FW Apocalypse is nigh!

[eldargal]

Thirty pounds of Apocalypse: (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/IMPERIAL_ARMOUR_APOCALYPSE.html)
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/apoc-cover-store.jpg

Also, formation packages (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/APOCALYPSE_BATTLE_FORMATIONS)
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/eldar-spirit-defender.jpg
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/skyscythe-slaugterhost.jpg
£27 saving on that last one, yay discounts!

[Defenestratus]

Well Eldar players, incoming nerfing:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/FW_Apoc13-52.jpg

Wraithseer only can get a wraithcannon now for 40 pts (WAT?!) and the Warp Hunter barrage is down to 3" blast at Str 7 AP3 (?!) and predictably, you can't take CTM on it (No Eldar Heldrake - pity)

Deliverance is nerfed down to a 5+ FNP.


It was fun while it lasted. These nerfs better come with some hefty price drops. I'm using a wraithseer in an escalation league right now and I'm going to be quite mad that he lost his D-Cannon barrage. So so stupid that they took away his D-Cannon.

[daboarder]

That is the dumbest thing I have read today, its not even the heavy wraithcannon......so absolutely stupid

and why the hell is the wraithseers Ld test at -3 power a witchfire and NOT a malediction? so you need to roll to hit....Who had their pants on their head when they wrote that?

[DrLove42]

Yep, i saw the AP 3 and was dissapoint. Why is a D Cannon carried by a guy, or on a weapons platform S 10, but a bigger, tank mounted version only Strength 7?

It is 3 shots though, so its 3 hits. Its just not going to worry Terminators any more,or heavy vehicles. Does mean its a harder choice between Fire Prism or Warp Hunter

I only hope Hornets are still OK, or my Eldar army is going FW free for a long time

[Mr Mystery]

Yay! Pylons! CHEAP PYLONS!

Yes please Forgeworld....I'll be having some of that!

[eldargal]

Yay, Eldar Can't Have Nice Things strikes again. I mean the Warp Hunter needed a nerf or price increase but losing D-cannon for Distort AND getting a smaller blast is fudging ridiculous. Better be damned cheap, it's not like the regular codex doesn't have an abundance of AP3 killiness already.

Wraithcannon on a 'seer was already 40pts though.

[daboarder]

Seer had a D-cannon, now its got the gun the wraithguard have, HUGE difference.

[eldargal]

Ah, missed that. What a joke. Because what Eldar REALLY need in Apocalypse is more S7/8 firepower.:rolleyes: I just hope the other races stuff is equally ****ed and it's not just ours.

[daboarder]

The biomorphs for the hierophant are interesting, one gives it a transport capacity of 20 termagants, its called a S***** incubator, Hope thats NOT a sign of things to come for the tervigon.

[Defenestratus]

Ah, missed that. What a joke. Because what Eldar REALLY need in Apocalypse is more S7/8 firepower.:rolleyes: I just hope the other races stuff is equally ****ed and it's not just ours.

What I don't understand is why they DIDN'T change his statline to be more in tune with the new Wraithlord stats (he's still S10) but they nerfed literally, everything else about him. Not a single thing didn't get nerfed. Offensive - nerfed. Defensive - nerfed. Psychic - nerfed (and its unlikely the price will drop at all, so therefore, cost - nerfed).

Next thing you know he's going to take up an HQ AND A heavy slot.

The warp hunter is a travesty honestly. I don't know how the damn tank D-cannon is LESS powerful than the platform mounted version. The AP3 on it is a slap in the face.

All I'm waiting for is the shoe to drop on the Nightwing and Phoenix. They're about the only FW units worth taking now for Eldar and I can only imagine after all the whinging I've heard about the NW that its about to get hit with the ole nerf-bat.

"You have a flyerin your codex why don't you use that?"

"Because it sucks. Badly"

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Sad about Eldar. Maybe because of the 40k stamp they've been brought "in line" with 40k stuff? Or maybe they were just nerfed, oh well.

Some of these bundles are looking like pretty tempting opportunities for financial Armageddon, on the other hand.

[DrLove42]

Can someone going to GamesDay this year slap a FW writer for me?

[Defenestratus]

Sad about Eldar. Maybe because of the 40k stamp they've been brought "in line" with 40k stuff? Or maybe they were just nerfed, oh well.

Some of these bundles are looking like pretty tempting opportunities for financial Armageddon, on the other hand.

I think everyone expected the Warp Hunter to go back to a small blast with the advent of Distort weapons being S10 - then having it have a like Str 6 Torrent effect - but this was like getting kicked in the face.

I'm writing up my outrage to FW right now.

F*ck emailing. I'm on hold waiting to yell at them.

[Tyrendian]

yeah and of course I just got me a Warp Hunter... argh... AP3 is really weird... the three shot small blast instead of one large blast is not that bad of a nerf though imo, and even S7 I could have lived with, maybe even S4 fleshbane distort to keep it similar to the old one, but being the only zogging D weapon with AP3? WHAT THE FRAG... FW i hate you...

On the other hand, FW at least knows how to make attractive bundles... massive savings on those! 40% on the Pylon Network thingy? almost makes up for their horrible rules writing skills...

[Mr Mystery]

How is anyone making anything out on those photos?

I've tried enlarging them, but it's just blurry!

Looks like the Warphunter is now Barrage. Which is handy for cover and that. Can't make the rest out.

[eldargal]

It's not a d-cannon, if it was it wouldn't be so bad. D-cannons, I'm fairly sure, wound non-vehicles on a 2+. Distort IDs on a 6+. The blast thing isn't a catastrophe, it's the combination of things. The reason to take a WH in regular games of 40k was the d-cannon, the reason to take them in Apoc games was the D-cannon. If the regular version doesn't have a d-cannon, there are plenty of other codex choices you can use to spurt hot, sticky death onto the faces of the enemy. If you're playing Apoc then you want D-cannons, so you are better off taking units with d-cannons. Leaving the Warp Hunter as the Banshees of the eldar vehicle pool.:(


How is anyone making anything out on those photos?

I've tried enlarging them, but it's just blurry!

Looks like the Warphunter is now Barrage. Which is handy for cover and that. Can't make the rest out.

Right, but if cover was a problem before you could use the template version. It's nice but not enough to justify losing d-cannons.

[Siris Le Osiris]

It also looks like it has lost torrent as it looks like template not torrent in the flame profile.

Note beneath is nothing special looks to be
*when firing the D-something (D-Flail / D-fail?) select the firing mode each time the weapon? is fired and resolve the attack with the something profile

[eldargal]

So, FW Facebook say the Wraithseer is supposed to have a d-cannon not a wraithcannon. So that's nice. Doesn't help the Warp Hunter.

[Siris Le Osiris]

Blast also looks like heavy 2 not heavy 3 :( flat line on the bottom of the number followed by a comma.

[Defenestratus]

How is anyone making anything out on those photos?

I've tried enlarging them, but it's just blurry!

Looks like the Warphunter is now Barrage. Which is handy for cover and that. Can't make the rest out.

It was barrage before. And Barrage LARGE BLAST.

[DrLove42]

It also looks like it has lost torrent as it looks like template not torrent in the flame profile.

Note beneath is nothing special looks to be
*when firing the D-something (D-Flail / D-fail?) select the firing mode each time the weapon? is fired and resolve the attack with the something profile

It never was torrent. As a rule it predated the torrent rule. It could be placed 6". But don't see that in new rules

[Tyrendian]

It was barrage before. And Barrage LARGE BLAST.

well two or three shots small blast instead of the one large wouldn't have been so bad imo... the real problems are AP3 (complete and utter nonsense) and the loss of (semi-)Torrent (which pretty much means that firing mode is entirely dead...)

[Mr Mystery]

What's that, Evil Me?

It's as if FW knew the Eldar players would whinge regardless, so this time gave them a reason?

No Evil Me, that's simply not constructive.

(yes, I'm joking)

[DrLove42]

If the Mortis 2 Autocannon Contemptor has been nerfed to the same degree i'll be fine.

If its just Eldar stuff thats been nerfed....

[Poseidal]

This is the biggest amount of bad design I've seen in a long time. From my post in Warseer:

his is the problem with Forge World, and using one of the 'duds' in the GW Eldar book as an example (Hemlock in this case) of why FW is worse in principle:

Hemlock is bad but it's weapons make sense in what they are and how they work, if a bit underpowered/overcosted; the Warp Hunter weapons don't follow the pattern of any of the GW distort weapons. The 3 S7 blasts may be quite good, but in the end it's not a Distort Cannon and doesn't behave like the other Distort weaponry, or how you'd imagine Distort weaponry to work.

This makes Forgeworld look unprofessional and seem not to care about anything but their pet projects.

EDIT: is it actually called a D-Fail? Because it really does fail at actually being like Distort weaponry.

[Tyrendian]

If the Mortis 2 Autocannon Contemptor has been nerfed to the same degree i'll be fine.

If its just Eldar stuff thats been nerfed....

yeah well that remains to be seen... the Warp Hunter did need a nerf though tbh... just not that hard... anyway I wouldn't put it past FW to have the AP3 be a misprint, and with AP2 that thing would still be acceptable I think - not nearly as good as before but acceptable...

[Poseidal]

yeah well that remains to be seen... the Warp Hunter did need a nerf though tbh... just not that hard... anyway I wouldn't put it past FW to have the AP3 be a misprint, and with AP2 that thing would still be acceptable I think - not nearly as good as before but acceptable...

The irony is, it kept the 36" range (which it should never have had in the first place), and the template still kills power armour on a 2+, but you just have to get closer.

If it were the 24" range Distort (but not ordnance) demolisher, would there have been any problems in the first place?

[Mr Mystery]

Also massive assumption that the pages shown are accurate. And not perhaps, samples with deliberate errors to ensure people actually buy the book.

Paranoid I know, but worth considering.

[eldargal]

Well FW have already confirmed the Wraithseer d-cannon thing is an error so surely if that were the case they would just say so.

[Mr Mystery]

Quite possibly.

I did say it was paranoid!

[Brakkart]

Seer had a D-cannon, now its got the gun the wraithguard have, HUGE difference.

Someone queried this on FW's Facebook page and FW have already responded and said that that is an error and it should be a D-Cannon for 40 pts, not a Wraithcannon. Expect that to be in the errata when it is released.

[Mr Mystery]

Now, if we can put that to one side.....

I'm stunned at some of the savings available here. The Pylons are a must have for me! Loadsa dakka without breaking the bank!

[DarkLink]

It was barrage before. And Barrage LARGE BLAST.

Actually, while the lower strength and AP is obviously a nerf, a 3 shot AP3 Barrage weapon is still really good. You can pretty reliably snipe characters. But the flamer doesn't have pseudo-Torrent anymore, right? Still a pretty good tank though, I think, just not stupidly fantastic like the old one.

[Tyrendian]

Now, if we can put that to one side.....

I'm stunned at some of the savings available here. The Pylons are a must have for me! Loadsa dakka without breaking the bank!

yeah that thing is an amazingly good deal... I wonder if the FW staff would pack the other Sentry Pylon variants in there if one asked them nicely... while the Gauss Exterminator certainly isn't bad (who doens't like two Icarus in one model, although an expensive one...) I like the other two variants even better, especially the Death Ray...

[daboarder]

Well FW have already confirmed the Wraithseer d-cannon thing is an error so surely if that were the case they would just say so.

Really? Where, not being skeptical just need to read that myself


Someone queried this on FW's Facebook page and FW have already responded and said that that is an error and it should be a D-Cannon for 40 pts, not a Wraithcannon. Expect that to be in the errata when it is released.


Oh cheers, sigh, I hope that errata doesn't take long....still anyone got a screen shot of that to slap people with in the interim?

[White Tiger88]

*Sigh* Really nothing for Slaanesh? What is this crap GW!

[DrLove42]

*Sigh* Really nothing for Slaanesh? What is this crap GW!



The giant Slanesh deamon is in here.

And as its the only slaneshy thing FW makes, that means theyve given you 100% of the slanesh stuff they could.in this book

[White Tiger88]

The giant Slanesh deamon is in here.

And as its the only slaneshy thing FW makes, that means theyve given you 100% of the slanesh stuff they could.in this book

Thats the problem! We need more boob demons damn it! Also did they change anything on my pretty? (OR allow it in normal 40k games...)

[SaveModifier]

If only sceince could work out a way to harness power from nerd tears, GW could be the worlds largest energy supplier.

[Pssyche]

Really? Where, not being skeptical just need to read that myself




Oh cheers, sigh, I hope that errata doesn't take long....still anyone got a screen shot of that to slap people with in the interim?


Hopefully, this'll keep you going for a while, mister!

4475

[Redemption]

All I'm waiting for is the shoe to drop on the Nightwing and Phoenix. They're about the only FW units worth taking now for Eldar and I can only imagine after all the whinging I've heard about the NW that its about to get hit with the ole nerf-bat.
Well at least those two aren't in this book, so they'll remain as they are for a while longer. :)

[Anggul]

Wow. Those were absolutely pointless nerfs. Wraithseers weren't exactly amazing in the first place, and the Warp Hunter is now completely pointless. It brings absolutely nothing to the Eldar table.

[bob sprocket]

Is the chaos spartan any good? An alternative to their crappy land raider? Hope it's cheaper than the experimental rules? It lost machine spirit for 0 points reduction and the ability to buy ceramite armour, hope that was fixed as well.

[Defenestratus]

Wow. Those were absolutely pointless nerfs. Wraithseers weren't exactly amazing in the first place, and the Warp Hunter is now completely pointless. It brings absolutely nothing to the Eldar table.

To be fair, FW did recognize the error of their ways and admit that it should have a d-cannon.

[eldargal]

Yep, hopefully they will do the same with the Warp Hunter.

[Defenestratus]

Yep, hopefully they will do the same with the Warp Hunter.

Honestly if the warp hunter went back to AP2, it would be worth taking as a cheaper, and in its role, more effective version of the suncannon WK since it would have barrage.

[eldargal]

Yeah, I just think it is a shame for it to lose D-cannons, they really distinguished it from the crowd.

[Poseidal]

Yeah, I just think it is a shame for it to lose D-cannons, they really distinguished it from the crowd.

Considering the Warp Hunter concept is older than Forge World is (with actual big D-Cannons), I would hope so.

What sort of person thinks "This is a larger version of a single existing gun. Obviously what it needs is less strength and worse AP, firing two more shots than the normal version."?

If their Imperial or Heresy stuff got the same treatment, Contemptor Lascannons would be Multilasers and the Land Raider with a Demolisher would fire 3 S7 AP3 small blasts.

[eldargal]

Apparently the Lynx has been screwed over quite a bit too.:( It's like FW don't want us to buy their eldar kits.

[Bigred]

WHAT WHAT?

I have a Lynx on order... What did you hear ma'am?

[z3n1st]

yes we need the goods on the Eldar nerf bat extravaganza. Its like Forgeworld didn't want to sell any more Eldar stuff from what I have been seeing

[eldargal]

thanks to our friend there:

ELDAR LYNX - RIP

POINTS: +100

FRONT AV: -1 (yes equal to a hornet, and less than every standard Eldar skimmer tank).
SIDE AV: -1 (same as above)
REAR AV: +1 (a boobie prize)

Has the same field as the Phantom and Revenant, but as a Super Heavy (even though a Fast Skimmer type) still no Jink.

PULSAR: -1 Shot


An Imperial Shadowsword is now just 35 points more, with twice the range (at least before the Lynx had twice the shots at half the range), 3 more HPs, 3 more front AV, 2 more side AV and 1 more rear AV.

Sorry I left this out. Pulsar is 'Primary Weapon 2' at 60"

Not impressed.

[z3n1st]

So what I am hearing is this: If you don't use flashlights as your primary weapon or wear a Space Can and have pointy ears and your name rhymes with Car, don't buy Forge world...

single manly fusillade of tears

wow, forge world, just...wow

[DrLove42]

What? For the love of god...why FW?

[eldargal]

Because **** YOU that's why! *table flip*

Probly.

[DrLove42]

Cos we just don't need your money any more Eldar players.

[Poseidal]

People buying Eldar will make the high ups tell them to keep making more grav vehicles for the various races. This is more effort than making countless variations of the same treaded vehicles which they love doing, so they made the rules for anything else really bad so they get to avoid making more grav vehicles as they don't sell thanks to poor rules.

[Defenestratus]

What? For the love of god...why FW?

You think you're mad?

....

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Iqu3AiFUTmU/UOsDrmUi3YI/AAAAAAAAf4w/Euh_uqaDPuM/w1039-h779-no/IMG_20130107_121828.jpg

Yeah... I'm downright LiVID.

How the F*CK could they justify loweing the nerf hammer so badly on these guys AND making them more expensive?

I can see why people would buy them over scorpions but why not just make the scorpion BETTER?

EDIT: THere HAS to be something missing from the story here. Does the Lynx count as a flyer now maybe? Thats the only reasoning I can think for the drop of AV, halving its offensive forepower, and then making it MORE expensive - especially as the new Apoc rules didn't really favor the lynx anyways.

[DrLove42]

I feel you mate. I don't own any of them, and now never will. The smashing is just appauling. I'm worried about what they'll have done to Hornets, are they going to kill the last FW unit?

[Defenestratus]

I feel you mate. I don't own any of them, and now never will. The smashing is just appauling. I'm worried about what they'll have done to Hornets, are they going to kill the last FW unit?

I just sent a scathing email to FW telling them that not only am I not going to buy the book from them, I'm not going to buy any more models from them period. How could I?

A models worth is not only due to its quality, size, asthetics - but also in its rules and what it does for you on the battlefield. How can I spend my money on anything at FW knowing that they're willing to just eviscerate the rules of the unit? To be honest, I'm not all that thrilled on the Lynx model - but I bought them because they were priced right for dealing with my friend's 2 warlord and 1 imperator titans and all four mega daemons. THATS why I bought those models. Maybe its for the wrong reason but its just a sad fact of the hobby.

Here's a better question.

If I'm an Eldar player, did FW give me ANY REASON whatsoever to pickup this book? So far I don't see any.

[eldargal]

Yep not much of an incentive. At best we are going to have to rely on a bloody FAQ if they choose to make things actually worth taking. Thank god the titans are in the regular GW book.

[DrLove42]

Yep, we've got a wierd switch from the last version.

The Revenant is now the best thing we've got. Although no word on cobra or scorpion rules

I'm buying it now for rules for my DE and Chaos.

[magickbk]

I'm in the habit of not getting anything from Forge World that I can't use straight-up as something from the Codex, just for these kinds of situations, even if it means having some variant turrets or bits to make it compliant. I got the Repressor when it came out, and it was only ever used as one once during a Battle Bunker event. It has been the Rhino for my Inquisitor for 10 years, though.

[eldargal]

Damn I forgot about Dark Eldar. Damnit I bet FW has made their stuff really good. All three pieces of it.

[DrLove42]

Hmmm. From the small text i can read the Reaper is unchanged...maybe shorter range, but don't remember what it used to be. But points may have changed

The Tantalus has always been poor in my opinions so I can't see that getting worse, so maybe better

The aircraft isn't in this book.

I've ordered my book. Get it next week. Just hope its not all doom and gloom

[eldargal]

So there is one Eldar formation in the book, a corsair formation. Which doesn't use any of the FW corsairs. So evidently FW have forgotten they made a ****ing corsair list in IA11.:rolleyes:

[Defenestratus]

hi,
thank you for your email. We will certainly pass on your email to our design team to read.

If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
forge world


this

does

not

sate

my

rage.

[DrLove42]

Is that a polite wya of saying "Thanks. We don't care. Bye"

[Autarch]

As an Eldar player I'm definitely worried. I was bummed about the nerfing of the warp hunter. Though still viable it definitely was knocked down a significant notch. ...the lynx was hit pretty hard too. Please don't mess with my hornets.

I guess all I can say is thank god for the wave serpents.

[magickbk]

Is that a polite wya of saying "Thanks. We don't care. Bye"

These are clearly the words of the broken-spirited individual who has to answer hundreds of emails and calls every time Forge World releases something.

[Lord Krungharr]

So does nobody actually have the new FW Apoc book yet? I'm dying to know what Aetaosraukeres and Scabiethrax are like now, not to mention Angraath.

The apparent Eldar de-clawing would tick me off too, if I had Eldar stuff. Perhaps they just don't feel like pouring resin into those molds anymore? Molds take up space, and they have all that new Horus Heresy stuff....

[Gotthammer]

So there is one Eldar formation in the book, a corsair formation. Which doesn't use any of the FW corsairs. So evidently FW have forgotten they made a ****ing corsair list in IA11.:rolleyes:

You've read IA11, right? They barely remembered they had Corsairs in there either :rolleyes:

On a tangential note, this does support GW's codex schedule of only working on the books when people are passionate about them, as FW really seem to be forcing the Eldar stuff :/

[Defenestratus]

You've read IA11, right? They barely remembered they had Corsairs in there either :rolleyes:

On a tangential note, this does support GW's codex schedule of only working on the books when people are passionate about them, as FW really seem to be forcing the Eldar stuff :/

Seems to me that FW's strategy is to tell its customers "Buy Waveserpents"

I'm going to get a digital copy of the book before I decide to buy it - but if the scorpion and cobra haven't gotten BETTER to compensate for the death of the Lynx, well then I might just keep my dollars state-side.

[Homeworld]

When things like these happen, I always think they would never do the same treatment with space marines or imperial guard factions.

[AirHorse]

So there is one Eldar formation in the book, a corsair formation. Which doesn't use any of the FW corsairs. So evidently FW have forgotten they made a ****ing corsair list in IA11.:rolleyes:

Maybe they are going to actually update IA11 or something!!! Or maybe I've not woken up properly yet...

[eldargal]

As a pdf probably, yes, doesn't explain why they wouldn't include corsairs in a corsair formation in their own damned book. I mean they made corsair kits for gods sake...

[AirHorse]

Well, I more meant maybe they are going to reprint the book like they did with a couple of the others. Would make sense to do it vaguely near the brand new elder codex! Or have they said they wont be doing a second edition of IA11 already and I missed it?

[eldargal]

They said on Facebook it would most likely be a pdf. Even a second print edition wouldn't explain why the eldar entries are so ****ed up though.

[AirHorse]

No, definitely not. But I was more thinking perhaps they want people who are after corsairs to get the corsair book, but if its just getting pdf'd that theory is less sound! I think I was just being hopeful for the book to be 6th ed'd rather than just having a pdf :(.

[Defenestratus]

Woooooooooooops wrong thread nothing to see here folks move along.

[eldargal]

Seems the only fans are, unsuprisingly, here on BoLS Forum.
Right, because it isn't like there isn't a storm of sh!t with every GW release regardless.:rolleyes:

[lattd]

Shadow spectres have been updated and you can now give an autarch the shadow spectre jump pack, which combined with the mask of the laughing good means even better solitaire, smaller foot print but slightly worse cover save.

[eldargal]

Points decrease is good, losing inv save to cover save is irritating, losing range increase on ghostlight is just stupid. So they are now more easily killed and can't increase the range on their weapons to avoid nasty templates.

Edit: Ok so they also gained Fear and the diffuse firing mode dropped one Ap to AP4. The new Exarch power Shadow of Death is nice but why would you want the SS in close combat to boost Fear?
Oh and focused prism thingy has the Lance rule, meaning a minimal squad of 3 gets an S8 AP1 lance shot which isn't bad.

[Dragannia]

Points decrease is good, losing inv save to cover save is irritating, losing range increase on ghostlight is just stupid. So they are now more easily killed and can't increase the range on their weapons to avoid nasty templates.

Edit: Ok so they also gained Fear and the diffuse firing mode dropped one Ap to AP4. The new Exarch power Shadow of Death is nice but why would you want the SS in close combat to boost Fear?
Oh and focused prism thingy has the Lance rule, meaning a minimal squad of 3 gets an S8 AP1 lance shot which isn't bad.

They don't. You reduce the AP by 1 OR add Strength by 1. One or the other. They're horrible now, worse than before IMO.

Before they had the ability to stay reasonably long ranged. They've lost that now. AP4 blast is what they'll be used for, at 18". They lost the blast on the Ghostlight. On average, you're getting 4 hits, and they use MAJORITY, not the Prism Blaster, so they start at Strength 6 AP 3. You're getting, on average, Str 10 AP 3 lance shot, or Str 8 AP 1 Lance. An 18" Brightlance at AP 1 is not worth 200 points.

They're like...crappy Vespid now.

[z3n1st]

Note sure you are correct in it auto going to 6/3 50% is not majority, and if it was then 7/2 is ALSO the majority. (assuming you bought the blaster for the Exarch)

Min squad of 3 with 4 shots and all hit could potentially use the 7/2 profile, each hit would be added (so 4 modifiers, not three; its 1 modifier for each hit not each hit past the first). so Str 10 AP 1 lance shot in a three man team with Exarch. That's also not 200pts its 115pts for that death dealing. At first glance it looks meh, but its a serious AV14 killing unit for 115 pts (remember they can also deep strike). Also 18" range is misleading since they have Battlefocus and Fleet as well.

[eldargal]

They don't. You reduce the AP by 1 OR add Strength by 1. One or the other. They're horrible now, worse than before IMO.

Before they had the ability to stay reasonably long ranged. They've lost that now. AP4 blast is what they'll be used for, at 18". They lost the blast on the Ghostlight. On average, you're getting 4 hits, and they use MAJORITY, not the Prism Blaster, so they start at Strength 6 AP 3. You're getting, on average, Str 10 AP 3 lance shot, or Str 8 AP 1 Lance. An 18" Brightlance at AP 1 is not worth 200 points.

They're like...crappy Vespid now.
Damnit you're right, for ****s sake Forge World.

[Poseidal]

They're also six meltabombs a piece for something that's not really more survivable than a Dire Avenger or Howling Banshee.

[Mr Mystery]

I wonder if they're planning on more Eldar book stuff in the future. And are ensuring they make stuff suck now, so they can soup it back up shortly, ensuring moar sales

[Thaldin]

Glad I never invested in anything FW does (other than a couple wave serpents back in the day) for Eldar... they are really bending them over the table.

[Belial69]

Anybody else notice how gw are taking the nerf bat to eldar, the very last codex to come out, whilst at the same time new marine pics get leaked a fortnight earlier than usual?

[Archon Charybdis]

Yeah, they really dont seem to stack up compared to Spiders or Spears. They maybe have more firepower, but they're slower, more fragile, and more expensive. I also don't see the need for Fear on a fragile shooting unit that has no business being in CC, and the ghostlight rules are a bit meh. For my money they'd need to be about 5pts cheaper and have a 3+ armor to be worth it.

[DrLove42]

Got my.book this morning.

The Warp Hunter is more expensive.

THE cobra now only has a 7" blast.

The hornets are relativly unchanged....but can now always fire snapshots if they move flatout.

[Stone Edwards]

Well look on the bright side everyone, at least now the decision of weather to get forge world stuff or not has been made a lot easier! Just frees up more money to spend on wave serpents! YAY!

[legalsmash]

Any word on what the nightwing will look like? I have been lovingly painting and converting one to go with my wraithfighter and crimson exarch.

[Pssyche]

The Nightwing is covered in Imperial Armour Aeronautica.

[z3n1st]

For those with the book, what is the WarpHunter weapon profile now?

[DrLove42]

For those with the book, what is the WarpHunter weapon profile now?

the Warp Hunter is 20 points more than the Fire Prism is base

Basic Eldar tank statline, with underslung catapults that can be upgraded. Can take Spirit Stones, S Engines, V ENgines and Holfields (no CTM)

Main gun is D Flail. 36" S7 AP3 Heavy 3 3" blast barrage. Or template at same line. No torrent ability of any kind. Both weapons have distort too

In other words, more expensive and worse in nearly every way.

[DiscoStooo]

Any details on the hornet? I.e price/options compared to how it used to be?

[DrLove42]

Hornet is 5 points more expensive, but comes with 2 cannons. So 2 Scatter lasers is 5 points cheaper than it used to be.

Same stat line, 2 HP, can fire all its guns as snap shots if it moves flat out

Can take Holofields, V Engines and Stones.

[DiscoStooo]

Thank, Something Eldar Survived the nerd stick then! In fact improved - a great flyer hunter now.

[Defenestratus]

Got my.book this morning.

The Warp Hunter is more expensive.

THE cobra now only has a 7" blast.

The hornets are relativly unchanged....but can now always fire snapshots if they move flatout.

GGGGGGGGGGGARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is the wraithseer cheaper or more expensive?

Lets go over the nerfs

1) Warp hunter
2) Lynx
3) Wraithseer*
4) Cobra

Things that stayed the same:
1) Hornets

Yeah seems fair FW... seems REAL fair.

[DrLove42]

Wraithseer is the same base cost. and depending on what gun he might be cheaper. Lances are cheaper, scatter lasers and missiles are more expensive, and he can now take a Shuriken Cannon. His spear is no longer reroll all to hits and is just master crafted. It can reroll armour pens rather than the +1 it used to be. Also Enliven and Deliverance do not have a range listed. Theyre just blessings that can target a friendly unit.

Did we mention the Lynx went up in cost by 90points to go with its nerfs?

The vampires are both unchanged from the Aeronautica book

[DiscoStooo]

So, to go back to the hornet for a moment (cos the rest is too depressing) it's cost with two scatter lasers is the same as a war walker with 2 scatters and a Holofield? I take it loses the built in star engines and that is replaced by the snap fire when flat out? Does it still have scout?

[DrLove42]

2 scatter lasers is 80pts. Its still got scout. and built in Star engines. Also has acute senses....have they always had that?

[DiscoStooo]

No, that's new. Sounds like it got buffed!

[DrLove42]

Yep, the hornet, the thing people whinged to me most about seems to have been buffed. Meanwhile everything else has been buggered.

[isotope99]

I wouldn't mind some of this if they had done the same to the imperial titans but they are still in general cheaper, tougher and longer range.

If you'll forgive a self interested non-eldar question is An'grathh substantially changed in points or power? I won't get my book until the end of the month when I next go to WHW.

[DrLove42]

Angrath (annd all the FW deamons) are unchanged in points. Hes a flying MC, 3++ invuln. His whip is only AP3, but combat wise seems largely unchanged.

[Defenestratus]

Angrath (annd all the FW deamons) are unchanged in points. Hes a flying MC, 3++ invuln. His whip is only AP3, but combat wise seems largely unchanged.

Although it helps me a lot, the changes to D-weapons really hurt the FW Greater Daemons. Titan CCW's will just RIP through them like butter (assuming the titan survives the initial attack)

[DrLove42]

Angrath has 7-13 WS high S10 Gargantuan Creature attacks on the charge....

[Defenestratus]

Angrath has 7-13 WS high S10 Gargantuan Creature attacks on the charge....

My phantom survived 3 turns of combat against a combined assault from Thunderchicken and Ang'grath.

That was "old rules" though.

[Archon Charybdis]

There was mention of the Cobra's blast getting smaller; any commensurate points decrease to go with it? And did it also lose the "ignore power fields/void shields" rule like the Phantom D-cannon did?

[tetrisphreak]

Drlove, what can you tell us regarding malanthrope broods? Have they changed much from their previous iteration?

[DrLove42]

The cobras blast went from 10" to 7". Its also had a points increase. Base (without the top gun) is 675 points now. It got some wierd residual effect thing, that after firing you roll a dice. On a 4+ the blast stays in place until your next turn and any enemy that begins or ends its movement in it take a wound or a glancing hit, no saves on a 6+. Doesn't affect superheavies or gargantuans though.

Think that through....if a non super heavy thing has been shot at and survived somehow, you have a 1 in 12 chance of maybe wounding them again. But you haveto leave the blast under what ever you shot at, so move all your models lay it down and put em back on top.

Malanthropes, I'm not sure what they were before. Now they have a wierd effect that if they kill a unit in combat, they give every Nid within 12" preferred enemy of it. So kill infantry or bikes and every Nid in 12" gets P.E (Infantry) or P.E (Bikes)

[Tyrendian]

if I wasn't completely braindead yesterday when I went through my book (which might have been the case after Games Day admittedly...) Hornets got buffed substantially - all their guns (yes, including Pulse Lasers! not sure 'bout EML) are only 5pts a piece now... I was like "wow, a buff for something Eldar? I don't believe it...") Could you confirm that DrLove? My book is with a friend right now who borrowed it immediately :D

Also, there seems to have been a substantial Eff-up with Contemptors... the Space Wolf one is now listed with 4!!!! Attacks base (and no it doesn't have 2 CCW but may buy them for 5A...) while the Contemptor Mortis lost its BS5 - which seems excedingly weird since the regular Contemptor still has the option for a Targeting Augury to make it BS5, but the Mortis doesn't... also I'm pretty sure the picture of the Mortis model still has the Augury listed... so I'd assume that one is another Typo/oversight on FWs part (hope so because I bought Kheres for my Mortis precisely because of that BS5...)

[DrLove42]

I can't confirm now, I'm at work :P. I know Scatters are 5 points a piece. Hornets are the only Eldar thing thats not got significantly worse

As for the Contemptors....Mortis's were broken at BS5. Even at BS4, they're still twinlinked. You're probably getting at least 10-11 hits.

[Tyrendian]

no, the Kheres are not twin-linked sadly... I do aggree that BS5 was really powerful, it just feels weird that a regular Contemptor has the option to upgrade to BS5 while the Mortis doesn't (I'd be entirely fine with having to pay for it...)

[Archon Charybdis]

Wow, seriously, screw that. For a size decrease and a 75pt increase, it better be a damn Vortex weapon. Holy crapping christ on a cracker, why the need to nerf all the Eldar stuff into oblivion? Compare the Cobra to a Warhound, and it makes no damn sense.

[agosyb]

Hi, any information on the dark eldar tantalus? Any major changes to the guns or bladevanes?

[eldargal]

Apparently the cobra weapons still ignore void shields and the like. Which is a small pro against a lot of con.

[Aramel]

I think we need to consider some fairly drastic changes to the Apoc rules though. Str D is much more powerful than it was before, and every Eldar super-heavy can have at least one. All our super-heavy tanks are fast, meaning they show up turn 2 (value depending on when your breaks are), you can now cast psychic powers on super heavies (we have the best psychic buffs), and our holo-fields allow us to ignore half of all hits.

Finally, for 1 victory point, you can bring back any one model under 15hp, which means thore revenants are not going anywhere. Overall I would say that Eldar are in a very strong position with the new Apoc rules, and that the cost increase might actually be reasonable.

[Netrunnr]

I don't think the cost increases, coupled with the stat reductions are reasonable. Just compare a Revenant with a Warhound or a Reaver with the Phantom. Even a Shadowsword compares favorably against the "downgraded" Cobra...

[Aramel]

Except Imperial super-heavies have 0 protection against Str D, and void shields can easily be taken out. Against other weapons we have lower AV true, but many opportunities to avoid being shot at by using psychic powers, reserving, or using super heavy fliers. Also AV 14 does not exactly mean much to Eldar.

Although the Warhound is cheaper and has longer ranged weapons than the Revenant, this is trivial now that it can move 36" and still shoot. The Revenant will always be guided/prescienced (though it will rarely be needed vs Titans) and should comfortably take off 12hp/turn. Meanwhile, a Warhound will need to roll a 6 on the D table to take out a Revenant in one round of shooting. Assuming averages hold, a Revenant will have twice the firepower of a Warhound in a duel.

Currently the Imperium does not have a Titan in the Phantom's weight-class (and we are lacking a Reavers equivalent), so it's hard to compare the two. Sure it's annoying that the Reavers can potentially have 2 more Str D shots at 1k less points, I still think Holo-fields make all the difference. In the end only play testing will tell.

[Netrunnr]

yes, will have to see how the Holo-fields pan out. Though it it 50/50 at best to get a save most of the time. Not sure that is worth the points difference.

[Defenestratus]

yes, will have to see how the Holo-fields pan out. Though it it 50/50 at best to get a save most of the time. Not sure that is worth the points difference.

I just did the math, and Triumphus' imperator titan will on average, blow up one phantom titan per round plus two revenants. Holofields are ok but they don't really do much against the alpha strike like void shields do.

[Tyrendian]

Hi, any information on the dark eldar tantalus? Any major changes to the guns or bladevanes?

no big changes that I noticed... might be wrong though since I don't play DE myself so only had a cursory glance...

[Hendarion]

The Cobra is so useless compared to a Scorpion now and the Lynx is the worst jokes of all.

GW thought about the Revenant to change the shields, boost the movement insanely and increase it in points. 900 is pretty competitive imo, but not too low either.
Now if you compare it to the Lynx with half the shots, lower armour and far less hullpoints to the Revenant minus any significant movement (being a flyer is cool, but not being able to shoot is just ridiculous - they could have made it so that it can't fly 2 turns in a row, but being a full flyer for this one turn and it would have been awesome), one wonders where its points and armour come from. The Revenant movement is the primary ability to me - Sonic Lances. A Lynx with a Sonic Lance on the other hand is really a waste of points. AV11 with 4 HP is being glanced to death within a blink of an eye.
The Cobra is another joke. Ignoring shields is cool, but you can easily strip shields with everything else in your Eldar army. What really would have helped is increased damage to other vehicle's Hullpoints. Say an extra D3 or something. 675 points for it compared to a Revenant is very lacklustre. The reduced blast size even more. The residual effect is just lame, slows gameplay and is hard to track - so much effort for nearly no benefit - I'm sure I'm never going to keep track of it, because 6+ is so rarely, that I won't bother about markers for the blast's position or anything. I really don't know who invented it and I don't want to know, because else I might never forgive him. 10" was the only thing the Cobra really had been useful for. Otherwise you much better cover your target with the Scorpion.

What happened to the Vampires by the way (how much AV/HP/holo?)? Those still dish out D-hits and are flyers on top which makes them pretty hard to take down - they just lack maneuverability.

[DrLove42]

The two vampires are exactly as they were in the Aeronautica book.

Which is funny, cos SHF got much better in Apoc 2.0 as they're immune to most Strength D weapons

[Hendarion]

Not only that, but also penetrating hits are much less impressive to super heavies.

[Defenestratus]

The two vampires are exactly as they were in the Aeronautica book.

Which is funny, cos SHF got much better in Apoc 2.0 as they're immune to most Strength D weapons

They were pretty much immune in the last Apoc book as well as flyers in that book couldn't be hit by blast markers and most Str D are blasts.

[Archon Charybdis]

I think we need to consider some fairly drastic changes to the Apoc rules though. Str D is much more powerful than it was before, and every Eldar super-heavy can have at least one.

True enough, but that hasn't stopped The Warhound or Shadowsword from getting price reductions and or blast size buffs to go along with the improved D rules.


All our super-heavy tanks are fast, meaning they show up turn 2 (value depending on when your breaks are) That is a you can now cast psychic powers on super heavies (we have the best psychic buffs), and our holo-fields allow us to ignore half of all hits.

The coming in from Reserves sooner is a perk I hadn't considered, but it's kind of marginal given the magnitude of the points increase and the nerfing of the gun. And as to psychic buffs, Imperials have access to Prescience too, so I fail to see that as a particularly Eldar-centric change. Really, given that Imperial super-heavy tanks tend to come packed with weapon sponsons, they benefit from it more than the Eldar vehicles that have generally two weapons tops.


Finally, for 1 victory point, you can bring back any one model under 15hp, which means thore revenants are not going anywhere. Overall I would say that Eldar are in a very strong position with the new Apoc rules, and that the cost increase might actually be reasonable.

Once again, Imperials can do the exact same thing, with their Warhound titan which is almost 200pts cheaper, yet still quite equal to the Revenant all around.

[Hendarion]

Still, a Warhound doesn't have any protection from other D-weapons. So re-rolling saves ain't useful. I'm not sure that actually any psychic power would affect a Holo Field either, since it is not a save, it simply ignores penetrating (!) hits. No psychic power I know allows to re-roll a an ability that ignores a penetrating hit ;)

[DrLove42]

You can't reroll holofields on Titans, as its not a save.

[Defenestratus]

You can't reroll holofields on Titans, as its not a save.

Unless you house rule it to be what it should be, a 4+ save against everything, including D-weapons.

[Hendarion]

Since I play Apoc only in GW stores, not going to happen and maybe even incorrect bonus that GW never meant to be possible. You can house-rule everything, even your Cobra to have 10" and cost 400 points. Doesn't mean anything actually.

[Aramel]

Well sure imperials have psychers, but the Farseer Council formation is amazing. Forewarning/fortune/guide will be on all your titans. These are range 24" unlike Prescience.

[Archon Charybdis]

Still, a Warhound doesn't have any protection from other D-weapons.

It has void shields, which admittedly can be stripped beforehand, but against a D-weapon hit it's a 100% protection. Regardless, having a greater degree of protection from D-weapons is really cold comfort when autocannons and missile launchers can still mess up your day in a way they can't against a Warhound with it's AV14/13. There's really no justification for Eldar super-heavies like the Revenant and Cobra to be so ludicrously more expensive than their different but rather equal Imperial counterparts.



Well sure imperials have psychers, but the Farseer Council formation is amazing. Forewarning/fortune/guide will be on all your titans. These are range 24" unlike Prescience.

Forewarning/Fortune isn't going to help against D-weapons, and you're really not addressing the core issue of the general superiority of Imperial super-heavies to their Eldar counter-parts. If you were to put 500pts of Divination psykers backing up a Warhound, it'd perform better too.

[Aramel]

Powers counterbalance low armour, holo-fields protect against strength D. You are correct that Eldar super-heavies are more vulnerable to lower str weapons than AV 14 imperial super heavies. This is trivial for 2 reasons:

a) Holo-fiels are applied to all hits, if they fail, you still get to take saves. With 6 Farseers you should be able to keep at least two Titans with a 4+ rerollable invulnerable save. Not to mention that you can stick them in a Raider (that you can make invisible) to be even more mobile. Can't exactly do that with the Imperials.
b) We have so many lance and str 10 weapons, that we could care less about AV 14. Also void shields are a joke if you have volume of fire, such as a couple of wave serpents or reapers.

The main point is that Eldar super-heavies should be much more survivable than their Imperial counterparts, which should account for their higher cost.

[z3n1st]

How are you putting Farseers in a raider?

Even with blood brothers you cannot embark on the ally transports

[deinol]

A) Holo-fields aren't a save so the re-roll power doesn't help.

B) A unit should be costed for what it is, not what it could possibly be with another units help. The cost of the other unit should reflect how potent it's boost is.

[Aramel]

How are you putting Farseers in a raider?

Even with blood brothers you cannot embark on the ally transports

Page 15 "no allies restrictions apply."

Deniol, believe as you will. Fortune is for the 4+ invul you give with forewarning, which helps a great deal against "mundane" attacks. It's possible that you misunderstand how Holo-fields work; 1) roll to hit; 2) if hit, roll a D6. Assuming vehicle moved, the hit is ignored on a 1-3; 3) if a 4+ was rolled and the attack is not Str D, take your 4+ invul Or whatever cover save you might have; 4) If failed and fortuned, roll again.

Costs should absolutely take synergy into consideration...that is where internal balance comes from. If you have a meta where single players have models cherry-picked from 3-4 codexes it might become an issue. Some kind of pre-planning is expected though to avoid that. In any case, ignoring half of ALL hits is worth an extra couple hundred pts imo.

[Urtyfang]

I'll love you forever if you pm me or reply with the rules for the lifta droppa wagon :) Did it get upgraded to the lifta droppa rule in the apoc book or is it something else?

[Archon Charybdis]

Page 15 "no allies restrictions apply."

I should say in my digital copy all I can see is a couple statements that models from different codices can be taken in "a single force", and that all 0-1 type restrictions are lifted, nothing as specific as "no allies restrictions apply". At least in regards to players on the same team, it says the normal allies rules apply.

Assuming that's correct though, I'll thank you for invalidating your entire argument. Anything 500pts of Farseer can do for the Revenant, it can now do for a Warhound. There is no contextual justification for the Revenant's massive price difference.

[DrLove42]

OK. Even if you don't "ally". Wolves, Dark Angels and Grey Knights (and probably regular marines now too) all have access to Divination. So why aren't imperial titans 400 points more?

Theres simply no justification for it.


Squad of Long Fangs - 5 Missile Shots at a Revenant and a Warhound for two rounds

Against a Revenant (base). You get 4 hits, then 2 hits (holofields), which causes one hull point

Against a Warhound (base). You get 4 hits probability says all 4 are used to remove the 2 void shields. No damage to titan

2nd Round

Revenant. 4 hits, 2 hits, 1 hull point

Warhound. 4 hits (assuming re raised 1 shield), 2 hit him. 0.333 hull points removed.


Squad of CSM Havocs with 4 autocannons at a Revenant and a Warhound for two rounds

Against a Revenant (base). You get 6 hits, then 3 hits (holofields), which causes one hull point

Against a Warhound (base). You get 6 hits probability says all 6 are used to remove the 2 void shields. No damage to titan

2nd Round

Revenant. 6 hits, 3 hits, 1 hull point

Warhound. 6 hits (assuming re raised 1 shield), removes raised shield. Can't damage the titan


Squad of Devestators - 4 Las Cannon shots at a Revenant and a Warhound for two rounds

Against a Revenant (base). You get 3 hits, then 1.5 hits (holofields), which causes 0.9 hull points

Against a Warhound (base). You get 3 hits probability says all 3 are used to remove the 2 void shields. No damage to titan

2nd Round

Revenant. 3 hits, 1.5 hits, 0.9 hull point

Warhound. 3 hits (assuming re raised 1 shield), 2 hit him. 0.667 hull points removed.



Squad of War Walkers - 6 Bright Lance shots at a Revenant and a Warhound for two rounds

Against a Revenant (base). You get 4 hits, then 2 hits (holofields), which causes 1 hull points

Against a Warhound (base). You get 4 hits probability says all 4 are used to remove the 2 void shields. No damage to titan

2nd Round

Revenant. 4 hits, 2 hits, 1 hull point

Warhound. 4 hits (assuming re raised 1 shield), 2 hit him. 1 hull point removed.


The ONLY thing that a revenant is better at surviving than a Warhound is Strength D. Which makes up maybe 5-10% of weapons that will shoot at him. Factoring in survivability alone, there should not be such a large price difference

[Aramel]

I should say in my digital copy all I can see is a couple statements that models from different codices can be taken in "a single force", and that all 0-1 type restrictions are lifted, nothing as specific as "no allies restrictions apply". At least in regards to players on the same team, it says the normal allies rules apply.

Assuming that's correct though, I'll thank you for invalidating your entire argument. Anything 500pts of Farseer can do for the Revenant, it can now do for a Warhound. There is no contextual justification for the Revenant's massive price difference.

Read section 2, of the digital (Ipad) copy. As for psychers, at page 20 its stated that the ally matrix is optional for purposes of determining battle-brother or lower status. So if you have a problem with someone bringing a bunch of Farseers to buff his Imperial superheavies, you will have to agree that the matrix is in effect.

How is 180pts a "massive difference"? For that price difference, the Revenant moves 36", can still fire its weapons and doubles its survivability thanks to holo-fields. If you keep comparing the two in a vacum, void shields might make a difference, but they should never be significant in an actual game. You will have regularnweapons to take them out, an then use your pulsars to destroy the titan. Two glances on AV 12 is ludicrously easy to come by and once they are gone a Revenenant will on average deal 12hp in damage/turn to a Warhound, which will therefore mean it will almost always be destroyed in the first turn that it is shot at.

Meanwhile the Warhound would deal an average of 6hp to the Revenant. Protection from Str D is a huge deal, given that that is where most of the damage comes from.

[Defenestratus]

The ONLY thing that a revenant is better at surviving than a Warhound is Strength D. Which makes up maybe 5-10% of weapons that will shoot at him.

Its so funny to read about how different groups' meta is so vastly different than ours.

In our group, if you're shooting str D at something other than a titan, then you're wasting the shot. When one of my opponent's models puts out 27 D pie plates, then the Revenant takes A LOT of incoming fire. Last game I used it, we went first then it died in the first round to about 14 str D shots (it was lucky to absorb that much damage)

As for the void shield debate... there's no reason to be upset with the points increase on our titans when void shields continue to be pathetic - and now with worse regeneration rules.

Seriously in Apocalypse the best thing to take war walkers and nightwings for is to knock down void shields. We actually are going to house rule that you have to PEN void shields to get rid of them - at least then the imperial/chaos titans have a fighting chance of lasting a single turn. Right now this is how it works:

Warlord Strides into battle. Looks might impressive.
Shadow Walker formation pops up behind it - "HEY WHERE DID YOU BUGGERS COME FROM?"
Shadow walker formation fires its scatter lasers twice, resulting in 160 scatter laser shots ... (16 shots per walker, 10 walkers)
Warlord wonders where the hell all of its void shields just went! "OHHH YOU PESKY BUGGERS!!!!"
Phantom Titan across the board chuckles and proceeds to lay in 8 Str D AP1 (which doesn't matter now) templates. Chuckle turns into a MWUAAHAHAHAHAHAH
Warlord titan goes nuclear and explodes, killing the shadow walker formation :P
Ang'grath, being the cheesey ******* that he is, assaults the phantom and rips its arm off - proceeds to beat phantom over the head with own arm.

[DrLove42]

Most metas don't feature an Imperator :P

[Defenestratus]

Most metas don't feature an Imperator :P

Well.

They should :P

[Tyrendian]

Its so funny to read about how different groups' meta is so vastly different than ours.

In our group, if you're shooting str D at something other than a titan, then you're wasting the shot. When one of my opponent's models puts out 27 D pie plates, then the Revenant takes A LOT of incoming fire. Last game I used it, we went first then it died in the first round to about 14 str D shots (it was lucky to absorb that much damage)

As for the void shield debate... there's no reason to be upset with the points increase on our titans when void shields continue to be pathetic - and now with worse regeneration rules.

Seriously in Apocalypse the best thing to take war walkers and nightwings for is to knock down void shields. We actually are going to house rule that you have to PEN void shields to get rid of them - at least then the imperial/chaos titans have a fighting chance of lasting a single turn. Right now this is how it works:

Warlord Strides into battle. Looks might impressive.
Shadow Walker formation pops up behind it - "HEY WHERE DID YOU BUGGERS COME FROM?"
Shadow walker formation fires its scatter lasers twice, resulting in 160 scatter laser shots ... (16 shots per walker, 10 walkers)
Warlord wonders where the hell all of its void shields just went! "OHHH YOU PESKY BUGGERS!!!!"
Phantom Titan across the board chuckles and proceeds to lay in 8 Str D AP1 (which doesn't matter now) templates. Chuckle turns into a MWUAAHAHAHAHAHAH
Warlord titan goes nuclear and explodes, killing the shadow walker formation :P
Ang'grath, being the cheesey ******* that he is, assaults the phantom and rips its arm off - proceeds to beat phantom over the head with own arm.

Shadow Walker? Where's that one from? Care to share? sounds fun :)

Also, did anyone notice how ludicrous the Ork Kill Bursta tank is? its gun has a freaking 3D6 inch radius "roadsign" of a blast (are roadsigns even that big?...) at Baleflamer stats (minus ignores cover though, but still...), with almost Baneblade level defensive stats and at the cost of less than 120 Grotz...

[DrLove42]

Shadow walker was one GW put on their website.

3 x3 minimum war walker sqns.

Could deep strike, without scatter anywhere on the table and shoot all their guns twice the turn they turned up

[Defenestratus]

Shadow walker was one GW put on their website.

3 x3 minimum war walker sqns.

Could deep strike, without scatter anywhere on the table and shoot all their guns twice the turn they turned up

Worse

They didn't enter from reserve and they didn't deep strike. They just *showed up* like they were hiding in the bushes all along. This meant that distruption beacons didn't work on them and they didn't scatter. Only restriction is that the lead WW couldn't show up less than 12" away from an enemy model. Not tough on an apocalypse board.

Ultimate void shield annhilation force.

One squad of them were able to take out two warlords' worth of void shields in a single turn.

[eldargal]

Yep, best formation ever. Especially when you have 30 war walkers.

[Tyrendian]

anyone happen to still have those as PDFs or something? I downloaded some of their formations back in the day, but that one escaped me... most of those should still be valid with some minor tweaking I'd say, and I doubt many people would complain about more fun stuff do add to Apoc (at least not in my gaming group...)
just a thought: could we not (or maybe it already exists...) organize a way (Google Drive or Dropbox comes to mind...) to share those with BOLS readers?

[Defenestratus]

anyone happen to still have those as PDFs or something? I downloaded some of their formations back in the day, but that one escaped me... most of those should still be valid with some minor tweaking I'd say, and I doubt many people would complain about more fun stuff do add to Apoc (at least not in my gaming group...)
just a thought: could we not (or maybe it already exists...) organize a way (Google Drive or Dropbox comes to mind...) to share those with BOLS readers?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7loDoNi_m_yTk05cmswT3pYanM/edit?usp=sharing

One of the more flavorful formations:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7loDoNi_m_yR2JVWTAyZkxZcFk/edit?usp=sharing

And just for funzies:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9Rjth3xvgq_djVkSzRDMzhzVE0/edit?usp=sharing

[Tyrendian]

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7loDoNi_m_yTk05cmswT3pYanM/edit?usp=sharing

One of the more flavorful formations:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7loDoNi_m_yR2JVWTAyZkxZcFk/edit?usp=sharing

And just for funzies:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9Rjth3xvgq_djVkSzRDMzhzVE0/edit?usp=sharing

thanks a lot!

[Hendarion]

Outch. They not only reduced the Cobra's blast size, but also the range. This is a huge hit. I guess mine will stay in the shelve for quite some time.

[Defenestratus]

Outch. They not only reduced the Cobra's blast size, but also the range. This is a huge hit. I guess mine will stay in the shelve for quite some time.

As if 48" wasn't short ranged enough in Apoc - they made it shorter!?!

Holy hell. Why would I play apoc as an Eldar player ever again?

[Houghten]

Also, did anyone notice how ludicrous the Ork Kill Bursta tank is? its gun has a freaking 3D6 inch radius "roadsign" of a blast (are roadsigns even that big?...) at Baleflamer stats (minus ignores cover though, but still...), with almost Baneblade level defensive stats and at the cost of less than 120 Grotz...

So what you're saying is, it got nerfed.

[Libran'Ek]

They told on Facebook that you can use a D-canon for the Wraithseer instead of a Wraithcanon

Did anyone can told me if it´s already possible to put a scatterlaser on the lynx ? And how many HP it got ?

[Hendarion]

Yea, you can put a scatter, as you can on a Cobra. Although you wouldn't want a Cobra with that range and points any more. The Lynx got as many HP as always. 6 (it had 2 SP, x3 this makes 6).
Yet another weird thing: The Vampire Hunter has hover mode and is noted to not be able to use the super sonic rule while hovering. The Vampire Raider has no such restriction. C'mon Forge World, at least read the stuff you write at least once.

[Archon Charybdis]

As if 48" wasn't short ranged enough in Apoc - they made it shorter!?!

Holy hell. Why would I play apoc as an Eldar player ever again?

And I still have a Marine player in my group claiming it's just fine. Cause, you know, it's not like I could take a Warhound for about 45pts more and get way the hell more firepower at a significantly longer range (and arguably better survivable being as you can't take a powerfist or a melta bomb to the backside). Or, for over 200pts less you could take a Shadowsword, which is a 7'' blast itself now that comes with a whopping 12' (that's FEET) of range over the Cobra. Or, for 25pts more I can just take 5 damn fire prisms with holofields and use a Sunstorm. It's 6 more hullpoints overall with a better shooting effect, and even if you lose a few it's still a bunch of S9 AP1 Lances that don't have to get right in the face of whatever it's trying to shoot at.

[Tynskel]

yeah, but isn't the cobra indirect fire?

[Archon Charybdis]

yeah, but isn't the cobra indirect fire?

Yes, but I don't find that a particularly compelling advantage when as a category of weapons Destroyers already ignore cover. I suppose you could attempt to super-snipe HQs, but I think I'd rather just go the Warhound route and rely on my wealth of firepower to kill the whole rest of the unit anyway, and from a safe distance.

[Poseidal]

Yea, you can put a scatter, as you can on a Cobra. Although you wouldn't want a Cobra with that range and points any more. The Lynx got as many HP as always. 6 (it had 2 SP, x3 this makes 6).
Yet another weird thing: The Vampire Hunter has hover mode and is noted to not be able to use the super sonic rule while hovering. The Vampire Raider has no such restriction. C'mon Forge World, at least read the stuff you write at least once.
Worse than that, by having the supersonic mode it can't enter hover mode at all. It literally does nothing.

[DrLove42]

I hadn't noticed the drop in range for the Cobra

FFS

[Aramel]

Could someone with the book confirm that the Lynx does not have a normal Pulsar? Thanks.

[Libran'Ek]

Worse

They didn't enter from reserve and they didn't deep strike. They just *showed up* like they were hiding in the bushes all along. This meant that distruption beacons didn't work on them and they didn't scatter. Only restriction is that the lead WW couldn't show up less than 12" away from an enemy model. Not tough on an apocalypse board.

Ultimate void shield annhilation force.

One squad of them were able to take out two warlords' worth of void shields in a single turn.

Did you played it as standard 3unit separatly or as "Armoured Spearhead" or as "Battle formation" ?

I would played it tomorrow ^^ That was my favorite in 5th ed. :D

[Defenestratus]

Did you played it as standard 3unit separatly or as "Armoured Spearhead" or as "Battle formation" ?

I would played it tomorrow ^^ That was my favorite in 5th ed. :D

I used a single model as the lead War Walker (its actually an old school WW - the very first model that I bought and painted, yes its horrible) and then 4 squads of 3 walkers. The squads act independently from each other but usually they all fire at the imperator to take out its 12 void shields.

[Libran'Ek]

I used a single model as the lead War Walker (its actually an old school WW - the very first model that I bought and painted, yes its horrible) and then 4 squads of 3 walkers. The squads act independently from each other but usually they all fire at the imperator to take out its 12 void shields.

That´s logical ^^ I'm a little stupid some time �� but thank's

Played Vs I.G. And Orc,
It was really great to played it with the new walker rules, 7 walker full BL on a Baneblade made them cry first turn, and cry again on second turn by loosing the Orc Stompa !

Thank's again to remember us this unbelievable awesome formation !

[Bergermeister84]

Could someone with the book confirm that the Lynx does not have a normal Pulsar? Thanks.

The Lynx keeps the standard 2 shot Pulsar.