Lizardmen - What Have I Missed?

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm focussing on my Warmachine Khador at the moment, and will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future. I don't see myself paying $50 for an army book for a game that I'm not playing a lot of right now.

That said, I am curious to hear what the new Lizardmen army book has done to my faction so that when the time is right (probably some time later this year when I need a break from stompy robots tzarist soldiers and decide to paint some stompy dinosaurs and lizard soldiers) I'm not totally surprised.

Also, assuming I had a fairly average 2k collection (except for having two Slaan for some reason that made sense at the time), what sort of stuff am I likely going to have to buy to continue to play at that points level? Do I need more of anything? Or is my collection still pretty valid and I'll just be buying the new terradons and sun-laser-prism-on-his-back-dinosaur-thing because they're awesome?

[Cactus]

Dunno yet; it all looks pretty bad-*** right now.

It has made me want to dig out my lizards and put some fresh paint on my models.

[magickbk]

They are only up for preorder right now, so rules-wise it is still at the point of conjecture until this weekend, but I'd say what you have is probably safe, and you may want cool new things that you mentioned.

[ElectricPaladin]

They are only up for preorder right now...

See what I mean? Totally out of the loop. I'll bump this thread back up this weekend and see if anyone has any news.

[Neelam]

You could just trawl through the internet for the information like the rest of us do.....

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's my favourite miniatures wave of the last year or so. And that's a year which has seen a tremendous amount of good stuff. The new lizards rock socks. They're huge and characterful, and now two of the book's special characters are optional extras on the sprue of a damn plastic kit.

[pgarfunkle]

I will be picking up all on the new releases at some point but will probably start with a unit of Terradons and then have a look at how the new units function. I really want the trog purely because I love the model spitting poison!

I'm hoping that sticking a BSB skink on a Terradon is a viable option in the new book, Saturday is creeping closer very slowly at the moment

[ElectricPaladin]

I will be picking up all on the new releases at some point but will probably start with a unit of Terradons and then have a look at how the new units function. I really want the trog purely because I love the model spitting poison!

I'm hoping that sticking a BSB skink on a Terradon is a viable option in the new book, Saturday is creeping closer very slowly at the moment

I'm most excited about the bastilodon, myself. However, the fact that the carnasour is now available as a plastic or finecast model, as opposed to the enormous metal monstrocity it used to be, is making me think about getting a Saurus Lord/Hero on Carnasour. The troglodon is also neat, now that I see it, and the new terradons/ripperdactyls are far superior to the old ones.

I lucked out, actually. I don't own anything that's been one-upped by the new models. I have a ton of regular Saurus and temple guard Saurus, a smaller ton of Skinks, two salamanders, two Slaan (one of them a relic priest), and a hyper-magnetized stegadon. I never got around to getting terradon riders, something I am now very pleased about.

[Brakkart]

Yeah one of my housemates has a Lizardman army with a strong emphasis on fielding as many big stompy monsters in it as he can, so he is overjoyed with getting not only a plastic Carnosaur (he never liked the metal/finecast one so held off getting one) but 2 new big critters as well and plastic Terradons too. And there is the Lustria book coming from Warhammer Forge around the end of the year too, with no doubt some more dinosaurs and such critters in it as well. I actually feel sorry for his wallet!

[ElectricPaladin]

My only problem is that my local Fantasy community is dedicated to the hardcore/competitive/serious playstyle. There's nothing wrong with that playstyle, but I'm not sure how well I'd be received as a relative newbie (I own a bunch of lizards, but I've only played a handful of times). I'll probably give it a shot, anyway. Can't hurt.

[el_tigre]

Worth noting that High Magic is finally available, after several editions of claiming world magical supremacy and then being forced to hide every time a high elf prances by.

[ElectricPaladin]

Worth noting that High Magic is finally available, after several editions of claiming world magical supremacy and then being forced to hide every time a high elf prances by.

This is good. The two things I liked most about lizardmen have always been "lots of magic" and "giant stompy dinosaur monsters."

[magickbk]

My only problem is that my local Fantasy community is dedicated to the hardcore/competitive/serious playstyle. There's nothing wrong with that playstyle, but I'm not sure how well I'd be received as a relative newbie (I own a bunch of lizards, but I've only played a handful of times). I'll probably give it a shot, anyway. Can't hurt.

My experience is that these types of groups are usually small, and have a tendency to not bring in new players. Your mission should be to build an army that completely messes up their meta, and throw the group into chaos.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think the biggest problem with the new Lizardmen models is the prices. Some of them are reasonable - $60 for a blastilodon or a trio of skinks-on-flyers is pretty ok - but $85 for the carnosaur? What are they thinking? There's no way I can afford that. It's going to have to wait until I can get it cheap/used on eBay.

[magickbk]

I think the biggest problem with the new Lizardmen models is the prices. Some of them are reasonable - $60 for a blastilodon or a trio of skinks-on-flyers is pretty ok - but $85 for the carnosaur? What are they thinking? There's no way I can afford that. It's going to have to wait until I can get it cheap/used on eBay.

Don't look at the price tag on the Eldar Wraithknight.

[ElectricPaladin]

Don't look at the price tag on the Eldar Wraithknight.

I wasn't planning to.

The flyer, maybe. I'm not fond of the wraithknight. Too techy. In general, I like how Eldar stuff looks kind of fantasy-ish. You know - their guns are elegant and extended and look kind of likes swords. Their force field things look like stylized shields. The wraithknight looks too much like a giant robot. If I decide I have to have one, I'll make one myself.

[Wildeybeast]

I think the biggest problem with the new Lizardmen models is the prices. Some of them are reasonable - $60 for a blastilodon or a trio of skinks-on-flyers is pretty ok - but $85 for the carnosaur? What are they thinking? There's no way I can afford that. It's going to have to wait until I can get it cheap/used on eBay.

Personally, I thought it was reasonable (by GW standards). You can build three different models out of it, one of which is a SC, as well as a foot character. The flyers are excellent value, you get two possible unit builds, a generic hero or a SC. All still massively overpriced for bits of plastic, but a step in the right direction by GW standards. I hope we see more of the inclusion of SC's in standard units.

[ElectricPaladin]

Personally, I thought it was reasonable (by GW standards). You can build three different models out of it, one of which is a SC, as well as a foot character. The flyers are excellent value, you get two possible unit builds, a generic hero or a SC. All still massively overpriced for bits of plastic, but a step in the right direction by GW standards. I hope we see more of the inclusion of SC's in standard units.

I never thought that a kit's versatility - unless it's built in such a way that magnetizing it is a serious possibility - is a good reason to increase the price.

I'm two-thirds in agreement with you. The blastilodon and the flying dino boxes are great. The carnosaur is just too much.

EDIT: That said, I don't think I'll end up having to pay full price for a carnosaur kit. With the geek tax (the tax you pay for getting it right away) it's in the $70ish range. If I wait until it's old hat, I'm betting I can get it for $60. If I wait a year, I can get them used for even less.

EDIT 2: Additionally, I'm not so into Saurus leaders. I prefer my Lizardmen lists as monster/magician delivery services.

[Wildeybeast]

I'm not saying versatility should have much bearing on price either (especially as ultimately you can only build one model out of it) but it is better value than say, the Riptide, which at the same price gives you much less versatility. Not fantastic, but a step in right direction.

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm not saying versatility should have much bearing on price either (especially as ultimately you can only build one model out of it) but it is better value than say, the Riptide, which at the same price gives you much less versatility. Not fantastic, but a step in right direction.

That's a good point, actually. I suppose if I were getting wargames models as, say, presents from an ignorant non-nerd friend or family member, I'd rather get a second new carnosaur multikit than, say, a second riptide.

[eldargal]

If I didn't HATE painting saurusii I'd be all over this release, always loved Lizardmen.

[Cactus]

If I didn't HATE painting saurusii I'd be all over this release, always loved Lizardmen.

Yeah, and you really need a hoard of saurus - which aren't bad troops - but I'd build a list with a hoard of temple guard and a hoard of saurus.

[ElectricPaladin]

Yeah, and you really need a hoard of saurus - which aren't bad troops - but I'd build a list with a hoard of temple guard and a hoard of saurus.

I'm pretty fond of saurusii, myself. The models are so deeply textured that they take quickshade really well. On all my other armies, I've stopped using quickshade, but with Lizardmen models it's still so good...

But, yeah. As I understand it, Lizardmen armies basically use a ton of Saurus and temple guardian Saurus to deliver monsters and Slann to the enemy lines. There's also the alternate build where you field an enormous swarm of Skinks and use them to deliver giant monsters. Either way, it's all about the troop swarms and the giant monsters.

[eldargal]

I love saurusii, just hated painting it. If you have a method for quick and easy painting I'd like to hear it.:)

[ElectricPaladin]

I love saurusii, just hated painting it. If you have a method for quick and easy painting I'd like to hear it.:)

Sure. There's this product: Armypainted Quickshade. It's basically floor wax. It works like a wash that's also a varnish; additionally, it's so heavy that it can dry in thicker layers. In other words it does a lot of the shading work for you. You can "flat paint" a model by creating all the areas of color - and you don't have to be too careful about the details, because the quickshade will cover that up - and then either dip the model in the gunk and shake off the extra or paint it on. The gunk flows into all the cracks and crevasses, clings to the undersides of limbs, and generally acts just like you want a shadow to act.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind, though.

Firstly, it's a bit of a crapshoot. You never really know what you're going to get. If you're lucky, it will look great: if you're unlucky, or screw up, you might have a model where part of it is drowned in solidified sludge. You can mitigate this if you babysit (check in every twenty minutes or so) the models for the first couple of hours after you apply the quickshade.

Second, the quickshade is only one color. It's more versatile than, say, Angarax Earthshade (or Nuln Oil), because it can dry both thicker and thinner, but the end result isn't that far from just dumping Devlan Mud on your model. It will work really well for anything in reds and browns, less well - but still passably - for blues and greens, as long as they are supposed to be organic-looking. Anything inorganic - like a glow effect - will look pretty poor.

You do have options for quickshade. It comes in dark brown, mid brown, and pale grey.

A final benefit of quickshade: you can easily paint on top of it. I always follow up the quickshade with some drybrushing and then a matte varnish, which also deals with the fact that quickshade has a very shiny finish. I suppose you could also paint your OSL effects on top of the quickshade, so the quickshade doesn't drown them out.

Anyway, it's basically a great strategy for painting huge masses of troops very quickly. I don't use it much anymore, but it really boosted my confidence when I first started out. I'm going to experiment with painting my lizardmen without it, but as I wrote above, with all their deeply modeled details, they are particularly well-suited to quickshade. It helps that my Saurus are all red-brown with bright red scales scattered on their backs, so the quickshade looks really good on them!

[eldargal]

That used to be called dipping or something didnt it? I'm aware of that sort of approach. Thinking more along the lines of relying on dry-brushing and washes and perhaps not worrying so much about different skin tones. Keep the flesh one colour, drybrush highlights, scales another colour, drybrush highlights. Wash shade, touch up the face with some actual layering. you know, I should actually just try this instead of grumping about Saurus painting hate.:p

[magickbk]

I tend to recommend against the quickshade methods because, as was mentioned, it can be difficult to control, or know what you are going to get. A lot of it has to do with colors, and the realization that quickshade is really only appropriate for certain color patterns and/or effects.

When painting lizardmen, the best thing you can do is carefully figure out your color scheme ahead of time, and find ways to simplify the method. For example, let's say I wanted blue-green skin with purple scales on the back. The fastest way to get that color scheme effectively would be to spray the model with sotek green, paint the scales with your preferred purple, and then wash the entire model with a watered down mixture of drakenhof nightshade, coelia greenshade, and a little bit of nuln oil. Afterwards you do a little highlight on some of the scales, a little highlight on key areas like the face, and then do your weapons and details.

It also depends on everyone's personal painting standard, though. If you want every rank-and-file to be studio quality, then there is no magic fix, but you can get a high standard pretty quickly.

[eldargal]

Usually I'm happy to put the time in to paint my models 'properly' but my saurus test drove me insane. All those scales, just for rank and file, not even a proper dragon or something...

[ElectricPaladin]

Usually I'm happy to put the time in to paint my models 'properly' but my saurus test drove me insane. All those scales, just for rank and file, not even a proper dragon or something...

This is my feeling on the matter. Fantasy calls for so damn many soldiers... and they're just going to sit in rank-and-file trays, so you won't be able to see the details on them, anyway. I think quickshade is a great solution for fantasy.

[Deadlift]

Usually I'm happy to put the time in to paint my models 'properly' but my saurus test drove me insane. All those scales, just for rank and file, not even a proper dragon or something...

These were painted and then dipped in quick shade a couple years ago. Not used it since admittedly but thought I would share for you EG

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab3/joenortonjones/IMG_6470.jpg

[Cactus]

This is my feeling on the matter. Fantasy calls for so damn many soldiers... and they're just going to sit in rank-and-file trays, so you won't be able to see the details on them, anyway. I think quickshade is a great solution for fantasy.

Quickshade isn't bad, but the improved GW washes also help. For my rank and file, I give a base coat, block out the details like loincloth, weapon, etc., a touch of a dry brush to help pick things like the scales out, then a good brown-black wash.

[Deadlift]

Personally I have starting using oil paints to make my own washes. I like this technique because of the longer "open" time where you can clean up any mistakes with white spirit on a cotton bud. Only downside is you have to varnish the model 1st.

[eldargal]

Those come out rather well Deadlift.:) I forgot I was going to do a test model yesterday so I'll try and remember to do it today.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Those come out rather well Deadlift.:) I forgot I was going to do a test model yesterday so I'll try and remember to do it today.
But you won't show us anyway... :(

[NockerGeek]

My 6-year-old daughter decided that she wants "to paint minis like you do, Daddy", and we agreed to start with a box of Saurus Warriors (since she loves dinosaurs, Lizardmen were an easy sell). I'm probably just going to start her off with the basics of basecoat/wash/drybrush, since it doesn't require too much finesse but still looks decent, and after that I can teach her simple details.

Mind you, I have no idea if she'd ever want to actually play (and I'm mostly a 40K player anyway), but I do have the beginnings of a High Elf army, so you never know...

[Mr Mystery]

Thanks to their textures and general lack of clothing, Lizardmen do take drybrushing really well!

We expect pics!

[NockerGeek]

I warn you, they will be purple - not because of any Barney connection, but because purple is her favorite color. I'm sure I can get her to splash in a different color for the shields, though. :)

[magickbk]

I warn you, they will be purple - not because of any Barney connection, but because purple is her favorite color. I'm sure I can get her to splash in a different color for the shields, though. :)

When I worked for GW, we tried to work purple into some details on every army we painted. No one knows why, the tradition had started before any of us were there. I vote Sotek Green for the shields.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I warn you, they will be purple - not because of any Barney connection, but because purple is her favorite color. I'm sure I can get her to splash in a different color for the shields, though. :)

To be fair, I would too. Purple is the best colour ever.

On every army that I have done there is always some purple on them.