Did Eldar Shadow Specres just get real?

[cebalrai]

Major FW update on them. Major buffs and 5 points cheaper.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/dkksiegelist.pdf


*Edit: Pretend for a moment like borderline-OP Warp Spiders aren't in their slot making ever FA unit in the dex look lesser.

[eldargal]

Yep, they are actually quite good now.

[cebalrai]

Yep, they are actually quite good now.

They all got lance, fear, battle focus, haywire grenades, 4+ cover saves just for moving (basically they're like jinking holofield vehicles), better AP, and that option to make enemies within 12" roll Ld tests on 3d6 take the 2 highest for a nice !psyker option. The Ghostlight thing is no longer attached to the Exarch but is a weapon power every model has. Not bad for the cost of 5 points cheaper.

The Exarch's Haywire launcher is two haywire shots that hit on a 2+. Just a +10 pt upgrade, not bad.

Weird thing of note: Autarchs can get shadow spectre jet packs and their holo-fields for a 4+ cover save, but what use is that when they already have 4++?

[Tyrendian]

i'm probably just incredibly dumb right now but.. that's the DKoK siege list... where exactly did you find Shadow Spectres???

[energongoodie]

Here you go :)

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/shadowspectres.pdf

[Tyrendian]

thansk a lot! wasn't listed in the Download section yet as far as i could see...


Weird thing of note: Autarchs can get shadow spectre jet packs and their holo-fields for a 4+ cover save, but what use is that when they already have 4++?

yeah, and the Warp Jump Generator gives Jetpack rules already... probably just another one of FWs deliberate errors that they incorporate every now and then to make us feel good for spotting them ;)

[energongoodie]

I like em! :D

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Nice to have the Autarch options as well.

[Tyrendian]

yup, not bad - shame they are in the same slot as Warp Spiders, but I'll give 'em a spin I think - if only because I own and love the models (like my Warp Hunter, ordered before they got shafted by an update...)

[lattd]

Autarch with mantle of the laughing god and shadow spectre jet packs would be amazing! smaller foot print than the jet bike option just as survivable and fast.

[Tyrendian]

sadly not... the Spectre Holo Field specifically states it doesn't stack with Stealth&Shrouded, which is kinda retarded but there you go...

[lattd]

You are quite right I forgot forgeworld sees eldar as the ginger headed step son. It would have been to easy to make them good.

[wayne williams]

I do love the models though.

[eldargal]

SS are pretty good now, though. The cover save is better in some ways because they get it all the time, not just when the enemy is 12" away or more, they are cheaper, faster and potentially less vulnerable to assaults. Very mobile anti-power armour and potential anti-armour unit.

[AirHorse]

I like them much better now for sure. I am a bit baffled/miffed by the "majority profile" bit in the new ghostlight rules though...makes the exarch having a prism blaster less exciting than it was before in a bigger squad :(.

[DarkLink]

Still short ranged and expensive and a 4+ cover is still just a 4+. Warp Spiders and bright lance War Walkers still are a better deal.

[eldargal]

Still short ranged and expensive and a 4+ cover is still just a 4+. Warp Spiders and bright lance War Walkers still are a better deal.
Oh I don't know, I think SS are quite flexible in a way the units you mention aren't. Warp Spiders can't touch AV13-14 while a small squad of SS w haywire exarch could strip 3HP off any vehicle each shooting phase. 2BS5 hay wire shots and a high S low AP ghostlight shot. Potentially a haywire grenade too if you are willing to get close enough.

[cebalrai]

Can't wait to see what they do with Corsairs. All their units need a bump. Corsairs are mostly just bad guardians, corsair jetbikes are just bad jetbikes, the Prince has weird warger issues, and the Void Dreamer is a complete mess. And all the Corsair vehicles are just overpriced Eldar vehicles now that BS4 is the codex standard. I just hope they aren't lazy and make them identical...

[desert_hack]

Oh I don't know, I think SS are quite flexible in a way the units you mention aren't. Warp Spiders can't touch AV13-14 while a small squad of SS w haywire exarch could strip 3HP off any vehicle each shooting phase. 2BS5 hay wire shots and a high S low AP ghostlight shot. Potentially a haywire grenade too if you are willing to get close enough.

I don't have my codex to hand, but wouldn't allied scourges be cheaper and more efficient in this role?

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Huh, they are pretty good now, very, very flexible. I mean, the only unit I can think of they can't hard-counter would be groups of 2+ armour saves.

[Dragannia]

I'll repeat what I said on the other thread.
They don't. You reduce the AP by 1 OR add Strength by 1. One or the other. They're horrible now, worse than before IMO.

Before they had the ability to stay reasonably long ranged. They've lost that now. AP4 blast is what they'll be used for, at 18". They lost the blast on the Ghostlight. On average, you're getting 4 hits, and they use MAJORITY, not the Prism Blaster, so they start at Strength 6 AP 3. You're getting, on average, Str 10 AP 3 lance shot, or Str 8 AP 1 Lance. An 18" Brightlance at AP 1 is not worth 200 points.

They're like...crappy Vespid now.

I didn't notice they had Haywire grenades, though, so that's a plus. Their best use would probably be the blast template - 6 of those hurt anyone.

[DarkLink]

Oh I don't know, I think SS are quite flexible in a way the units you mention aren't. Warp Spiders can't touch AV13-14 while a small squad of SS w haywire exarch could strip 3HP off any vehicle each shooting phase. 2BS5 hay wire shots and a high S low AP ghostlight shot. Potentially a haywire grenade too if you are willing to get close enough.

What I mean is that there's nothing that SS bring that a combo of Warp Spiders or War Walkers with Bright Lances don't do better, and while those two units are a bigger investment you get much more bang for your proverbial buck. SS aren't bad, and they have cool enough models to justify playing them just because, but they're outshadowed by other options. There might not be one single unit that does everything they do, but the overlap between several other units covers their roles much more efficiently than SS themselves do.

It's half a matter of range and half a matter of cost versus firepower. With such a short range, the only way you'll get much use out of them is by jumping in and out from behind cover, but you're still paying a lot of points for a very small number of shots. And for 30pts each they are neither nearly durable enough with a 4+ save, cover or not, for the relatively limited firepower they bring.

[eldargal]

Yeah, and as Dragannia has pointed out the ghostlight option is rubbish now, so they are back in the 'too **** to field' category of FW eldar.

[Mr Mystery]

It's not all that bad.

Base squad can either bum a light vehicle, or threaten a heavier one.

Given how quick they are, and how easily hidden, they're not massively overpowered by it. When they stacked both, it just got silly.

Shadow of Death alone is pretty damned pokey. Timed right, you can ruin a battle line with that puppy.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I think their zone of Leadership-****ery is definitely the best thing they do now. Their guns are... interesting, but not screaming for a FW order.

[DarkLink]

It's not all that bad.

Base squad can either bum a light vehicle, or threaten a heavier one.


For how expensive they are and for how fragile they are, and for how many better options Eldar have that are much better at both roles, yes, it kinda is.

[Tynskel]

I think their zone of Leadership-****ery is definitely the best thing they do now. Their guns are... interesting, but not screaming for a FW order.

You don't buy forgeworld for their rules...

[AlaitocJib]

The only way I could see myself using them now is deep striking the back lines around clustered units trying to force shadow of deaths hand(risky I know). And at the same time flying a Hemlock in and using terrify in conjunction with the mindshock pod. Now forgive me because I've been out of the game for some time and I'm bringing myself up to speed. But if the Hemlock were to use terrify on one unit could it shoot another with the heavy D-Scythes or is it required to shoot the same unit it terrified? Also for giggles, could the wraithseer be thrown in for his mind tricks? I thought he has a fear effect to some degree or did that get nerfed with recent updates?

[Defenestratus]

The only way I could see myself using them now is deep striking the back lines around clustered units trying to force shadow of deaths hand(risky I know). And at the same time flying a Hemlock in and using terrify in conjunction with the mindshock pod. Now forgive me because I've been out of the game for some time and I'm bringing myself up to speed. But if the Hemlock were to use terrify on one unit could it shoot another with the heavy D-Scythes or is it required to shoot the same unit it terrified? Also for giggles, could the wraithseer be thrown in for his mind tricks? I thought he has a fear effect to some degree or did that get nerfed with recent updates?

The hemlock would have to shoot the same squad that he cast terrify on - which isn't a bad thing IMO as hitting pretty any kind of leadership-vulnerable squad with two Str 4 AP2 blasts is going to be taking a morale check. Throw in the spectres and you have a very good chance of making some run that wouldn't otherwise.

Also ... throw in Asurmen to the spectres (or be within 12" of him) and all of a sudden Soulrazor gets *scary*.

[Poseidal]

You don't buy forgeworld for their rules...

With a few exceptions (Lynx), their Eldar stuff isn't really impressive. Either it's just a minor mod on an existing chassis (Falcon Variants, Wraithseer), or it was already designed for them by GW and they just scaled it up (Superheavy tanks, Phoenix and Nightwing; they even managed to botch both Titans IMO; the proportions don't look right and the giant guardian head is silly); They don't have the care Jes and the others in the GW team seem to put in. Shadow Spectres are ok, but they're not even as good looking as the Aspect Warriors from 1991.

They even discontinued their Wave Serpent (based on the EPIC one) which was the only one I regarded as strictly superior to the GW one.

So with that in mind, what reason does an Eldar player have to get the unique FW units?

[Defenestratus]

So with that in mind, what reason does an Eldar player have to get the unique FW units?

Because you're apparently the only one in the world that considers the GW models better than the FW variants.

The Shadowspectres are amazing models, likewise for the entire Eldar FW line. They're simply awesome.

The only model in the line that I'm not thrilled with is the Phantom's face - if it was the spartan helmet that the Rev got it would be awesome. The Corsairs I could give or take also.

The nightwing and phoenix are heads and tails above and beyond better models (and rules-wise for that matter) than the silly Droopywing kit that we got.

[AlaitocJib]

Because you're apparently the only one in the world that considers the GW models better than the FW variants.

The Shadowspectres are amazing models, likewise for the entire Eldar FW line. They're simply awesome.

The only model in the line that I'm not thrilled with is the Phantom's face - if it was the spartan helmet that the Rev got it would be awesome. The Corsairs I could give or take also.

The nightwing and phoenix are heads and tails above and beyond better models (and rules-wise for that matter) than the silly Droopywing kit that we got.


What do you think of this Nightwing conversion kitbash I'm doing then Def.? 4533

[Pssyche]

What do you think of this Nightwing conversion kitbash I'm doing then Def.? 4533


I appreciate what you've done thus far and it is far better than any others that I've seen previously.

But, if you're prepared to shell out for a Falcon and a Crimson Hunter, why not just get an original Nightwing?
It'd have run to roughly the same cost as the kits that you are converting from.


Whilst we're talking about Eldar conversions, and not wishing to de-rail the thread, you could do worse than check out this conversion that I came across in the Webway.
I think it's incredible!

http://eldar.arhicks.co.uk/miniatures/eldar/craftworld/pegasus_1.php

[AlaitocJib]

I appreciate what you've done thus far and it is far better than any others that I've seen previously.

But, if you're prepared to shell out for a Falcon and a Crimson Hunter, why not just get an original Nightwing?
It'd have run to roughly the same cost as the kits that you are converting from.


Whilst we're talking about Eldar conversions, and not wishing to de-rail the thread, you could do worse than check out this conversion that I came across in the Webway.
I think it's incredible!

http://eldar.arhicks.co.uk/miniatures/eldar/craftworld/pegasus_1.php

Oh I have plenty of Falcons and One CH and a Hemlock. I just wanted something a little edgier. The extra pieces were leftover from the kits and anything I didnt have I picked up cheap on ebay. The main body is actually a dark eldar razorwing I had picked up incredibly cheap as well. Nothing went to waste. :) And while I like the Nightwing, I wanted something a little more condensed but to still look extremely fast. Thats what I came up with.

As for the pegasus, I've watched that guy for a few years now. Partly where the inspiration do these custom builds I have came from. Great guy I think.

[agosyb]

They look good for a deep-striking option. 18" range is in the sweet spot for "not too risky and still in range" imo. Give the exarch a haywire blaster and ghostlight the squadmembers' shots for a high str lance for 3 easy hullpoints. That will run you under 150 points for a decent chance at a vehicle kill. The other str and AP options are cool, I fell like they can see a lot of use. All I know is that they do haywire and anti-infantry jobs a bit like scourges for some leaner points.

[deaddice]

Is it me or do they cause fear as well now seems kinda silly on a non cc unit, also I am curious to see what they do with the ss phoenix lord.