Tzeetch/Khorne 1850pts Semi-competitive List

[ExarchSC]

HQ

Kairos Fateweaver – 300pts

Herald of Khorne w/ Juggernaut of Khorne, Exalted Reward: Hellforged Artifact (Grimoire of True Names), and Exalted Locus of Wrath – 155

Karanak – 120pts


TROOPS

Bloodletters (10) w/ Banner of Blood and Instrument of Chaos – 130pts

Bloodletters (10) w/ Banner of Blood and Instrument of Chaos – 130pts

Bloodletters (10) – 100pts

FAST ATTACK

Flesh Hounds of Khorne (15) – 240pts total

ELITES

Bloodcrushers of Khorne (7) w/ Banner of Blood – 335pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

Soul Grinder w/ Daemon of Tzeentch and Phlegm Bombardment 170pts

Soul Grinder w/ Daemon of Tzeentch and Phlegm Bombardment 170pts


Tactics: I plan to use Fateweaver's reroll to ensure that the Grimoire of True Names succeeds. The unit with the Herald of Khorne and Flesh Hounds will stay close to the unit of Bloodcrushers, and recast the Grimoire every turn until they are unable to do so. This will give the Bloodcrushers a 3+ Invulnerable save. Once the Bloodcrushers are in position amidst my enemies, I will start chain deep striking units of 10 Bloodletters off of them. Placed within 6 inches of a model with a Banner of Blood, they will not scatter. They will also be able to charge 6+D6 thanks to the Banners of Blood. The Soul Grinders will take care of enemy air units and armoured units. Fateweaver also lets me reroll results on the Warp Storm table, which should help out.


What do you guys think? I'm looking for any and all feedback. Thanks so much.

[ExarchSC]

I've totally overhauled my list, based on suggestions I've received from friends and whatnot.

HQ

Kairos Fateweaver – 300pts

Herald of Khorne w/ Juggernaut of Khorne, Exalted Locus of Wrath, Lesser Reward: Magic Weapon (Axe of Khorne), and a Greater Reward – 155pts

TROOPS

Daemonettes (20) – 180pts

Plaguebearers (10) – 90pts

Plaguebearers (10) – 90pts

FAST ATTACK

Flesh Hounds (20) – 320

HEAVY SUPPORT

Soul Grinder w/ Daemon of Nurgle and Phlegm Bombardment – 180

Soul Grinder w/ Daemon of Nurgle and Phlegm Bombardment – 180

Daemon Prince w/ Daemon of Tzeentch, Psyker (Mastery Level 3), Demonic Flight, Warp-forged Armour, Exalted Reward: Hellforged Artifact (Grimoire of True Names), and also a Greater Reward – 355pts


I edited my first post for improved readability... I'm really hoping for some advice or criticism from experienced Chaos Daemons players.

[chicop76]

I think drop a grinder and run a skullcannon. The ignore cover saves is really big, that being said I never or forgetto use the assault grenade option. I find myself using it to get rid of pathfinders and other units with +5 saves and lover to hunker down in cover.

That being said I am not a fan of plaguebearers. I play Tau and Daemons and find them really, really, easy to deal with. Strip cover from them and they die easy. They suck at everything else, so if they are doing nothing, but sitting on an objective and the only bonus they have is gone than it turns into I should had played a differant daemon troop. I find they work well with a nurgle herald, which gives them FNP. It wouldn't help them vs a skull cannon, but it does help vs noice marines.

I like to ignore cover, have flyers, and have skyfire. If you can do 2 of the three you usually will do well.

Out of the 5 troops I find daemonettes to be the most useful. The +3 to run helps them get across the board. Now they are not great for holding objectives, but they run really well with hounds. Typically hounds tie up and don't really kill units. The Daemonettes kill units. With the hounds taking over watch fire it really help the daemonettes to come in and finish off units. A good side note is you don't need grenades since the hounds locked the unit in combat. Multi Assualting lots of units with hounds is the way to go especially with +2/3 invulnerable saves, prescience, invisibility, endurance, and etc.

Personally I think hounds do not need a herald. The good thing about a herald is it does help with wound allocation. Also by having endurance on the unit the dogs can recover lost wounds which means you want your wounded hounds in the back and your herald.

I found taking a Tzeentch herald would be a good choice. If you take 16 pink horrors as well you can fire 8- 48 strength 6 ap 4 attacks. If you use prescience it will be 7d6 shots or still 8d6 shots from another unit. This also gives you two divination powers and of course flickering fire.

Here is an example of how good the unit is on average shooting 28 times. If you use prescience from fateweaver or you can yourself, but you will lose d6 shots you will hit about 22 times. Against t4 models and lower you are dishing out 19 wounds which means models with a +4 save or wors is dead unless in cover. Typically guard and orcs have units over 19 and nids. You might give them +6 fnp or kill 3 more models. A second volly will wipe the unit, so it's not a big deal. Against marines that's 6 dead marines and again a second volly will wipe them.

Taking 2 units like above can easily wipe out whole units, or you can take two hearlds with 20 horrors and dish out 12d6 strength 6 shots, I have done this and it is rather nasty. I have wiped out full marine squads chanting feel no pain that.

Also by adding a herald with powers help with your army. I also run Slaanech herlads which give the daemonettes re roll to hit and the herald can challenge whom ever it wants and they have to accept. Also I found the extra telepathy to be useful may it be invisibility or even halluncination.

I would also say go nurgle or slaanech on your grinder. One gives you rending, the other gives you shrounding for +2 cover saves behind a building.

[ExarchSC]

Dope, the Soul Grinders *are* supposed to be Daemons of Nurgle! Damn. Yeah, my plan is to switch things around so that I'm running 20 Daemonettes and two units of 10 Plaguebearers. Everything else will stay the same, I think. However, I *am* going to look over your suggestions very carefully.

Thank you for your response.

[chicop76]

Dope, the Soul Grinders *are* supposed to be Daemons of Nurgle! Damn. Yeah, my plan is to switch things around so that I'm running 20 Daemonettes and two units of 10 Plaguebearers. Everything else will stay the same, I think. However, I *am* going to look over your suggestions very carefully.

Thank you for your response.

No problem. I just noticed the above list and the suggestions is pretty close to what I run. I am running a Lord of Change as my second HQ or I run a Tzeentch and Slaanech Herald with max psychic powers.

I also remembered gifts and figured I mention some things.

The herald have a ap 3 weapon already. The axe is an ap 2 and can cause instant death on a roll of a 6, but if you take a lesser ether blade it will be the same except it's mater crafted which may or may not be helpful if you have prescience on your guy anyway. You can opt for the greater ether blade which gives you a +1 str ap 2 master crafted weapon. That means strength 7 on the charge and if you take another specialist weapon that's 6 strength 7 attacks on the charge with ap 2. The reason I like my Slaanech herald is due to higher I, but Both heralds are ws 7. That in mine 7 strength 5 attacks with ap 2, rending and always re roll to hit isn't bad.

I think I will go off topic a bit and ask why no loci, you can have +2 attacks on the charge or re roll to hit. Since you want to multi assault re rolling to hit will be better. The Slaanech loci allows you to re roll to hit always on top of forcing challenges, trust me if you have invisibility on your Slaanech Herald it is hard to kill her even with a thirster, a +3 invulnerale helps.

Back on rewards it wouldn't be a bad ideal to get an exhaulted reward again. Riftbringer allows you to spawn 2d6+3 deamons. Since hounds can see combat as early as turn 1 this is a great power. It works better on a prince, loc, or bloodthirster since the more you kill the more of a chance you spawn daemon.

1. Free lesser possibility
2. Rage and rampage
3. Can generate more wounds

Also you can get portalglyph. This will allow you to spawn more daemons. It's good in objective based games. I find myself spawning horrors since it's d6 demons and even 1 pink horror can fire 2d6 strength 5 shots which have been helpful taking out units that are near death.

Just out of experance I would suggest you go first, so you can buff your hounds. However you want to remind them if they go first your hounds can assault turn one. If you go second it's possible for your hounds to get wiped off the board. If you go first you can buff your hounds and set them up the way you like come turn 2. If you scout and move you can be in their deployment zone and with fleet boosted running you can easily get that unit in the enemies deployment zone. This in turn means you have a high chance of being assaulted yourself. Which is fine since if you have riftbringer you can start spawning more daemons at the begining of turn one.

I run more psychic powers than you do, but this is an example of my hounds fully buffed.

The most buffs I had on the at one thim:
Divination: +4 invulnerable
Divination: re roll to hit
Pyromancy: +4 cover save, if assaulted the assaulting unit takes d6 hammer of wrath attacks
Biomancy: + 5 feel no pain, it will not die
Telepathy: +1, + 2 cover save and with the pyromancy power means the unit have +2 cover save in the open. Can't be over watched and negates counter attack, also lowers enemy unit in base contact to ws 1, so you are getting hit on 5s with most units.
Rewards: +2 to invulnerable save and due to having a +4 invulnerable save the unit have a +2 invulnerable save.

The above was done wth Fateweaver, Tzeentch Herald, Slaanech Herald, and Tzeentch Prince.

Needless to say the unit went against nids which tied up a swarm lord, hive tyrant, 3 hive guard, 30 gaunts, and a trygon prime wth smash attacks. Fateweaver really helps provide a re roll to save on the enemies turn, so it is possible to have two re rolls to save a game turn. Basically I was able to kill the gaunts, 1 wound on the swarm lord and kill off all the hive guard. I lost 6 hounds and that was with out a khorne herald. The anti psychic aura dd nothing since I was casting out side of it. I won by taking out the rest of the nids and leaving the hounds to do what they was doing.

However the closer they assault you the less distance daemonette have to cross to support the unit.

Going back to the khorne herald I find the fact he can take out rear armour 10 vehicles to be rather helpful. If you multi assault no charge or srength bonus.

[ExarchSC]

Once again, I made a stupid mistake. I had already accounted for the Exalted Locus of Wrath in the points total, but forgot to list it. Now my list should be without errors.

So you think that the Lesser Etherblade is better than the Axe of Khorne? Maybe I'll switch those two on the Herald of Khorne. I'm not sure if I want another Exalted Reward, but I'm gonna read through them all again (just in case). I'd like to get a Herald of Slaanesh to put with the unit of Daemonettes, but I don't want to give up my Herald of Khorne. I feel like my Flesh Hounds are my "go to" unit, and I'm gonna be trying to buff them as much as possible.

Also, I hear that Soul Grinders are awesome. I've also heard that Skull Cannons suck. I'm not sure I should make that change. How beneficial are assault grenades and ignores cover?

I'm actually pretty new to the game; this army will be my first. Thanks for all the advice. I edited my list, btw, and it should all be accurate now.

[chicop76]

Once again, I made a stupid mistake. I had already accounted for the Exalted Locus of Wrath in the points total, but forgot to list it. Now my list should be without errors.

So you think that the Lesser Etherblade is better than the Axe of Khorne? Maybe I'll switch those two on the Herald of Khorne. I'm not sure if I want another Exalted Reward, but I'm gonna read through them all again (just in case). I'd like to get a Herald of Slaanesh to put with the unit of Daemonettes, but I don't want to give up my Herald of Khorne. I feel like my Flesh Hounds are my "go to" unit, and I'm gonna be trying to buff them as much as possible.

Also, I hear that Soul Grinders are awesome. I've also heard that Skull Cannons suck. I'm not sure I should make that change. How beneficial are assault grenades and ignores cover?

I'm actually pretty new to the game; this army will be my first. Thanks for all the advice. I edited my list, btw, and it should all be accurate now.

Etherblade vs Axe is a hard choice. One is master crafted and one instakills on a 6. If you are not re rolling to hit than the blade is better, if you have hatred or prescience and they are re rolling to hit a lot than the axe is better. You didn't have hatred listed, so that is why I said blade, a greater etherblade is beter than the axe though. However you can take a greaer etherblade and the axe which wil give you +1 attack, so if you are facing multiwound models you can switch back and forth.

Fleshhounds even with the herald have trouble wiping out units unless they have a lot of buffs on them. Also you are forced to multi assault with them, well unless you want your army shot up you better multi assault. If you single assault you can take out most units. Just keep in mind I won combat against hounds with Tau fire warriors due to having a better save and them having a stubborn aura due to my ethereal, a herald would had mad a differance in that fight. Although if the unit was properly buffed they would had won, like having prescience on them. I have games where my hounds just owned, like facing orcs and gaunts, but keep in mind the better the armour save the worst they will perform. Against higher armour it turns into a tie up match. It's important that although it is hard to kill a terminator with a hound it is hard for the terminator to kill an invisible hound with a +2/+3 invulnerable save.

Soulgrinders are good and not cheap. Most daemon armies hq and heavy support is over 1,200 points. Which basically mean that both slots is your army. Grinder almost hit you for almost 200 while a skull cannon hits you for almost 100. Your Grinder rarely see combat, so either your Grinder is shooting troops, armour, or flyers. It's ok as an anti flyer. Which leaves what people will argue about. Do you want a strength 8 ap 3 large blast or a strength 8 ap 5 large blast that ignores cover and give assault grenades to the unit that assault the unit you just shot. Keep in mind that the ap 3 is as good as the cover save is. Meaning if marines in +4 or +5 save cover they are still saving. The skullcannon will still have to get pass +3 saves.
Where the cannon shines is vs armies with aegis defense lines, and units with +5 saves in cover. For example stealth suits can get a +2 cover save vs your Grinder while they would get a +3 vs the cannon.

I run both if I run 3 grinders it really cuts into my army. I either run 1 grinder, 2 cannons, or 1 grinder, 1 cannon, 1 Tzeentch prince.

Another reason I run the cannon is due to Tau and Eldar which both armies have troops this weapon blows away. Also daemons. I get that daemon player who ask me why I run the cannon and not plague bearers. He finds out when I am wiping his bearer off the objectives with my cannon, it also helps when true names turns his saves into +6 saves, and misfortune as well. I wouldn't say it's better that a grinder. The grinder out performs the cannon in almost every way, but in two three things. 1. The cannon is cheap, 2. It ignores cover saves, 3. And provides grenades.

On th grenade part I have yet to useit as such. I think I am up 30-40 games with Daemons in 6th, I been playing them since 4th.

In 6th I faced
Daemons
CSM
UltraMarines
Salamanders
BlackTemplar
Dark Angels like 8 times bikes, mix, and term
Tau like 10 times
Imperial Guard
Orcs
Blood Angels
Imerial Fist

Necrons and Greyknights don't count since it was 75% Tau and not pure Daemons. The rest was with pur Daemons. I have yet to lose with daemons in 6th. With that being said I never used the cannon for assault grenades. The reason is several.

1. I do not want to shoot the unit and not be able to assault it. Happens with the dumb warpstorm table before.
2. I don't want to accidently kill my own guys.
3. The units I assault and shoot at tend to be differant.

I almost forgot that a cannon is bs 5 which means it hit on or near on target a lot. Surprisingly I lives most of the game. Invulnerable saves does help. Usually people ar more worried about hounds and 2-3 winged daemons in their face with 30 daemonettes right behind them.

What I look at is a grinder is 200 almost and a cannon is 100 almost. The 100 point model almost always earn his points back and the same goes for the grinder. I say use both and you will get a picture of what I mean. When you have +5 armour saving models firning lascannons, plasma, etc and have +2 cover saves you will see why you should have atleast on cannon. Also it's great anti horde which unless they have invulnerable saves it wipes them out.