Codex: Space Marine rumours

[eldargal]

Up for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.

- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.

- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).

- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.

- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.

- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.

- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.

- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.

- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.
Best_pone has been spot on with all his rumours to date.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

New plastic tacticals AND plastic veterans would make me one hell of a happy Captain.

Do we think that the new armour will be a Techmarine thing? I'd love it if it were.

Any word on the author as yet?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeee.

The Fire Angels are getting reinforcements. xD

As for a Codex cover, which would I go with...?
Raven Guard I expect. Maybe.

[energongoodie]

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

http://www.reocities.com/Area51/Starship/2722/xlick.jpg

IRON HANDS...ASSEMBLE!

[daboarder]

So we're back to 5th? With chaos and dark angels being overall bland an boring and everything after being largely made of imagination run riot....

I mean the bloody technophobes are consatly getting funky new weaponry and chaos still cant figure out how to design anything for termies that isnt a flamethrower or a small cannon.....despite all the background giving them a plethora of unique gear

[Dimitrios]

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

IRON HANDS...ASSEMBLE!

Me and you are going to have an Iron-hands-gasm...!!! Could it be that we get to ACTUALLY use our Iron Hands as Iron Hands??? :S :O

[eldargal]

I expect it will look something like this:

Plastic Tactical box
Sternguard/Vanguard box
AA tank box dual build box
New plastic armour mark box
Plastic characters

So four plastic boxes and some characters, not as large an influx of plastic as it first appears. Also to be frank a new plastic tactical squad is welcome, the last box I bought for my FSMs had some significant mouldlines and has really been eclipsed by later releases.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I expect it will look something like this:

Plastic Tactical box
Sternguard/Vanguard box
AA tank box dual build box
New plastic armour mark box
Plastic characters

So four plastic boxes and some characters, not as large an influx of plastic as it first appears. Also to be frank a new plastic tactical squad is welcome, the last box I bought for my FSMs had some significant mouldlines and has really been eclipsed by later releases.

Well, if they were going to update any old plastic troops boxset - it was always going to be tactical marines. It sort of makes sense, considering the poor quality with mould-lines and I expect they'll want to provide all the options too (possibly to stop 3rd parties?). I assume the Stern/vanguard is a duel kit as well. Hope the tanks are something new rather than just another rhino/land-raider variant (those bore me personally).

[Mr Mystery]

Tactical Squad has been around for 15 years, so I'd say its due a rework.

But as ever, I'll believe it when I see it.

[eldargal]

Best_pone has been accurate with everything he has posted so far so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Obviously always need to take it all as speculative until GW announce it or photos are leaked.

Tactical marines were the first of the then new generation of multi-part plastics, not surprising they get a revamp even leaving aside how popular Marines are.

[Wildeybeast]

So if there are substantial sections for the Legions with their own rules, do we think that would put the kibosh on supplements for them all?

[Mr Mystery]

Just applying my usual cynicism!

[Kirsten]

So if there are substantial sections for the Legions with their own rules, do we think that would put the kibosh on supplements for them all?

I wouldn't think so, we don't know how much is 'substantial' even if they had ten pages each, the supplements are 50+ pages of background, so still plenty to expand on. the iyanden book wasn't rules heavy, so having chapter tactics in the main codex need not affect a supplement.

[Wildeybeast]

It would just seem a bit redundant to my mind, unless they are planning to introduce new units. We shall have to wait and see. However, a Ravenguard cover may prompt me to buy my first LE Codex, unless it's just a lame legion symbol cover. Which it probably will be.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It would just seem a bit redundant to my mind, unless they are planning to introduce new units. We shall have to wait and see. However, a Ravenguard cover may prompt me to buy my first LE Codex, unless it's just a lame legion symbol cover. Which it probably will be.

Let us hope not, Shadow-Brother...

[SaveModifier]

So we're back to 5th? With chaos and dark angels being overall bland an boring and everything after being largely made of imagination run riot....

I mean the bloody technophobes are consatly getting funky new weaponry and chaos still cant figure out how to design anything for termies that isnt a flamethrower or a small cannon.....despite all the background giving them a plethora of unique gear


They don't have the support systems in place, or the technological knowledge to produce mass quatities of new and innovitive weapons. And bland? CSM got a daemon-robot dragon thing, their previously Spiky Space Marine dreads with silly rules turned into mutated mega beasts, ally rules means you can have real deamon support in your army rather than a generic daemon entry. Bland? I do not think it means what you think it means.

And the DA have always been bland, since RT days.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Dark Angels got a whole load of cool stuff.

[SaveModifier]

Dark Angels got a whole load of cool stuff.

Nah, they only got 2 new unique flyers, 2 unique fast attack vehicles, a new terminator type squad and a new bike squad, all with really nice plastic kits. Thats so bland and boring.

[Lexington]

Weird, interesting, and has the ring of truth even when one doesn't take the poster's record into account. September's gonna be surprising.

[Psyfer]

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.


They really are running out of ideas about what to give the Space Marines, aren't they?

Then again, the recent run of Codexes could have me saying that about all the GW factions I guess.

[caseymoose1]

I find it funny that people are terribly upset about new units for such a saturated army already... What would you propose as a good idea? I for one would love to see some uber terminators and a large walker. Granted they may not fall into the fluff as much but if YOU DONT LIKE THEM, DONT BUY THEM!

[SotonShades]

There is no way I am going to get my Space Marines repainted in time for this is there? Still, mix some new tactical marines in with what I have (all shapes and sizes since the 3rd Ed Box game) would be a great way to fill out my full battle company. Count me in :)

[CraigB]

I expect it will look something like this:

Plastic Tactical box
Sternguard/Vanguard box
AA tank box dual build box
New plastic armour mark box
Plastic characters

So four plastic boxes and some characters, not as large an influx of plastic as it first appears. Also to be frank a new plastic tactical squad is welcome, the last box I bought for my FSMs had some significant mouldlines and has really been eclipsed by later releases.

The cynical part of me says that there will be a new Tactical Squad and it will follow what happened with the Dire Avengers and drop from 10 to 5 miniatures but contain "more options"

[Tyrendian]

The cynical part of me says that there will be a new Tactical Squad and it will follow what happened with the Dire Avengers and drop from 10 to 5 miniatures but contain "more options"

unlikely I'd say, but then it's GW we're talking about... so you never know...

[eldargal]

I find it funny that people are terribly upset about new units for such a saturated army already... What would you propose as a good idea? I for one would love to see some uber terminators and a large walker. Granted they may not fall into the fluff as much but if YOU DONT LIKE THEM, DONT BUY THEM!
Right. The choice is stagnation or change and I'll take change thank you very much. Had enough stagnation with Eldar ('til recently). A power armour exosuit is far more interesting than Land Raider variant no. 45 or Rhino variant no. 65 which we get from Forge World.

[Nabterayl]

But No. 45 is the good one!

[Tynskel]

hahahah!

[DavidDraper]

Grav weapon- is this going to be a tool to kill MC? This is something the marines could use, as there are currently two options for them to do it here- TT/SS termies or vanguard squad with their special ammo.

We've also heard a bunch about a big walker, which seems to fit the releases for everything else we've seen recently- everyone except the DAs and Necrons last year have a MC/walker choice.

And the medic rhino (if that happens) will add some survivability to the troops, ala the necron ghost arc.

I'm looking forward to the release. What I would *really* like to see are combi weapons or power swords for sgts in the new box. I also wouldn't mind seeing heavy weapons/special weapons in 5 man teams, but we'll see.

D

[Bigred]

Note: The Space Marine "Hunter" vehicle is originally from EPIC - just saying...

4476

[Tyrendian]

Note: The Space Marine "Hunter" vehicle is originally from EPIC - just saying...

4476

that's a Scorpius in modern terms if my eyes don't deceive me... so that's already here

[eldargal]

Nope (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hunter).

[Tyrendian]

Nope (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hunter).

okay I stand corrected... but it does look eerily similar...

[Austin Buelt]

Emperor of Man, why does this have to come right after I'm moving? Going to be poorer than an under hive juvie until after Xmas...

[Pedro Benitez]

I find it funny that people are terribly upset about new units for such a saturated army already... What would you propose as a good idea? I for one would love to see some uber terminators and a large walker. Granted they may not fall into the fluff as much but if YOU DONT LIKE THEM, DONT BUY THEM!

I agree with you would love to see the above (as long as the walker doesn't look like the Grey Knight one - marine exposed on the chest is insane) and you let your money do the voting!

[sir mongo]

Do we have any ideal who will be on the covers?

[King Damo]

Plastic Vanguard models sounds great, after a while looking at the 30-odd Assualt Maries I have, the poses start to look same-y despite my best efforts.

Not sure how I feel about the Ltd. Ed. covers though, the idea has potential, I have a feeling the art may recycled for both the Ltd. cover and supplement books... unless its chapter logos... and thats really just gonna annoy me.

Who am I kidding? I'll probably buy the Raven Guard one anyways!

[MajorWesJanson]

Plastic Vanguard models sounds great, after a while looking at the 30-odd Assualt Maries I have, the poses start to look same-y despite my best efforts.

Not sure how I feel about the Ltd. Ed. covers though, the idea has potential, I have a feeling the art may recycled for both the Ltd. cover and supplement books... unless its chapter logos... and thats really just gonna annoy me.

Who am I kidding? I'll probably buy the Raven Guard one anyways!

I'm hoping the Vanguard Vets have the single engine jump packs like sang guard.

[Clockwork]

I'm hoping the Vanguard Vets have the single engine jump packs like sang guard.

You mean the MkIV style (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/MK_IV_SPACE_MARINE_ASSAULT_SQUAD.html) then?

[MajorWesJanson]

You mean the MkIV style (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/MK_IV_SPACE_MARINE_ASSAULT_SQUAD.html) then?

Yes.

[Clockwork]

Yes.

Honestly with FW already having tackled that, and Jes Goodwin saying they don't like just rehashing FW, I'm going out on a limb and saying it's not likely.

[nathaneal246]

cant wait to redo my BT army list! having them allied with my IG army is going to be ridiculous!

[Ben Owen]

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.


Ya know, I saw this, and this was my first thought: http://qkme.me/3vdyau

Seriously? Exo-armour for exo-armour? What possible tactical purpose does that serve?

[Ben Owen]

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.


Ya know, I saw this, and this was my first thought: http://qkme.me/3vdyau

Seriously? Exo-armour for exo-armour? What possible tactical purpose does that serve?

[Poseidal]

Six covers for original chapters? I know what this means, but it would be cool if three of these were actually Crimson Fists, Rainbow Warriors and Silver Skulls.

[mcsnead17]

you mean a graviton gun is it not a little over kill for the space marines.

[Daemonette666]

I know many will think this just a whinge, but here goes.

Well that about ends the runs of Balanced armies, especially for C:CSM. They really only had 2 units which helped them keep balanced with the other codexes being released, and the old codexes - the Helldrake and Obliterators. CSM lost a lot of things like assault weapons being replaced by salvo weapons for Noise Marines, many of the special unit types losing their universal special rules like tank hunter, infiltrate, and with fliers being introduced they only get one dedicated non flyer based anti-air unit, and they are expensive to upgrade.

I thought the Dark Angels were going to set the trend for most of the Space Marine type codexes, but it looks like graviton guns, specialist anti-air vehicles, an obliterator/mutilator type model are really going to tip the balance in the Space Marines favour, and make them an unbalanced army.

I had expected them to release a few things for the Chaos forces, like a Dreadclaw type assault pod, some better Anti-air units, and a decent flying transport like the storm raven that could be used. Maybe even some nice infiltrating units. C: CSM does not have enough long range heavy weapons to sit and duke it out with armies like the Space Marines, Tau, Eldar or Imperial Guard.

It is getting so that you have to take a Large IG army with a few CSM allies to fill in the gaps. Gone are the days where I could field a pure CSM army dedicated to just one power, and expect to have a fair chance of either just losing or just winning - a balanced army.

My Sisters of Battle army will never be fielded against the new SM codexes, and I will have to field my C: Daemons with IG Allies to bring in some heavy artillery or anti-air units.

Tyranid players, already on the lower end of the playing field, will be side lined as Tyranid players realise that every SM army has enough Graviton guns in it to bring down their largest MC. Eldar and Tau will lose the advantage of their new MC as well, especially the Eldar with T8 MC, they will be wounded on 3's not 5's or 6's.

I for one hope the CSM codex gets a few things to even up the score and reduce the sudden over power the SM are rumoured to be getting. I can envisage that I will be fielding mainly cultists with fearless HQs that have good Invul saves, and lots of close combat weapons. I will not field fliers, Obliterators, terminators, Landraiders, or any other vehicle that can be exposed to enemy lascannon and conversion beamer weapons fire.

I hate loyalist SMs. Why are my precious CSM forces again being relegated to the you are useless pile?

I for one hope the rumours of the Graviton gun and the option of 2 dedicated AA tanks is false. One is ok, but 2 is OP, and making all the enemy infantry units that rely on armour to hold out against the firepower of their enemies is gong to make those armies unpopular. Maybe C: CSM should have been released after the SM Vanilla codex was released? We could have gotten a few more goodies to sweeten the pot.

OK my Whinge is done, let the insults and degrading of what I think are valid comments begin.

[Ravingbantha]

I agree, as much as I hate to say it, but I think GW needs to start each new round of Codicies with the Core books. Start off with a new space Marine Codex and use that as the launch point for other chapters and for CSM. Personally I think a Chaos Codex should be more like a 'add this special rule to your (insert army) list'. That way we could see various other armies that have fallen to chaos other then Space Marines and the Guard.

[daboarder]

I know many will think this just a whinge, but here goes.

Well that about ends the runs of Balanced armies, especially for C:CSM. They really only had 2 units which helped them keep balanced with the other codexes being released, and the old codexes - the Helldrake and Obliterators. CSM lost a lot of things like assault weapons being replaced by salvo weapons for Noise Marines, many of the special unit types losing their universal special rules like tank hunter, infiltrate, and with fliers being introduced they only get one dedicated non flyer based anti-air unit, and they are expensive to upgrade.

I thought the Dark Angels were going to set the trend for most of the Space Marine type codexes, but it looks like graviton guns, specialist anti-air vehicles, an obliterator/mutilator type model are really going to tip the balance in the Space Marines favour, and make them an unbalanced army.

I had expected them to release a few things for the Chaos forces, like a Dreadclaw type assault pod, some better Anti-air units, and a decent flying transport like the storm raven that could be used. Maybe even some nice infiltrating units. C: CSM does not have enough long range heavy weapons to sit and duke it out with armies like the Space Marines, Tau, Eldar or Imperial Guard.

It is getting so that you have to take a Large IG army with a few CSM allies to fill in the gaps. Gone are the days where I could field a pure CSM army dedicated to just one power, and expect to have a fair chance of either just losing or just winning - a balanced army.

My Sisters of Battle army will never be fielded against the new SM codexes, and I will have to field my C: Daemons with IG Allies to bring in some heavy artillery or anti-air units.

Tyranid players, already on the lower end of the playing field, will be side lined as Tyranid players realise that every SM army has enough Graviton guns in it to bring down their largest MC. Eldar and Tau will lose the advantage of their new MC as well, especially the Eldar with T8 MC, they will be wounded on 3's not 5's or 6's.

I for one hope the CSM codex gets a few things to even up the score and reduce the sudden over power the SM are rumoured to be getting. I can envisage that I will be fielding mainly cultists with fearless HQs that have good Invul saves, and lots of close combat weapons. I will not field fliers, Obliterators, terminators, Landraiders, or any other vehicle that can be exposed to enemy lascannon and conversion beamer weapons fire.

I hate loyalist SMs. Why are my precious CSM forces again being relegated to the you are useless pile?

I for one hope the rumours of the Graviton gun and the option of 2 dedicated AA tanks is false. One is ok, but 2 is OP, and making all the enemy infantry units that rely on armour to hold out against the firepower of their enemies is gong to make those armies unpopular. Maybe C: CSM should have been released after the SM Vanilla codex was released? We could have gotten a few more goodies to sweeten the pot.

OK my Whinge is done, let the insults and degrading of what I think are valid comments begin.

I thought this last night. Not really worried about power of the new codex. But I have to wonder....why the hell did the designers feel that SM's needed to steal ANOTHER unit from a different codex. Watch these muti/oblits NOT have slow and purposeful. ..or be T5 base...sigh

And I thought I WASNT going to be pissed a out new releases anymore, but damn me if its not the principle of the thing.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

How to put this delicately...

One, you're moaning about a codex and miniatures which haven't even been released yet.

Two, whatever it is, it's not going to be a sodding Obliterator.

[daboarder]

I wont bother being delicate

1 that old argumemt is stupid. Stick it back in retirement its just too cliche to not look rediculous.

2 a big terminator with combat and shooty options....that sounds like the same thing a muti/oblits to me
....

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

2 a big terminator with combat and shooty options....that sounds like the same thing a muti/oblits to me
....Eh, as long as they don't have a selection of 6 heavy weapons they can choose between, they won't be that similar. The big thing with Oblits is their fantastic tactical flexibility.

[daboarder]

True!

Still its looking like this muti equivalent might rip on ours.

Ill wait and see the full rules before going full rant... but im not optimistic

[Clockwork]

I wont bother being delicate

1 that old argumemt is stupid. Stick it back in retirement its just too cliche to not look rediculous.

Old doesn't make it less true. Complaining about stuff you haven't even seen yet is old hat and frankly it's pathetic. At least wait to see what we really get before throwing tantrums so you can get your facts right.


2 a big terminator with combat and shooty options....that sounds like the same thing a muti/oblits to me
....

Perhaps, perhaps not. Wait and see and then we'll know. It already sounds like this is a Marine in a kind of exoskeleton that's bigger than a Terminator so I'm not counting on it being too much like the Obliterators/Mutilators. Without pictures it's really hard to properly judge things fully.

[DWest]

Actually, the Turbonator sounds more like a Broadside imo, especially with Broadsides being 50 USD / model, 60mm base, 1-3 per FOC.

[ozybonza]

The whining about SM getting new options and becoming OP is a bit silly without knowing points costs.

It reminds me of pre DA and CSM rumours:

"DA get flak missles? OMG DA are teh_winzors"!!!

"Warptalons have lightning claws as STANDARD!?!?!?!? WTF GW is broken I quit, time for warmachine!"

[daboarder]

Quote the hyperbole mate.... if you can !

Or you know, dont use it as it makes you look immature?

[Clockwork]

Quote the hyperbole mate.... if you can !

Or you know, dont use it as it makes you look immature?

You mean like posts that spout the evils of the Space Marines getting toys DA don't have, rules that CSM don't have, or even just getting updated before books that are from 4th edition or don't have a codex in print make the poster look like a self-entitled whiner who can't wait to see the actual toys and their rules before lodging a well reasoned and supported statement about what they don't like about the new codex instead of flying off the handle every new rumor?

Yeah I could see that.

In other news, someone has dug up some old dev studio sketches from 2004. These might be the source of the design for the "super-terminator": http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1401977#post1401977

I'm curious to see what the final product looks like, but that might be a good glimpse to where the designs started from.

[daboarder]

Because first impression's and initial reaction's are the spawn of satan?

When did we make that rule?

[Spamthulhu]

I agree, as much as I hate to say it, but I think GW needs to start each new round of Codicies with the Core books. Start off with a new space Marine Codex and use that as the launch point for other chapters and for CSM. Personally I think a Chaos Codex should be more like a 'add this special rule to your (insert army) list'. That way we could see various other armies that have fallen to chaos other then Space Marines and the Guard.

Sorry, I am tired of the Space Marine codex being the first codex in each edition. It always ended up under developed for the environment that it was played in. The last codex was a solid one and yet you still don't see the army winning major tournaments. I actually love space marines overall for the lore and excitement of the background but its been the starter army of the game with no complexity and strength.

I want to see a well built, seriously competitive codex that puts space marines on the final table's in big tourneys for once. Its about time the marines are more than just a starter army for newbs.

[Ravingbantha]

Sorry, I am tired of the Space Marine codex being the first codex in each edition. It always ended up under developed for the environment that it was played in. The last codex was a solid one and yet you still don't see the army winning major tournaments. I actually love space marines overall for the lore and excitement of the background but its been the starter army of the game with no complexity and strength.

I want to see a well built, seriously competitive codex that puts space marines on the final table's in big tourneys for once. Its about time the marines are more than just a starter army for newbs.

I too am tired of seeing nothing but Space Marine this and Space Marine that, but the problem comes as this. as it is You have the CSM book and the DA book already out. Now both of those armies are supposed to have access to much older technology. Now the new Space Marine codex comes out, and there is going to be all sorts of new units, rules, and such. Non of which we will see Cahos of Dark Angles having access to, unless they put some side note in there. I'm not saying put Space Marines out first, but it should come out, before sub-set Codicies come out. Put it out first, then other Codecies for BA, DA, SW, BT, CSM, Sal, what ever. Let each of the other codicies play off of the Primary.

[eldargal]

I think some of the concerns are warranted, actually, as an eldar player we have few tough units that can stand up to Space Marine shooting and now they possibly (we don't know for sure how they work or how much they will cost or how widespread they will be) have a weapon that neutralises that small advantage as well as excellent shooting and CC units.

Having said that, in general the 6th edition (and 8th ed WFB) books have all been very well balanced against each other even if far from perfect in terms of internal balance in some cases. So I think worrying too much is a bit premature.

[Siyanis]

I don't buy the rumor of new tactical boxes. We've had a busy year of releases and even though the Tau troops minis are a bit weak, GW did not update them. Necrons still have goofy see-thru plastic tubes and despite no longer fitting cleanly with the theme of the army, new Necron Warriors were not released. Eldar Guardians? Old box. New Chaos Space Marines squad? No. Not at all. Wild crazy flying dragons and silly claw-monsters, and even the Stay-puft Marshmallow Wagon, but you'll have to make due with Troops minis from last decade.

In short, plenty of precedent for 2013 -not- being 'Year of Updated Troops minis'. "We didn't even get no Kroot!" he said like a hillbilly. Gosh I was lookin' forward to new Kroot. Heck, I was really excited to see some updated Guardians and elves make me furious.

New AA Tank? I'd put a fiver on that being absolutely true, with two options for construction.

Double-Stuft Power Armor with harness-launchers just tastes silly to me, but that's such a common rumor.

I keep trying to imagine what a 'cross between a Contemptor and a Goodwynought but bigger' might look like and all I see is darkness. Seeing the Choo Choo of Skullllllls has made me feel like, as dark as this vision is, I should prepare the wallet regardless.

I wonder if anybody feels that GW is going to put five 1st Company quality jump-packs in the same box with a full assortment of Sternguard kit. Would there be jumpy-legs and stern-standy-legs in there? I always thought of the legs as the 'throttle' piece, the part of the kit that is provided without extras so if you need more legs, you'll need to buy more marines. Chests, backpacks, shoulders, heads and bolters fill my bitsracks, but legs are always used up.

I suppose I wanted to put this observation into the record so I can be -publicly- wrong: July 2013 White Dwarf has a masterful tussle between TWO (2!) chapters of space marines on one side and chaos with necron-spice on the other. The Chaos Space Marines and Necrons brought their new toys but the excitement was seeing those two Warhounds. That's old ForgeWorld goodies and obvious additions considering those titans were prominently featured in the rulebook. I was amazed that there were -no- Thunderhawks on the forces of Order's side and you -know- these vets have Thunderhawks to bring to the table, certainly Matt Hutson's Blood Angels so with the 'bring it all!' attitude, why were they absent? Also, the FW Thunderhawk section seems lean.

Did they leave the Thunderhawks out of the skies of that apocalypse battle because the oft-alluded but always-denied PLASTIC THUNDERHAWK is on it's way for $250 US? I know some Grey Knights/Blood Angels/Dark Angels/etc/etc/etc/CSM who would very much enjoy a Plastihawk, and there sure is a wealth of wallet-votes encouraging more really big expensive kits.

Also, Page 24, 2nd Edition Wargear Codex: Graviton Gun. If this is being re-introduced I would expect it to appear in the hands of the Sternguard 1st Company. My whole-wheat side says the rules for this weapon are being re-introduced for players with lots of ForgeWorld goodies in their chapters (I would love to use mine). If my whole-wheat side is correct, my sugar-frosted side says 'Maybe we'll get rules for boarding shields too!'

We all read our Tarot our own way, right? That's what my cards say.

[eldargal]

The tactical box was released in 1998, none of the other plastic kits are that old. I think the plastic Guardian set was released in 2006 in comparison. Also best_pone has a 100% accuracy rating so far, and while that doesn't guarantee he is right there is no reason to assume he isn't.

Also no one is claiming that there is a 'year of the updated troop mini', the fact it hasn't happened yet is no guarantor that it will not happen especially when the rumoured update in question is of the earliest plastic troop box.

Also, you might want to scale back your use of hyperbolic nicknames for units, they make you sound like a complete arse.

[Siyanis]

I'm not worried about sounding like a complete arse, just skip over my two total posts if reading them makes you feel bad. :(

I understand completely that nobody has suggested this is a year dedicated to troops releases, my posit is that outside of some HQ troop extending options this has been 'The Year of Zero Troops Kits' and I'd be happy to be wrong. I just don't feel it. Maybe the 'Tactical' kit -is- the Sternguard kit. And I don't feel the sternguard/vanguard in the same box thing either, that's really in reference to a subsequent reply by another forumer. So once every three years or so I pipe up with my thoughts, and Space Marines mean a lot to me. To be frank, the 'Lord of Skulls' has single-handedly (heh, it only has one hand!) undermined my faith in what's around the corner for the Emperor's Finest. No doubt, this was Chaos' intent all along.

Anyhoo, happy to be wrong, always but this is a discussion thread, right? Room here even for hyperbolic exuberance and speculation, even about best_pone's data.

[RGilbert26]

The cynical part of me says that there will be a new Tactical Squad and it will follow what happened with the Dire Avengers and drop from 10 to 5 miniatures but contain "more options"

This won't happen - the reason for Dire Avengers becoming five is due to all of the other Aspects being '5', if Dire Avengers were new then they would have arrived as 5.

[Bionic Boy]

....I was amazed that there were -no- Thunderhawks on the forces of Order's side and you -know- these vets have Thunderhawks to bring to the table, certainly Matt Hutson's Blood Angels so with the 'bring it all!' attitude, why were they absent? Also, the FW Thunderhawk section seems lean.

Did they leave the Thunderhawks out of the skies of that apocalypse battle because the oft-alluded but always-denied PLASTIC THUNDERHAWK is on it's way for $250 US? I know some Grey Knights/Blood Angels/Dark Angels/etc/etc/etc/CSM who would very much enjoy a Plastihawk, and there sure is a wealth of wallet-votes encouraging more really big expensive kits....

We all read our Tarot our own way, right? That's what my cards say.

Reading this, reminded my of a quote from Legend of the Seeker: "To see what is not there, you must see the things that are."
Siyanis, please keep reading your Tarot, it made my day:D

[RGilbert26]

The reason for a lack of flyers in Apoc is due to the fact that they are in the next Warzone supplement which came with the collector's edition.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

One of the other reasons for the low number of superheavies on the Imperial side of that battle report was the ridiculous number of Macro Cannon and Vortex Missile Batteries they had. It's a battle report, they're trying to sell you on the new products; we know what a Thunderhawk does, but they needed to demonstrate what the Macro Cannons are about.

[eldargal]

Yep. You'd be better off looking in a pigeons entrails for tips on GW releases than what they include in their battle reports. They want to show off new goodies, not hint and what is to come.

[Siyanis]

One of the other reasons for the low number of superheavies on the Imperial side of that battle report was the ridiculous number of Macro Cannon and Vortex Missile Batteries they had. It's a battle report, they're trying to sell you on the new products; we know what a Thunderhawk does, but they needed to demonstrate what the Macro Cannons are about.

Yes, that's much more accurate. It's easy to forget, sometimes, that the terrain -was- the Apocalypse class Imperial contribution.

Well, here's hoping that best_pown is comprehensively accurate once again. If so, my 1st Company is about to get a whole lot fluffier.

[YorkNecromancer]

Seriously? Exo-armour for exo-armour? What possible tactical purpose does that serve?

The same as painting your armour bright blue, having more gold bling Will.I.Am in that stupid "Scream and Shout" video, and carrying that well known weapon used by all modern militaries - the sword? :rolleyes:

I don't know if you know this, but 40K is pretty unrealistic... :)

[Ravingbantha]

This won't happen - the reason for Dire Avengers becoming five is due to all of the other Aspects being '5', if Dire Avengers were new then they would have arrived as 5.

all other aspects are not 5, they are 6. 5 plus exarch, which is really friggen anoying.

[Tyrendian]

5 plus exarch is not so bad... Warp Spiders are 4 plus Exarch, and that's what really sucks... but we digress...

[Ravingbantha]

either way sucks, you eaith buy two boxes for 82 friggen dollars and not have enough or have a few left overs. I hope plastic Aspects are inbound soon.

[flekkzo]

"DA get flak missles? OMG DA are teh_winzors"!!!

"Warptalons have lightning claws as STANDARD!?!?!?!? WTF GW is broken I quit, time for warmachine!"

Oh the irony. Warp talons are generally regarded as less than satisfactory and the heldrake was seen as useless when it arrived and now it's a staple in a lot of builds.

[Lexington]

The tactical box was released in 1998, none of the other plastic kits are that old. I think the plastic Guardian set was released in 2006 in comparison.
Well, the timing's a little different - the majority of the Eldar plastic kit dates back to their 3rd Edition Codex (1999), and were only repackaged with a plastic heavy weapons platform in late 4th (2006). Similarly, the current plastic Marine kit is mostly made up of bits first introduced in the 3rd Ed boxed set (1998), but got a new command/special/heavy weapons sprue in either the 4th (2004) or 5th (2008) Edition of their Codex - can't remember which. Short story being, they're both pretty old, though still very solid kits.

I'd actually put my money on the Space Marine kit remaining mostly the same, while being repackaged with either an entirely re-made command/specials sprue that contains the Gravity weapons, or a whole new sprue that contains both the Gravity weapons and the HPG/Heavy Bolter/Multi-Melta that are currently only available in the Devastators box.

I'd love it if the new big armor kit ended up looking like those old Games Day sketches - bone_pone's description of chest-mounted weaponry and drills replacing the arms squares better with the Chaos Marine aesthetic, to my mind. Marine weaponry should stay either shoulder-mounted, hand-held, or hand-like.

[RGilbert26]

all other aspects are not 5, they are 6. 5 plus exarch, which is really friggen anoying.

Cleary you missed the '5' in my post.

Anyway..

[deinol]

It doesn't matter what other armies did or didn't get. Something like 75% of players have a marine army or marine derived army (even if it isn't their primary army). So launching a new set that is the backbone of their bread and butter line would be a no brainer.

You can't judge if new additions (or hell, existing options) are balanced until we have point costs and availability, not to mention mechanics.

I for one look forward to the other chapters getting a little more love. Ravenguard! (I don't really play marines anymore, but my first chapter was a Raven successor.)

[Cap'nSmurfs]

While the core designs are the same, the Space Marine Tactical box was retooled and upgraded with more bits in around 2004, for what it's worth.

[Cpt Codpiece]

While the core designs are the same, the Space Marine Tactical box was retooled and upgraded with more bits in around 2004, for what it's worth.

they only jiggled the sprue and added the accessory bits though.... hardly a re release or major upgrade. more purity seals and underpants untucked from the front of power armour (that useless half tabard) are not an upgrade :)

space wolves have had more core plastic sets than generic SM

[Ravingbantha]

Cleary you missed the '5' in my post.

Anyway..

Clearly you missed the '6' in my post.

Anyway..

[Lexington]

space wolves have had more core plastic sets than generic SM
While that's true, I wouldn't wish the awful Space Wolf plastics on my worst enemy. :(

[RGilbert26]

Clearly you missed the '6' in my post.

Anyway..

Nope didnt miss it, im already aware of the fact that most of the other aspects have 6.

[Cpt Codpiece]

While that's true, I wouldn't wish the awful Space Wolf plastics on my worst enemy. :(

i really like the power armour set we have now.... the old upgrade is still usable too :)

not a fan of the monstrosities hanging off the terminators though

[magickbk]

While that's true, I wouldn't wish the awful Space Wolf plastics on my worst enemy. :(

Which is sort of hilarious, because the previous Space Wolf plastics were pretty awesome. I would say the new ones, with a sprue of old ones to replace the hideous parts is the best compromise.

[Cpt Codpiece]

Which is sort of hilarious, because the previous Space Wolf plastics were pretty awesome. I would say the new ones, with a sprue of old ones to replace the hideous parts is the best compromise.

i was meant to put it on the post before :) but the only bit of the new PA set i dont like are the bare heads and the positioning on the LCs, they look ridiculous!

[MajorWesJanson]

they only jiggled the sprue and added the accessory bits though.... hardly a re release or major upgrade. more purity seals and underpants untucked from the front of power armour (that useless half tabard) are not an upgrade :)

space wolves have had more core plastic sets than generic SM

3rd Edition Tac marines were laid out where each marine was in his own little section of the sprue that could be separated, and then a small sergeant upgrade sprue was added. 2004 saw the new (modern) sergeant upgrade sprue added, and the marine sprues recut to the current neat rows of 5 legs and torsoes, which the assault squad and tac squad shared the torso half, and the assault squad got running legs while the tac squad got bolter arms and standing legs. The assault squad still had individual jump pack sprues until I think 2005 with the BT release, when the Assault marine upgrade sprue came along with the chests with straps, power axe, plasma pistols, and jump packs.

Sales wise, a new tac squad is used in enough armies that it could recoup it's costs pretty well. From a gaming perspective, they can add parts that are not in tac squads right now, like a mix of power weapons and power fist, new graviton gun stuff. From a manufacturing point of view, I'd expect a 2 frame sprue with 5 models on it, duplicated twice (like the Wolf Pack box). A two frame sprue is smaller and cheaper to tool, and having 5 man sprues would allow for flexability of putting them in say battleforces. You would end up with duplicates of a potential heavy weapon, but it gives more space than a single 3 frame sprue, and form a manufacturing point of view, would be simpler to make a single sprue duplicated than the current single sprue duplicated plus an additional upgrade sprue, which adds material cost, production time, and packaging cost.

[jonsgot]

I spoke to one of the designers who was working on this release last year. He told me the Tactical Space Marine box set is still the biggest seller across the whole range. They don't need to retool from a sales perspective, however they are aware that it's now a bit dull compared to the Space Wolves, Blood Angels etc. Fortunatley the design team still get to make some of the decisions about what get's made. He said they would have liked to have worked a full set of MkVIII armour into the new set, but can't make the legs using plastic moulding techniques.

I did a full write up last September.

http://chaptermasters.com/recap-games-day-uk-2012-words-from-the-studio/

and whay I expect to see in the new box set.

http://chaptermasters.com/rumours-all-the-contents-of-the-new-space-marine-tactical-squad/

I am concerned the price will increase. I don't think the Dire Avengers can be used as evidence of this.

[Cpt Codpiece]

3rd Edition Tac marines were laid out where each marine was in his own little section of the sprue that could be separated, and then a small sergeant upgrade sprue was added. 2004 saw the new (modern) sergeant upgrade sprue added

that's what i was saying, the only change was a retool of the sprue and the accessory/srg bits on a sprue. the legs and torso's were exactly the same, just in different locations (if i remember right) until the command box added the kneeling legs and the static standing spread legs.
i was not counting the assault squad as that was a separate box :)

as for Mk VIII its easy enough to do the balls on the ankles, the only issues i have with the Mk VIII torso we have is..... it has no head, the helm is supposed to be flared over the gorget at the sides... we just need the streamlined arms (built in bolter or storm) and mini powerfist they are supposed to have too :)

[Kirsten]

at the very least they need to invest in a new mold, the mold lines on tac squads these days are absolutely horrendous.

[Bigred]

I'm closing this thread, please continue the conversation on the original Space Marine rumor round up here:

Space Marine Rumor Roundup (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?33376-Space-Marines-Rumor-Roundup)