Tank Shock Cover Save?

[Soam]

An instance came up in a game the other night. My IG command squad with 4x meltaguns was the target of a tank shock by an Ork Battlewagon carrying a Big Mek. The Big Mek had a Kustom Force Field. I decided to Death or Glory with a meltagun. Per the rules I get a single attack with any weapon that auto hits. The Ork player claimed the cover save from his Big Mek's Force Field. Is he right in claiming the cover save, since its not a normal shooting attack? Is it a shooting attack? Rules seem vague in this situation.

[Nabterayl]

That's absolutely correct. Death or Glory is a regular attack of its type except that it explicitly overrides the following:
Number of attacks or shots (only one, regardless of Attacks statistic or rate of fire)
Never misses
Always hits the front armor of the vehicle
Those are the only exceptions given, so we shouldn't go looking for any more. If he would get the KFF save against the meltagun normally (which he would), then he should get it when you Death or Glory with a meltagun.

[DarkLink]

I'll back up Nabterayl here. The Death or Glory makes the meltaguns auto-hit, not ignore cover.

[Soam]

So then my second question is, does the DoG attack count as an assault? Specifically the KFF rule says that it counts as obscured except in an assault. If its not an assault then does the vehicle get a save against CC attacks?

[Lord Azaghul]

So for two reasons.
It doesn't happen in the assult phase -it happens in the movement phase.
And Vehicles (not walkers) can't assult. (for the most part one shouldn't tank shock with a walker)

No -save against CC attacks - ie you never get cover from a power weapon/claw EVER.

[Nabterayl]

Concur. If the attack normally would have been an assault, it remains so (though it hits the front armor, as the DoG rule explicitly says). If it normally would have been a shooting attack, it remains so, notwithstanding the fact that it is made at point blank range.

[BDub]

I agree with Nab. Had you made a DoG attack with CC weapon he wouldn't get the KFF save though, as the KFF explicitly states it has no affect in close combat. The implication being that you are attacking within the confines of the KFF.

However, this brings up and interesting question with regards to pistols which are ranged weapons but count as close combat weapons in an assault. RaW, I would say since this isn't an assault (its a special attack during movement) that it would be a shooting attack and therefore not invalidate the save. But in the spirit of the rule you could allow the player to choose how the weapon was to be used (shooty or up close and personal)

[Nabterayl]

Certainly a model armed with a pistol is allowed to make a DoG attack either by assaulting or by shooting the pistol. Since even DoG assaults hit the front armor of the vehicle, though, and since you only get one attack no matter how many attacks you're normally entitled to in assault, I can't see many opportunities where you'd want to assault rather than shoot the pistol, if those were your only two options (of course, if it's a question of shooting your plasma pistol or assaulting with your power fist, that's different).

[Lerra]

Interesting.

So, a vehicle can pop smoke to gain a cover save before doing a Tank Shock? And, for the older codices, you can pop smoke to reduce all penetrating hits to glances before a tank shock.

[DarkLink]

Interesting.

So, a vehicle can pop smoke to gain a cover save before doing a Tank Shock? And, for the older codices, you can pop smoke to reduce all penetrating hits to glances before a tank shock.

Smoke only grants a save during the opponent's shooting phase, not your own. Same with old smoke. So no dice there.

[Sam]

Interesting.

So, a vehicle can pop smoke to gain a cover save before doing a Tank Shock? And, for the older codices, you can pop smoke to reduce all penetrating hits to glances before a tank shock.

Tank Shock happens in the movement phase, Smoke Launchers are used in the shooting phase. Smoke Launchers have no effect after the end of the enemy shooting phase following their use. So no, you cannot gain a cover save for your Tank Shock move for having popped smokes.

[Lerra]

Actually, you have to pop smoke during your movement phase in 5th ed. But, DarkLink is correct in that the rules for smoke launchers specifically say that it grants you a cover save during the shooting phase only, so it doesn't work.