Oversized units and transports

[Brandoncbaker]

The rules state that even if a squad size is larger than the passenger limit of a transport the squad can still take it. (Ie a 10 man Tac suad buying a Razorback).
What if say a 20 man Death Company purchases a Drop Pd for its Dedicated Transport.Can the remaining 10 then board a StormRaven which is a Heavy Support with transport ability?

Thanks

[Wolfshade]

No. The death company cannot be split. If you wanted to do that you'd need to take Astrorath the Grim and take them as two seperate DC units.

[Brandoncbaker]

That makes sence. I guess if they had the combat squad rule it would work? Thanks

[Wolfshade]

I don't know.

I know with the DC it is a moot point but a 10 man tactical squad in a purchased razorback and other (non-dedicated) transport. I would have to consider this, I don't have my rule books with me at the moment.

[Nabterayl]

a 10 man tactical squad in a purchased razorback and other (non-dedicated) transport.
That's totally fine. The combat squads rule states that each combat squad is a separate unit for all purposes, so they can absolutely jump into two separate transports. At that point, they're only "one squad" from a fluff standpoint.

[Tyrendian]

but you can buy a dedicated transport for a unit that is too large to fit into it unless specified otherwise right? thinking of a Ghost Ark for a Necron Warrior blob in particular...

[Cactus]

In Horus Heresy: Betrayal, rules were written in for each unit and their dedicated transports. For example (not actual wording) "If a unit of Legion troops numbers less than 10 models, it can purchase a Rhino as a dedicated transport."

I'm surprised this kind of lingo hasn't crept into regular 40k this edition.

[Nabterayl]

I think that's a deliberate design philosophy difference. The normal rule in this edition is you can buy a dedicated transport even if you cannot fit into it, so yes, a necron warrior blob can absolutely purchase a Ghost Ark that it could not (without taking casualties) fit into.

[magickbk]

In Horus Heresy: Betrayal, rules were written in for each unit and their dedicated transports. For example (not actual wording) "If a unit of Legion troops numbers less than 10 models, it can purchase a Rhino as a dedicated transport."

I'm surprised this kind of lingo hasn't crept into regular 40k this edition.

The older editions used to have this phrasing, and they slowly phased it out. I assume this is to allow Marines to combat squad and have one in a Razorback, but then it would be a secondary advantage against other armies to allow them to take additional vehicles that other armies couldn't in their Force Org chart.

[mathhammer]

The rules state that even if a squad size is larger than the passenger limit of a transport the squad can still take it. (Ie a 10 man Tac suad buying a Razorback).
What if say a 20 man Death Company purchases a Drop Pd for its Dedicated Transport.Can the remaining 10 then board a StormRaven which is a Heavy Support with transport ability?
Thanks

I think another problem with this exact setup is the 10 man squad doesn't actually combat squad until their deployed from the drop pod. So they have no way of splitting in reserve and getting into the StormRaven. I also think even if the squad could combat squad in reserve it would be in the wrong reserve bucket. (deepstrike verses normal board edge reserve ( outflank is the third bucket))

[Nabterayl]

I think another problem with this exact setup is the 10 man squad doesn't actually combat squad until their deployed from the drop pod. So they have no way of splitting in reserve and getting into the StormRaven. I also think even if the squad could combat squad in reserve it would be in the wrong reserve bucket. (deepstrike verses normal board edge reserve ( outflank is the third bucket))
That's not true since the erratum. As page 51 now states, "You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads, and which models go into each combat squad, immediately before deployment." You now combat squad before anybody gets into the drop pod.

Yes, Tynskel, I know they changed it to read how you always thought it read ;)

[Ben_S]

Dark Eldar can only take Dedicated Transports if the unit size is less than the transport capacity.

I don't know about all other armies, but if Marines are an exception maybe it's because of combat squads.

[Mr Mystery]

I think another problem with this exact setup is the 10 man squad doesn't actually combat squad until their deployed from the drop pod. So they have no way of splitting in reserve and getting into the StormRaven. I also think even if the squad could combat squad in reserve it would be in the wrong reserve bucket. (deepstrike verses normal board edge reserve ( outflank is the third bucket))

In that specific example, quite so. But only for the Drop Pod.

Unless I'm missing something, you could in theory purchase them a Razorback, and have the other demisquad in whatever comes to hand?

[Nabterayl]

Unless I'm missing something, you could in theory purchase them a Razorback, and have the other demisquad in whatever comes to hand?
If you mean for a normal 10-man squad, yeah, absolutely. You'd just need to follow the normal rules about not starting a unit in another unit's dedicated transport.

[Tynskel]

That's not true since the erratum. As page 51 now states, "You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads, and which models go into each combat squad, immediately before deployment." You now combat squad before anybody gets into the drop pod.

Yes, Tynskel, I know they changed it to read how you always thought it read ;)

:) Happy Dance!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSjO-rWMuJo

[Brandoncbaker]

How about this. If say a 20man DC squad buys a land raider. If the models not in the transport stay in coherency.is this ok?

[Nabterayl]

No, it isn't. If the entire unit cannot fit inside, no part of it can embark at all, even if the guys who don't fit stay within 2" of the transport. As page 78 says, "The entire unit must be embarked on the Transport if any part of it is - a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across multiple Transports."

[Daemonette666]

This conundrum has been asked many times before and answered quite well each time, even if it did spark the usual rush of trolls and verbal arguments.

A dedicated transport (unless your codex specifically over rules this) can be bought for a unit that can not fit into it. Space Marines can combat squad and some ride in the dedicated transport, while others ride in another transport (not a dedicated transport) such a Storm Raven (because of the FAQ).

Other armies like Codex CSM, Necrons, etc can buy the dedicated transport for the unit, even if the unit is too large for it, but the unit can not jump aboard the transport until they sustain enough casualties to reduce their numbers to allow the squad aboard the transport.

A unit is not allowed to start the game in aboard another transport if they purchased their own dedicated transport. They can however start the game standing next to a transport that is allowed on the table (and not forced into reserves like a flier), as long as no other unit begins the game transported in their dedicated transport. Another unit can also be standing next to the first unit's dedicated transport, and in the movement phase the units get aboard the transport next to them, and it can then drive off.

The unit can also buy the dedicated transport just to get a special ability or weapon, or piece of wargear that it provides. Examples of this are the Ghost Arks boost to Necron Re-animation, or Rhinos with Dirge Casters.

Only Space Marines (at this stage) have special rules that allow the unit to split and get aboard a different transport as long as one of the now combat squaded units is aboard the dedicated transport.

To answer your question specifically, you can buy the Ghost Ark for your 20 man Necron squad. It can then roam off around the board supporting other squads and assisting in reanimation protocols, and when a squad get to 10 models of less, they can get aboard it at the beginning of their movement phase. The 20 man unit of Necrons is free to sit on an objective, or wander up as part of a moving gun line.

Hope this helped. I do not have time to get all the Rule book and FAQ references, or quotes, so if you need them I am sure others and myself (later on) can get them for you. In the meantime, check out the FAQs, and the rule book and see if you can make sense of it all yourself. Come back if you still have questions or can ot get your head around it all (as some of GWs rule books and codexes can be confusing the way they are written).