Mephiston: Transfixing Gaze

[Samurai_Sugar]

Transfixing gaze: How does this work now, I'm being told that I can't re-roll anything as I can't choose who I combat if I'm not in a challenge. Thank you for your help.

[Nabterayl]

What you said is literally untrue, but I think I know what whoever told you that means. While Transfixing Gaze itself is perfectly targetable, the follow-up swings of the sword are not - unless you can manage your charge so that the IC is the only model in base contact with Mephiston, or you get him involved in a challenge with an enemy IC.

First off, "At the start of the Fight sub-phase, Mephiston can attempt to enthral [sic] a single enemy independent character in base contact" still means just that - if Mephiston happens to be in base contact with an enemy IC, he can use Transfixing Gaze on that IC. If he happens to be in base contact with more than one, he can choose. If he's deemed to be in base contact (as in a challenge), then he can use it on his challenge opponent. So the power itself still works just fine, and you get to decide which eligible enemy IC it is directed against.

However, you don't get to decide who Mephiston's attacks are directed against. Assuming there are multiple enemy models who are tied for "closest" with Mephiston, your opponent gets to decide who he actually he hits (unless he's in a challenge, as you correctly note).

So suppose we have a situation where Mephiston is in base contact with an ork warboss and two ork boyz. Mephiston can use Transfixing Gaze on the warboss, because he's in base contact. If the warboss fails his Leadership test, any attacks from Mephiston allocated to the warboss will re-roll misses and failed wounds. Now, Mephiston's attacks must be allocated against the closest model - nobody gets any choice in that. In this case, there are three models tied for closest, though, and your opponent gets to decide who the lucky ork is. If he chooses the warboss, then Transfixing Gaze will kick in. Assuming he doesn't (and why would he?), then Mephiston's attacks go to whoever is chosen.

[Magpie]

Fortunately, well for Mephiston anyway, his I7 will give him a degree of "manoeuvrability" on the pile in so he can pretty much choose who he is in base contact with and his Force Sword is likely to winnow down the prospective candidates in base contact pretty quick.

[daboarder]

Fortunately, well for Mephiston anyway, his I7 will give him a degree of "manoeuvrability" on the pile in so he can pretty much choose who he is in base contact with and his Force Sword is likely to winnow down the prospective candidates in base contact pretty quick.

That makes no sense magpie.

Mephiston is a unit of 1, for him to be in combat he must have reached an enemy model by the shortest route possible when charging, or been reached by the closest enemy model doing the same, as such he doesn't get a pile in move as he is already in B2B. The exception being if this is a second round of combat of course.

[Magpie]

You don't think an astute player seeking to take out the warboss won't set himself in a position where the warboss is the nearest ?
It's pretty easy to move a circle into contact with another circle and not be touching any other nearby circles because circles have a single point of contact.
His high initiative means that often the multiple enemies in base contact won't come up as his attacks take place before they pile in.

[chicop76]

I am away from my codex, but if I remember correctly IC's can't really avoid combat like that unless they are out side of the assault roll. Like if they are wayy in the back for example.

However if you assault a model and if you are 3" away from that IC than that IC will have to come in base anyway.

I really don't see it as a big deal either way. If for example you have model x that can hurt you and the rest of the unit will have a hard time doing so. You gaze X and issue a challenge. If X declines you now can lay waste to the unit. If X accepts he is fighting you solo with re rolls, also with some negatives.

The only issue thi is really important would be like a paladin squad with draigo. However do you really want to solo draigo even with gaze in effect.

[Magpie]

I am away from my codex, but if I remember correctly IC's can't really avoid combat like that unless they are out side of the assault roll. Like if they are wayy in the back for example.

How is he avoiding combat? He's simply moving (in the movement phase) so that when he charges the closest model will be the one he wants to transfix.
Multiple enemies in base contact with a single model after a charge is more or less impossible.

And no Draigo would be a bad move. 4 x S10 force weapon attacks and having to wait until I1 before you can hit back .......

[chicop76]

How is he avoiding combat? He's simply moving (in the movement phase) so that when he charges the closest model will be the one he wants to transfix.
Multiple enemies in base contact with a single model after a charge is more or less impossible.

And no Draigo would be a bad move. 4 x S10 force weapon attacks and having to wait until I1 before you can hit back .......

Not saying Mephiston would do that. I was talking about Indepenant Characters who like to hide in the squads. Also Mephiston is not an IC.

Since Mephiston is not an IC= Independant Character I realy don't see how you can be confused with me saying Mehiston is trying to hide in his squad since he can't do it to begin with.

[Magpie]

I realy don't see how you can be confused with me saying Mehiston is trying to hide in his squad since he can't do it to begin with.

Because I was talking about Mephiston manoeuvring to gain advantage and didn't mention the IC.
I don't understand how the enemy IC might be considered to be hiding.

[chicop76]

Because I was talking about Mephiston manoeuvring to gain advantage and didn't mention the IC.
I don't understand how the enemy IC might be considered to be hiding.

Ok. Let me explain.

Let's say you have a commisar lord in a blob squad with a power fist. You don't want to challenge so you can hit Meph with the fist. Meph would wat to challenge your lord since he doesn't like getting hit with a powerfist. You do not want gaze to work on your lord, so you keeep him wayyyyy in the back. Guard players typically try to keep their characters out of combat. Especially commissars.

[Magpie]

Yes I get that but where in the thread previous to now has that concept been mentioned?

I am trying to understand what "...IC's can't really avoid combat like that ..." means, in context of what was said previously.

[daboarder]

You don't think an astute player seeking to take out the warboss won't set himself in a position where the warboss is the nearest ?
It's pretty easy to move a circle into contact with another circle and not be touching any other nearby circles because circles have a single point of contact.
His high initiative means that often the multiple enemies in base contact won't come up as his attacks take place before they pile in.

You think an astute player isn't going to be ringing that warboss in boys?

lets think of it this way, if the warboss is completely ringed by say 8 boys in a regular fashion, you need to kill roughly 3 or 4 of them from the same direction as mephiston before the warboss can become the closest to him.

edit: furthermore your post wasn't about positioning mephiston but about his pile in. But please, continue to change your argument, I mean anything to prevent being wrong about toy soldiers.

[Magpie]

"his I7 will give him a degree of "manoeuvrability" on the pile in"

That really makes no mention of Mephiston piling in tho' does it. I means he can ... engineer, guide, use to his advantage, "manoeuvre", the pile in principles.

I apologise for not writing it in a manner you can understand.

[chicop76]

You think an astute player isn't going to be ringing that warboss in boys?

lets think of it this way, if the warboss is completely ringed by say 8 boys in a regular fashion, you need to kill roughly 3 or 4 of them from the same direction as mephiston before the warboss can become the closest to him.

edit: furthermore your post wasn't about positioning mephiston but about his pile in. But please, continue to change your argument, I mean anything to prevent being wrong about toy soldiers.

You have to try to move your character towards Meph as soon as you are able too.

[Magpie]

You have to try to move your character towards Meph as soon as you are able too.

The problem is that by the time that happens, Mephiston has already attacked and opened up a path to himself. So the nerf of the ring of boys has already had the desired effect.

[daboarder]

You have to try to move your character towards Meph as soon as you are able too.

which unless the character is a higher I is WELL after mephiston has done his thing....

[DarkLink]

I apologise for not writing it in a manner you can understand.

But daboarder is still right, for a single model unit, it doesn't really matter when you Pile In, because you're always going to be in base contact before Pile In happens so you don't get Pile In.

[Magpie]

But daboarder is still right, for a single model unit, it doesn't really matter when you Pile In, because you're always going to be in base contact before Pile In happens so you don't get Pile In.

Yeh I know but I wasn't talking about that I was meaning that Mephiston can use the fact that he attacks before just about anyone piles in, to his advantage.

[daboarder]

Ok. Let me explain.

Let's say you have a commisar lord in a blob squad with a power fist. You don't want to challenge so you can hit Meph with the fist. Meph would wat to challenge your lord since he doesn't like getting hit with a powerfist. You do not want gaze to work on your lord, so you keeep him wayyyyy in the back. Guard players typically try to keep their characters out of combat. Especially commissars.

so mephy challenges, guard player declines.....guard player does not get to swing? sure he doesn't die....but mephy is just going to do the same thing next turn, the guard players isn't going to get to swing till he takes a risk of getting brutalised.

[Magpie]

Yep Mephiston is just going to keep challenging until all the characters are dead.

If you could stall his challenges by either refusing them or throwing other characters at him, who can't be gazed, until your turn.
Probably better to sacrifice a Sergeant or something so you can still use the Ld 10 of the Lord when you lose combat due to Mephiston eating the Guardsman

You can have him do his Gaze prior to you declaring a challenge on him.

If you are in a guard blob there is a pretty good chance that you'll get to re-roll everything (provided it's only Mephiston in the combat). You're chances of taking him out are still slim but better than before even if only slightly.

[chicop76]

Yep Mephiston is just going to keep challenging until all the characters are dead.

If you could stall his challenges by either refusing them or throwing other characters at him, who can't be gazed, until your turn.
Probably better to sacrifice a Sergeant or something so you can still use the Ld 10 of the Lord when you lose combat due to Mephiston eating the Guardsman


You can have him do his Gaze prior to you declaring a challenge on him.

If you are in a guard blob there is a pretty good chance that you'll get to re-roll everything (provided it's only Mephiston in the combat). You're chances of taking him out are still slim but better than before even if only slightly.

If said squad have power axes it is best to decline the challenge. I see bloodthirsters die this way. However an iron arm Meph would be a differant story and it may force the unit to accept.

[Magpie]

There are a million variables to the situation for sure.

[daboarder]

If said squad have power axes it is best to decline the challenge. I see bloodthirsters die this way. However an iron arm Meph would be a differant story and it may force the unit to accept.

Why would mephiston possibly be afraid of a S4 Ap2 I1 weapon on a squishy guardsman? He'll cream the bloke without batting an eyelash.

[Tyrendian]

Why would mephiston possibly be afraid of a S4 Ap2 I1 weapon on a squishy guardsman? He'll cream the bloke without batting an eyelash.

except there is no "the bloke" because it won't be a challenge - and all but one of the axes (the one who declined the challenge) gets to swing at him, which by sheer weight of numbers will do some damage... and there's plenty of guys to die before Mephy gets at the axes so they will have multiple go's at him

[Magpie]

How many guys with axes have you got tho' ?

Hitting on 4's at best, wounding on 6's and you have 5 wounds to get through, that's what 60 odd attacks before you kill him ?