new WAVEdar

[Dave Mcturk]

is it just me ?
or is the new waveserpent just a bit ... "silly" ???

have run new WAVEdar a few times now; 6 Wavz and 3 Spinnerz,, [the spinnerz keep close quarters stuff off the Wavz]
... really annoying for opponents... but hardly 'fair' ...

is a FAQ coming or can we really run vry1 off the board with endless 60" ignore cover ?

[Defenestratus]

Yet more whining about wave serpents. Yes they're good. Yes they're better MBT's than transports, but you get close enough to them and they're just like any other AV10 Rear armor tank - toilet paper.

However I think the problem here isn't the serpent alone, but also the people you play against. My 2k escalation army that I've been using recently has 3 wave serpents that are actually used as transports (I hardly shoot the shield) - I don't see a need for more than that

[DarkLink]

As someone who normally plays Draigowing player, I welcome the cute attempt to try and spam str 6/7 weak AP shooting. Similar to Tau missile Broadsides, they may be stupidly underpriced, but they're pretty bad against me. Though I'm much better at glancing Wave Serpents to death than shooting down Broadsides.

[Dave Mcturk]

so in general.... apart from the obvious 'underpricing' ... [like a Wavez... is much cheaper than a falcon now and does the same job ... only better]...

no one is too bothered by the new rule ...and anyone moaning just has to deal !?

{but just to also point out that for a measly 5pts [45pts in the old codex]... i can now stick a tl britelance on my bs4 turret [x6] ... and spinners are st 8 against most vehicles }...

[eldargal]

I think people just aren't used to eldar having something that is really good.:rolleyes: It's far from OP, undercosted slightly yes but no more than various units across many other armies. I think it is far less damaging to the game in general than, say, the vendetta which makes every other flyer look bad.

[daboarder]

I think people just aren't used to eldar having something that is really good.:rolleyes: It's far from OP, undercosted slightly yes but no more than various units across many other armies. I think it is far less damaging to the game in general than, say, the vendetta which makes every other flyer look bad.

I doubt it eldargal, eldar were lack luster for basically just 5th Ed.

In 2nd, 3rd and the first half of 4th they were consistently one of the best armies, be it unkillable falcons, star cannon spam, ranger disruption table, or the exarchs of doom from 2nd.

[Dave Mcturk]

yes but as an eldar player ... 5th ed and our shoddy old bs3 codex... seemed to last an eternity...
...and some opponents havent yet twigged how good the new codex has made certain units !

im trying newWINGdar next week, three units of hawkz, bosshawk on his own, 3x spinners, gjb for objectives, and DEallies... hellions [troops] and the baron, and scourges, torn between farseer and autarch for final hq choice... [bikes or wings respectively]... ;-}

[Dragannia]

I agree, and I'm an eldar player. Wave Serpents are stupidly good. They outshadow a lot of other nice units, particularly the Falcon. That said, they're not broken, like certain flyer lists and such.

[Defenestratus]

Here are some good ways to kill wave serpents:

Sternguard with combi meltas in a drop pod - get to the rear armor and its AV10 with no shield available. (Even combi plas)
Dakkaboyz - those Str 7 guns don't care if its got a defensive shield or not.
Outflanking autocannon sentinels - again getting to rear armor is key.

Anything that is high strength but low shot count will fail against them. As always, Str 7 high volume fire will ruin its day.

[Archon Charybdis]

Anything that is high strength but low shot count will fail against them. As always, Str 7 high volume fire will ruin its day.

Exactly so, and it's not like this is anything new for Wave Serpents. They're more survivable now with Holo-fields and the virtual negation of penetrating hits, but your average serpent is 15-25pts more expensive than it used to be too. They're quite good, but hardly game redefining, besides maybe to allow Eldar to keep up the Mech game while everyone else on the internet has supposedly moved away from transports this edition.

[chicop76]

I found very mobile assaulty units can kill a serpent dead rather easy. Not really impressed yet. Faced them 5 times and it's more of an annoyance than anything. The problem I see is they really lcak bite like link said.

[Archon Charybdis]

I found very mobile assaulty units can kill a serpent dead rather easy. Not really impressed yet. Faced them 5 times and it's more of an annoyance than anything. The problem I see is they really lcak bite like link said.

I wouldn't say they lack bite--mine have been able to put out a lot of hurt against light-medium vehicles and light infantry-- but that involves firing the shield making you all the more vulnerable. I said in another thread, so many of the alarmist proclamations of Wave Serpent brokenness don't seem to take into consideration that the shield can't do both things at once.

[Defenestratus]

I wouldn't say they lack bite--mine have been able to put out a lot of hurt against light-medium vehicles and light infantry-- but that involves firing the shield making you all the more vulnerable. I said in another thread, so many of the alarmist proclamations of Wave Serpent brokenness don't seem to take into consideration that the shield can't do both things at once.

A nice trick to use the shield reliably as a shooter is to park your tank behind some ruins or other 4+ terrain. The HF's give you a +1 to your cover save so while you shoot your shield out and annoying units with low saves that rely on cover - the tank enjoys a 3+ cover save.

[Demonus]

A nice trick to use the shield reliably as a shooter is to park your tank behind some ruins or other 4+ terrain. The HF's give you a +1 to your cover save so while you shoot your shield out and annoying units with low saves that rely on cover - the tank enjoys a 3+ cover save.

Unless you are playing tau :)

You guys must roll lots better than i do with my serpent shields. I typically get 3-4 shots with mine, sometimes twin linked if I take the scatter laser, of course if I do, then i cant get that bright lance that everyone complains about.

I tried to take down a riptide with my WS "spam". Hearing so many great things about it. I fired 3 WS into a single riptide. weight of fire usually brings down 2+ saves right? LOL I did 1-2 wounds with about 32 hits. Same thing with broadsides, i might kill a pair of drones and a broadside before the returning missile fire wrecks me with glances. Just off the top of my head Id think Necrons would have a good chance to blow up the Wavedar. Anything that can assault them destroys them (jump marines)

/shrug. I think they are a decent option, and far from undercost at 145+pts each. I will reserve my *****ing for Tau and their 24 shot twin linked cover ignoring no line of sight needing missile shots. or IG tanks , cause i hate them =)

[Archon Charybdis]

I think weight of fire might be more aptly called weight of wounds. It works when you can throw 30+ shots at the target that are liable to wound it in a 4+ or better, like in the old codex a bunch of Doom/Guide Bladestorming dire avengers against termies. But when you've only got ~8 shots that are wounding on 3+ and 4+ against a 2+ armor save, it's just not gonna cut it. If taking flyers wasn't suicide against Tau, a Crimson Hunter wouldn't be a bad option, Fire Dragons are good, but even just a couple squads of Dire Avengers (particularly with Doom) can put out a lot of hurt.

[Defenestratus]

I think weight of fire might be more aptly called weight of wounds. It works when you can throw 30+ shots at the target that are liable to wound it in a 4+ or better, like in the old codex a bunch of Doom/Guide Bladestorming dire avengers against termies. But when you've only got ~8 shots that are wounding on 3+ and 4+ against a 2+ armor save, it's just not gonna cut it. If taking flyers wasn't suicide against Tau, a Crimson Hunter wouldn't be a bad option, Fire Dragons are good, but even just a couple squads of Dire Avengers (particularly with Doom) can put out a lot of hurt.

Outflanking warwalkers on a doomed riptide. Works like a charm.

Tau do jump shoot jump, but they REALLY don't like it when you do the same to them (unless they seeker spam)

[Pssyche]

A nice trick to use the shield reliably as a shooter is to park your tank behind some ruins or other 4+ terrain. The HF's give you a +1 to your cover save so while you shoot your shield out and annoying units with low saves that rely on cover - the tank enjoys a 3+ cover save.

Make sure you always move the Wave Serpent, no matter how small that movement may be.
A vehicle has to have moved in its previous turn to gain the Holofield Save.
Eldar Codex p.67.