into combat fast and hit hard. They also traditionally are suppose to have the ability to drop pod troops in, and the lousy, expensive and unarmed Dreadclaw do not count because of the silly rules FW have given it.

They need a transport flier like SMs get, a decent drop pod, some outflanking or pesky annoying infiltrating troops that do not cost a planets annual budget in points value to add to the army. They also need a better Anti-flier option similar to a hydra AA gun, but maybe daemon possessed and it can spit out daemonic lightning arcs in the sky, or something like that to make it chaos-y.

Some of the units we have now are a waste of space - Mutilators, and to a lesser degree Possessed. They are assault troops with no ranged weapons, so were are my frag grenades? I know, Mutilators with Dirge Casters inbuilt into their Armour, that would be good but over powered, so just give them the frag grenades.

The current 6th edition Meta is mainly built around massed infantry, lots of fire power, decent high strength, low AP weapons, some of which are blast/ordnance, weapons that ignore cover, or equipment can remove your cover save bonus, and lots of fast scoring and denial units to distract, and snipe at the enemy, and lastly fliers and anti-flier Skyfire/intercept units. Vehicles are in decline, but not out all together, as fast tanks, cheap transports that you can get loads of, and a few exceptions like the fast walker - Mauler fiend have proven they can outlast the declining vehicle trend.

Horde Armies are popular, but easily able to be countered - IG artillery, lots of Tau, Eldar and IG massed shooting, of which we can expect C: SM to add cheap tactical squads to the list to provide even better wall of lead to take the hordes down.

Monstrous creatures were pretty good in the early part of 6th ed 40K, but with so many poisoned weapons. and the now rumoured graviton gun coming out, their high toughness (6 or up to 8) is virtually voided, especially if they have decent armour values. FNP helps to ease this, but just hope the weapons are not also instant death.

Each Codex needs to be a master of one tactic possibly a few, and lesser master of all the other tactics. For C: CSM, Assault fast movement, Sorcerers/psykers and fliers should be their thing, with hordes, massed heavy weapons units and artillery being their not so good thing, (but they still have it).

Where a race/codex does not get psykers, they should have a inbuilt ability/upgrade or unit that helps the army to resist psychic attacks. If a race/codex gets psykers, but can not get psychic hoods, etc, they should be able to get equipment to allow re-rolls of their failed psychic tests. Chaos Sorcerers and Daemon Princes can get Spell familiars. Eldar get their Ghost Helms. SO everything seems OK in that regard. There are some races that have missed out in psychic defenses however - Yes Tau, and I do not even use that army.

As to Orks and what Cactus was talking about. What if they made it so any Ork units with a model within 12" of a Ork Psyker (as they have a useless set of powers, and therefore suck at their job) get a 6+ invul save. It would mitigate many of the AP 5 bolter fore that thrown at them. Especially now that many armies are getting weapons and equipment to ignore their cover? It would make Ork armies a bit more durable, and give the Green tide a huge boost.

I know many might disagree with me, but it will bring balance back to the game.

[Phototoxin]

I wish my eldar could get out of their tanks a little faster. It would aslo be nice if they had the same webway options their Dark and Corsair brethern have.

Random thought and no rulebook to check (on holidays) - could you ally with dark eldar and then turn one put your banshees in a raider?

[Archon Charybdis]

Random thought and no rulebook to check (on holidays) - could you ally with dark eldar and then turn one put your banshees in a raider?

Can't use an ally's transports.

While just saying "gimme an assault transport" is a kind of a quick inelegant fix to the problem of having fragile assault units, I do think a Falcon with an assault ramp would've stood out more against the Wave Serpent and Fire Prism.

[Wildcard]

...*pulls out bolt pistol and aims with a quivering hand*

"QUICK! SOMEONE GET THE COPS! I'VE FOUND MATT WARD WEARING THE SKIN OF ANOTHER!"



Nah, but in all seriousness, the GK don't need any of these kinds of buffs. They're already really awesome. People just need to stop using the same old lists from 5th edition and learn to be more varied in competing with the new armies coming out in 6th. Also, if they ever gave the Dreadknight a stormshield option - I'd expend all my savings to buy a ticket, fly to Manchester, find Matt Ward or whoever put in the edit, and punch them in the face, then walk away.

Shoot me all you want, but as a result, please give me solutions that walk hand in hand with the fluff. So please comment atleast the following.

Wargear: Every GK is psyker and is equipped with psycho reactive wargear
Melee skills: Best of the best, average Grey Knight easily on par with the best of the Space Marines.
Shooty stuff: Something other than just plain 24" psycannon spam. Its not fun to play, nor it is fun to play against.

Also comment on the Stormshield on DreadKnight: Its absurd that a unit that is supposed to go against huge terrifying monsters, that hit faster and harder than a blast from a battletank wouldn't have anything but its own (lesser) speed to counter that. And its a knight, every knight should have the option to hold a shield :)

Also, i ain't using "any old lists". Granted i dont use anything inquisition / henchmen related stuff, nor do i use allies. GK are GK, not Silver Knights leading mortal ragtag groups.

EDIT: Oh, and i am not trying to 'gain an edge', far from it.. I play for fun, and bolstered by the new rulebooks guidance for storytelling, I always try to find a suitable story, and backround for the battle and forces in it.

My goal with the original hopes were to redesign the Grey Knights to follow the fluff, and give them unique mechanic, based on both the fluff and already established design (every gk being psykers)

/EDIT

[Asuryan]

Wargear: Every GK is psyker and is equipped with psycho reactive wargear

And its a knight, every knight should have the option to hold a shield :)/EDIT

The Wraithknight is also a knight but it has a shield that gives it the same ivuln as the Dreadknight gets on it's own. And as every GK is a psyker, so is every eldar but we got nothing for it.

[Wildcard]

Well, as i said, my propositions/wishlisting/design/etc was just to make gk different from rest of the marines, while staying true to the fluff, and working on the already established design-frame (all psykers were just an example).

And riptide is just a big monstrous creature - and it has invulnerable save as well, not to mention the ability to overcharge it to 3++. Its just a matter of tactic how and when to use it in stead of some other power - offensive in this case.. so nothing unpresented nor game breaking yet..

[MajorWesJanson]

I'd like to see Nemesis weapons brought into more line of power weapons. Instead of having to pay to upgrade, all cost the same, but each has a different ability- Nemesis Swords give +1 WS as they are the standard and GK have more practice with them. Halberds give +1I. Falchions give +1A for being a pair. Thunder Hammer and WArding Staff remain purchased upgrades, with the hammer as a hammer, and the warding staff changed to not be a save caddy, but to give a 3+ save against perils if the bearer miscasts, and a +1 to DTW saves.

[Wildcard]

and the warding staff changed to not be a save caddy, but to give a 3+ save against perils if the bearer miscasts, and a +1 to DTW saves.

I know it is a matter of preference, but on "my design" it could be so that "base bonus" would be 3+ save against perils. Use 1 warp charge and it would be also 3+ invulnerable save, add 2nd warpcharge and it'll be 4+ inv for the squad and with 3 warp charges something like 4-5++ 6"-12" bubble..

Its so easy to play around the warpcharge stuff and effects that gain strenght based on how much effort is psychically put into using it..

[Demonus]

While just saying "gimme an assault transport" is a kind of a quick inelegant fix to the problem of having fragile assault units, I do think a Falcon with an assault ramp would've stood out more against the Wave Serpent and Fire Prism.

That would have been awesome.

[Archon]

I wish my army could infiltrate / flank ... when i want it, without the use of a special charakter or the rolling of three ... guess what do i play?

[Joe TwoCrows]

Dark Eldar? Hmm, similar wishes as most here, although possibly more narrative-friendly : Better shooting at things in the air, without relying on fortifications. Just not narrative. The Razorwing isn't enough. So, probably just be able to buy Skyfire and (separately) Interceptors for Raiders and Ravagers.

Faster assault. First turn assault can be hugely disruptive, but the narrative suggests the DE of all the armies should have the best ability or possibility there. What I'd really like is having aethersails not count against combat speed ;-)

At least assaulting reserves out of the webway, dagnabit!!

Oh, a few survivability tweaks; 5++ for the Talos and Chronos (how is it narrative for a monstrous CREATED creature to not have an invuln?), ignore cover weapons are still disadvantaged against Reavers moving flat out, a racewide 5+ Deny the Witch (simply from their constant struggle against She Who Thirsts), I'd like a FAQ that the wyches' dodge save 'counts as' but is not an invuln, hence not affected by psychic effects, like psychic hood.

Really, relatively small things that simply emphasize the qualities the DE possess, None of these, except possibly assaulting with aethersails, change the game much. Webway? Still need a turn to get it in place, so it can't be set up ahead of time.

One other thing. I'd like mandrakes to be actually useful in the game. (and Kheragdruhkar as well). That would make every unit in the DE codex viable. And such gorgeous models.

[Archon Charybdis]

Dark Eldar? Hmm, similar wishes as most here, although possibly more narrative-friendly : Better shooting at things in the air, without relying on fortifications. Just not narrative. The Razorwing isn't enough. So, probably just be able to buy Skyfire and (separately) Interceptors for Raiders and Ravagers.

DE just suffer from having late 5th ed book, so technically we have flyers but otherwise no AA to speak of. I agree the Razorwing could use a re-work (if nothing else, some anti-air missiles on our missile laden 'fighter' would be nice).


Faster assault. First turn assault can be hugely disruptive, but the narrative suggests the DE of all the armies should have the best ability or possibility there. What I'd really like is having aethersails not count against combat speed ;-)

Do like the idea of faster assault, given the fluff of lightning raids and being on top of the enemy before they even know they're being attacked. It'd also go a long ways toward making Wyches viable again.


At least assaulting reserves out of the webway, dagnabit!!

This too, and honestly as this was a change I really hated in 6th ed to begin with, I'd like to see more exceptions to this in general. Having some units capable of assaulting out of Reserves would help accentuate the lightning speed of such units (the Lictor would be a great example).


Oh, a few survivability tweaks; 5++ for the Talos and Chronos (how is it narrative for a monstrous CREATED creature to not have an invuln?)

Same way a Wraithlord or any TMC doesn't have one. Would be nice for them to start with Altered Physique though and have 5+ FNP though.


One other thing. I'd like mandrakes to be actually useful in the game. (and Kheragdruhkar as well). That would make every unit in the DE codex viable. And such gorgeous models.

Very much agree. Even if it means they stay only so-so in CC, I'd like to see them get some ability to assault the turn they arrive.

[Fanboy]

Simple, Blood Angels Furious Charge should be +1 str AND +1 Initiative. 6th ed sucks.

[Archon Charybdis]

Simple, Blood Angels Furious Charge should be +1 str AND +1 Initiative. 6th ed sucks.

Cause nobody else who had Furious Charge would've liked to keep their +1 Initiative.

[Fanboy]

LOL, correct...... No seriously, BA or any other army, Furious Charge should have stayed +1str and +1 Initiative.......

[troglodytesrus]

Paint themselves.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

i wish they had kept it so that each army has very telling strengths and weaknesses this whole every army needs to be able to be just like every other army drives me insane. i want an army that has some weaknesses not either an army thats has none or an army thats all weakness...

[Da Gargoyle]

Harking back to earlier comments I have found the combination of the new codex and ed 6 rules quite debilitating for Eldar assault. I don't mind the overwatch and the uncertainty of the charge range and possibly a failed leadership check if overwatch does too much damage. However the AP3 rule on power swords reduced the Eldar to a single AP2 assault weapon. And now that costs a fortune because it needs an exarch and costs heaps as a weapon choice, an additional 55 points for an S6 power klaw, really? The other irritation is that now Eldar wont get into assault until turn 3, You can't dismount from vehicles that move over 6", (Fast is not an advantage anymore), you can't assault the turn you dismount, even if the vehicle had not moved yet, You can't flank until at least second turn and then you can't assault, you can't deep strike until second turn and you can't assault the same turn you deep strike, (And lets face it who would assault with spiders or hawks ?). They finally give wraith guard assault weapons but they can't kill terminators and they are as expensive. I am re-thinking the army and how I play it but even my scorpions will now be counter assault, and what was the deal changing the acrobatic rule. Extra movement instead of counter attack? I see a theme here. There are good new things in the Eldar codex, but it cost a lot to get them and it is so reminiscent of the revised Ork codex. High points cost for reduced effectiveness in characters that lead the squads.

[MajorWesJanson]

I'd like to see all armies vehicles change to Combat speed 6" may fire all weapons, cruising speed 12" may fire one weapon and snapshoot others, flat out only available to fast vehicles.

[Demonus]

to be fair about that ap2 power claw for 55pts, you are paying a surcharge to attack at init 6/5 instead of init 1. a sgt with pf comes in at 41, so 14pts to kill 2-3 models before they strike isnt bad (vs non inv save guys)

i think DE will be fine for AA once they get updated. they just have to wait until their turn. at least they get fliers, SW get allies and fortifications (or spray and pray) for killing those things.

[Archon Charybdis]

and possibly a failed leadership check if overwatch does too much damage.

AFB, but I'm fairly sure that Overwatch explicitly does not cause morale checks.



However the AP3 rule on power swords reduced the Eldar to a single AP2 assault weapon. And now that costs a fortune because it needs an exarch and costs heaps as a weapon choice, an additional 55 points for an S6 power klaw, really?

Sorry, but that's just completely wrong. There's plenty of AP2 aside from the claw, which as has been pointed out is not a whole lot more expensive than a Pfst sergeant but nets you an extra attack, WS5, and striking at a whopping I6--I'd say it's worth it. But in terms of AP2 weapons you have the Dire Sword, power axes, Ghost Axes, The Avatar, Wraithlords, Harlequin's Kiss, Wraithknights, Executioners, Star Lance, and 4/6 of the Phoenix Lord's weapons. There are other factors that make Eldar not a great CC army (or at least not with the units that were good in 5th), but it has little to do with access to AP2.


The other irritation is that now Eldar wont get into assault until turn 3

This is mostly why CC is a lot less viable (or at least different) for Eldar in 6th ed. This and many of the 6th ed changes affect all armies though, it's not like it's a uniquely Eldar thing. You can still have effective CC units that can make turn 1 or 2 assaults in the form of Scorpions and Shining Spears. Hell, Banshees can pretty feasibly do a turn 2 charge, they're just not worth taking for other reasons.


They finally give wraith guard assault weapons but they can't kill terminators and they are as expensive.

I can't speak too much to Wraithblades as I haven't used them myself, but with the Axe/Shield they're 8pts a model less than regular termies (13 less than the new TH/SS price), and math-wise against regular termies in an out-and-out slugfest they only perform marginally worse, which you might expect at 40pts less for the unit. Of course they're going to lose against TH/SS termies, because if you're trying to kill TH/SS termies with anything other than weight of fire you're doing it wrong.


High points cost for reduced effectiveness in characters that lead the squads.

Really don't see it, outside of DA exarchs. The exarch upgrade itself went down a couple points, the powers are all still in roughly the same range and are generally identical or comparably useful to what they were in the last book. The only things I rather miss are old-school Bladestorm and Tank Hunters on my Dragons (though Fast Shot helps).

[Asuryan]

The other irritation is that now Eldar wont get into assault until turn 3. Actually pretty much everything with battle focus can get into CC by turn 2, unless your opponent is actively trying to stay out of CC. One of my favorite things is to move a squad of Dire avengers with Asurmen up, battle focus with fleet, then fire at a unit. if they get charged the opponent should only need around average depending on terrain and run rolls. And if they don't assault you then they have to run to stay out of your threat range and then you can just keep mowing them down.


Really don't see it, outside of DA exarchs. The exarch upgrade itself went down a couple points, the powers are all still in roughly the same range and are generally identical or comparably useful to what they were in the last book. The only things I rather miss are old-school Bladestorm and Tank Hunters on my Dragons (though Fast Shot helps).

I agree I completely miss the 3 shot ability for my DA's but the fact that the Exarchs lost the squad wide benefits, with the exception of the shimmer shield, and a few other exarch abilities, such as Monster hunter and Hit and run, I prefer that I can accept a challenge with an exarch and not only expect them to win but if I lose then I don't lose the 80pt model that was carrying the unit, I just lose the 80pt character upgrade.

[Fanboy]

i think DE will be fine for AA once they get updated. they just have to wait until their turn. at least they get fliers, SW get allies and fortifications (or spray and pray) for killing those things.

Correct. Thats why GW gave us/you allies, a stop gap until your updated codex. Use your allies to make up for the gaps. SWs can take IG allies with vendettas....... or SM, or BA, or etc, etc as stated above....

[DarkLink]

Actually pretty much everything with battle focus can get into CC by turn 2, unless your opponent is actively trying to stay out of CC.

Either he's got something that beats you in assault, or he just kites you and shoots you to death. Either way, you lose.

[Da Gargoyle]

Gentlemen, and other beings, I am still reading through your posts but please accept my ravings as those of a bitter and twisted elf. Perhaps I should become Dark Eldar? I was particularly caught out with the whinge on the Scorpion Claw, but there is a GW staff member who sided with my opponent stating flatly that a claw is a claw and strikes last. I will be having a word with him, codex in hand. In the mean time I have a scratch built Exarch with chainsabres, he is likely to get a run if I use Scorpions.


AFB, but I'm fairly sure that Overwatch explicitly does not cause morale checks.,

That was my own error, I assumed 25% casualties means moral check. (And we know how *** u me [mostly me] breaks down).

Having vented however, I then reverted to my spread sheet and have come up with a new base army list, ditching some of my favoured previous choices.

Part of my whinge was based on my using wave serpents to get a combined force across the table and assaulting by turn two. Usually Banshees and Storm Guardians. There was a base unit using something heavy, rangers usually upgraded to pathfinders and a squad of guardians with a scatter laser. Never quite found the right use for Dire Avengers, I only played against Eldar twice and on both occasions had the DA squads in the dust by turn two. I mostly play against SM, Gk, CSM & when he is in the mood for it, a swag load of IG my son fields. For 1500 he can field 2 platoons & a distraction like a tank or basilisk.

In the meantime I will continue to absorb your wisdom and ponder my disposition.

[Crazy Jedi]

Ever since 6th came out I've heard a ton of whining to accompany my cheese and focaccia bread, mostly about how "assault is dead" or "assault has been totally nerfed". In the spirit of debate, I disagree. Rather than assault being nerfed, shooting simply got a buff -- and so did assault. The only reason people say that assault has been nerfed is because they have never had to truly face a large amount of opposition in the long-range part of the game - until now.

Firstly, let's look at what they did with shooting that increased the strengths of ranged weaponry. The first example would naturally be "Overwatch," where a unit that is being charged by an enemy unit can release a rushed salvo of shots at BS1. In my opinion this was something that I always felt was missing from previous editions of Warhammer 40K. We're in the future, sci-fi, and we've got guns. If someone comes around a corner, screaming at you and wielding a giant cleaver the size of your chest, your first instinct is not going to be "put down my gun and pull out my own sword". No. Not at all. You're first instinct is going to be to spray as much lead and las fire into the general direction of this screaming mad man that wants to chop you up into sushi. Units fire at BS1, so it's not a nerf to assault, but simply a buff to shooting.

Secondly, we have the "random charge distance" of 2D6 inches. Again, people seem to have misinterpreted this as a nerf to assault. Heck no! This is a giant buff! You get to assault up to 12"! That's friggen ridiculous! Cavalry and bike units are able to now get across a board and assault in turn one! NOTHING COULD DO THAT BEFORE!

(*falls out of chair, gets up, coughs, returns to seat*)

Hmm, but yes - as I was saying: it's a huge buff to assault. You can assault further and get into assault faster. So what if you have to roll and you occasionally get a combined roll of 2 or 3 inches -- your statistical average of the most likely number to be gotten when rolling 2D6 is a 7. I'll take that over the old guaranteed 6" assault range any day.

Thirdly, we have the new special rule changes that were made for "Rage." No longer am I able to lead a squad of Death Company on a goose-chase with a Chimera simply because it's the closest enemy model and they have to chase it because they are Angry Marines! Instead, they have +2 attacks on the charge and are totally intelligible enough to pick a target and run at it until they're close enough to turn it into mince meat or rubble. Another buff to assault if there was one.

Fourth, close combat weapons are now more deadly than ever. AP3 for power weapons, and new special rules like "Concussive" and "Blind" for other weapon types and units (deep striking is awesome with Blind)...there really isn't a downside to these things. Not only can you get into assault faster, further, and swing more - you're also going to be that much more deadly due to the weapon in your hand.



Assault is nerfed? Assault is dead? No. Far from it. The old version of assault where you got to charge across an open field and made it to the other side -- that assault is over. The new assault where you have to not be a numb-skull, use cover to your advantage, and think tactically in order to not try and reenact the Charge of the Light Brigade every game -- that assault is well and alive.

But I like reenacting the Charge of the Light Brigade

I really wish Dreadnoughts could be equipped as a cc beatstick, something with 6 attacks and AV13 or an extra HP maybe...
I'd be willing to 200 points for one too, just because I love the look of Dreads

[Hexx2019]

I played black templars every battle was kinda charge of the light brigade for me xD