Eldar Movement In 6th Edition

[Prince Nuada]

Hi all!

Looking at 6E Eldar I admit that I am slightly underwhelmed.
Although I can see that a lot of what was broken/outdated has been fixed/updated, I can't help but feel that apart from adding the Spiritseer, Wraithblades and the Wraith Knight, that not much has changed in terms of synergy. I'm not a dedicated Eldar player (I plan to use them as allies) and so no doubt plenty of fans are pleased with this.

Now I know plenty of people were hoping GW would give the Eldar something resembling the Dark Eldar Venom which would allow units like Howling Banshees to assault out of their transports and therefore do their job efficently. But to many a disappointed "awww" this didn't happen.

What did happen is two things:

1) Waveserpents are now a lot more solid than they used to be. Their serpent shield actually does what it says on the tin and additionally doubles as a 60" weapon. Yes they come with a hefty price tag (for a dedicated transport) but they're essentially a fast devilfish boasting more firepower than a razorback without loosing any transport capacity.

2) Most Eldar infantry (excepting Wraithguard, Wraitblades and for some stupid reason Harlequins) now have Battle Focus in addition to Fleet. This of course means that Guardians can overcome their 12" range deficiency by moving, running and then shooting (albeit without firing their heavy weapon) or that Dire Avengers can fire and run (retreat). This also makes Warp Spiders the kings of movement, capable of moving, running, shooting and retreating all in the same turn, as well as their teleporting warp jump ability.
But what I really want to examine is how this effects assault units (Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions or even Storm Guardians). Without an open-topped or assault transport, such infantry must dismount (most likely coming under fire) and need to wait until their next turn before they can move.

So what tactics can we use to get assault units (and here I'm really talking about units like Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions and Storm Guardians) into combat with minimum casualties?

Thoughts anybody?

[Tyrendian]

main thing: just dont bother... just shoot the ever living hell out of your opponent while using your mobility to avoid return fire...
Scorps can work due to infiltrate, stealth and their 3+, but I wouldn't bother trying to get the other two you mentioned at the enemies throat... banshees work just fine as a cheap counter-assault element though...

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Edit: ignore me, misunderstood. :)

[Lost Vyper]

What´s your main army? If you need speed, get 2 x 3 Windrider Jetbikes + a Farseer on a bike for HQ = about 230p ish points...and for some outflanking fun, 3 x War Walkers with fe. Scatter Laser + Brightlance = 210p. They´ll deal with anything thrown their way...until stuck in CC...

[GravesDisease]

Why can't guardians fire the heavy weapon? I thought the platform was relentless

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It is Relentless. I think they can fire it.

[Prince Nuada]

I can't find anywhere where it says heavy weapon platforms are relentless?
You could pull it off with a Shuriken Cannon as it is an assault weapon.

[Stone Edwards]

I can't find anywhere where it says heavy weapon platforms are relentless?
You could pull it off with a Shuriken Cannon as it is an assault weapon.

It's under the vaul's gifts section (I think) near the end of the war gear descriptions. The platform and any unit firing it has relentless. Sorry can't remember the pg #, 69 maybe?

Edit: almost had it, page 66, treasures of vaul

[Prince Nuada]

Huh. :confused: Do you know, I believe you are right. Astounding.
I thought I looked there. They could have referenced the page number in the Guardians entry.
Anyway, thanks for that. :rolleyes:

[Roadkill Zombie]

Well, since no one seems to be answering your origional question with things other than "don't bother" I'm going to tell you the secret to Assult based Eldar.

Eldar are the kind of army that you cannot just take a bunch of stuff together and hope it works. You have to plan out your playstyle with them. For many, this means taking things like the new Wraith units. Now if you look online you will see that there are a few playstyles that a lot of people find fun to play with Eldar.

First is a Saim Hann style list where they take lots of models on jetbikes. They use their mobility to try to outflank and hit you in areas you are weak, then speed off to cover or line of sight blocking terrain so your return attacks cannot damage them so much.

Next is Iyanden Wraith armies. These are the kind of armies that use a lot of Wraith models to get high toughness models marching into your face and try to destroy you with extremely deadly weapons like Wraithcannons or D scythes. They can withstand a fair amount of firepower but are slow moving.

Next is your Ulthwe/Iyanden based Wave Serpent armies. These armies usually consist of a number of Guardians/Wraithguard/Wraithblades in wave serpents. People usually use either Farseers or Spiritseers to support these models and they basically use the Wave Serpents to shoot you from long range all day and then rush up in later turns to clear/claim objectives.

Notice how all of these use a style of play that requires certain models to be taken? That's sort of how you have to play Eldar.

Anyway, if you want assult based Eldar then you should probably try to go with the Biel Tan/Ulthwe Wave Serpent assult force.

Since Eldar is not your main force however I will just tell you briefly how to get Eldar into assult using a force like this.

I'm going to make a few assumptions here. First, you don't want to use your Eldar as counter assulters. Instead, you want them to be your main assult force. If this is the case, then have a look at the weapon types in the Codex. Notice how there are a ton of pinning weapons in there. And also notice how the spiritseers can gain access to a spell that modifies leadership (Horrify), and a spell that takes fearless away (Terrify). Notice also how Eldar have the new flyer that makes people re roll morale checks and can also cast Terrify. These are the tools to use if you want assult based Eldar.

Basically you need to pin/blind the models you want to assult so your models can withstand the firepower that will be directed at them. You also need to put them in Wave Serpents so they will have the speed to get to where they need to be. You will have to keep the enemy pinned down long enough for your units to get out of their vehicles and get themselves ready for an assult. To do this you need to have the right models in place. It isn't easy and doesn't always work, hence why a lot of people say don't bother.

[Lost Vyper]

Again...
What´s your main army?

[Prince Nuada]

Well, since no one seems to be answering your origional question with things other than "don't bother" I'm going to tell you the secret to Assult based Eldar.

Eldar are the kind of army that you cannot just take a bunch of stuff together and hope it works. You have to plan out your playstyle with them. For many, this means taking things like the new Wraith units. Now if you look online you will see that there are a few playstyles that a lot of people find fun to play with Eldar.

First is a Saim Hann style list where they take lots of models on jetbikes. They use their mobility to try to outflank and hit you in areas you are weak, then speed off to cover or line of sight blocking terrain so your return attacks cannot damage them so much.

Next is Iyanden Wraith armies. These are the kind of armies that use a lot of Wraith models to get high toughness models marching into your face and try to destroy you with extremely deadly weapons like Wraithcannons or D scythes. They can withstand a fair amount of firepower but are slow moving.

Next is your Ulthwe/Iyanden based Wave Serpent armies. These armies usually consist of a number of Guardians/Wraithguard/Wraithblades in wave serpents. People usually use either Farseers or Spiritseers to support these models and they basically use the Wave Serpents to shoot you from long range all day and then rush up in later turns to clear/claim objectives.

Notice how all of these use a style of play that requires certain models to be taken? That's sort of how you have to play Eldar.

Anyway, if you want assult based Eldar then you should probably try to go with the Biel Tan/Ulthwe Wave Serpent assult force.

Since Eldar is not your main force however I will just tell you briefly how to get Eldar into assult using a force like this.

I'm going to make a few assumptions here. First, you don't want to use your Eldar as counter assulters. Instead, you want them to be your main assult force. If this is the case, then have a look at the weapon types in the Codex. Notice how there are a ton of pinning weapons in there. And also notice how the spiritseers can gain access to a spell that modifies leadership (Horrify), and a spell that takes fearless away (Terrify). Notice also how Eldar have the new flyer that makes people re roll morale checks and can also cast Terrify. These are the tools to use if you want assult based Eldar.

Basically you need to pin/blind the models you want to assult so your models can withstand the firepower that will be directed at them. You also need to put them in Wave Serpents so they will have the speed to get to where they need to be. You will have to keep the enemy pinned down long enough for your units to get out of their vehicles and get themselves ready for an assult. To do this you need to have the right models in place. It isn't easy and doesn't always work, hence why a lot of people say don't bother.

Thanks for taking the time to write such a thorough and informative response. :D


Again...

Sorry. I play Tau (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?34518-Prince-Nuada-s-Tau-Empire-Eldar-Allies).

[Da Gargoyle]

My tactics in 5th Ed used to be a two pronged approach. A couple of wave serpents with Storm Guardian and either Banshee or Scorpions for a flat out move across the table and dismount next turn and assault. While one or two Guardian squads with weapons platform covering or holding an objective and most likely a Pathfinder unit or Wraith Lord. There was always a risk with the assault component of the force as you rely on the cover save from high speed movement prior to dismount, but it was fun seeing the other guy sweat.

With the new rules and codex, it will be Scorpions for the most part and the pretty Banshees will sit on the shelf. Also it will be turn 3 that any assault occurs because you can't dismount and assault same turn, (In ed 5 you could if the serpent had not moved that turn). The annoying thing is you can't assault the same turn you came on in a flanking move. But the move shoot move can be a bonus. I think flamers for my Storm Guardians and it is nice to see assault grenades available to them now. Disappointed with the change to Mandi Blasters rule though. I used to use that with my Autarch who ran with the Guardians. I'll probably lose the Rangers and use Shuriken Cannon for the Guardian platforms.

The alternative is a defensive style army with lots of Guardians supported by assault troops and say a squadron of jet bikes for a late charge on objectives. One of your HQ choices in this scenario becomes the Avatar with his inspiring presence and penchant for chopping anything up that gets to close. The Wraith Lord is handy, mine is kitted with flamers and what was a wraith sword, now a glaive I suppose. Don't know why he cost so much more in the new codex given he lost on stat's and his weapon options cost heaps more. And see if you can't squeeze in some Dark Reapers. Difficult at anything less than 1500 points though.

I must admit I have never been that good with psyker powers and it looks even more unreliable now. I have no idea why you would have to randomise the powers you get. (Take it as wrote that I vented on the codex author here). And it seemed unfair that any Warlock assigned to another unit was assigned first and then randomised his psyk power. It probably means you will see more of the psyker characters on the table as you know what you get and can plan for that.

[Da Gargoyle]

By the way, has anyone else experienced this. The wave serpent move is now a two step process. Max move allowed in the normal movement phase and then move flat out in the shooting phase. So I was in a game where my normal move, at cruising speed ended up in difficult terrain and then I moved flat out in the shooting phase. My opponent then pointed out that I needed to take two dangerous terrain tests. One for ending my move in dangerous terrain, and another for starting the flat out phase in dangerous terrain. We called in the GW bod to adjudicate and he sided with the other guy.

Anyone got a comment.

[Lost Vyper]

i think it´s one check/terrain/turn? This is how we play it at our FLGC and it works. Next turn, if you leave the same terrain, it requires a check.

For Tau, you don´t need firepower :)...but still, bikes can be attached to tougher bodies and/or go for the Line Breaker / Objective snatching/contesting in the 5th turn (basic tactic and it works, of course better if you´re going second :) )

Farseer on bike + 2 x 3 Windrider jet bikes and after that it´s your call really. I´m so pro War Walkers (cos I KNOW THEY WORK), that i´m still recommending outflanking Scatter Laser + Bright Lance walkers, at least three. Do you have approx 540p to spend in your list?