What is the deal with… Space Wolves?

[Prince Nuada]

Hi all!

Seriously, what is the deal with Space Wolves?
I can't help but feel like I'm missing something.
Part of me wants to like them but another part of me thinks they kinda suck.
Help me out here…


Wolf Lord — great, kit him out for dakka or close combat and beat face!

Wolf Guard Battle Leader — SUCK! Not a scratch on the Wolf Lord and for the points you'd be better off with a Wolf Priest.

Wolf Priest — good, essentially a chaplain with some interesting options.

Rune Priest — also good for obvious reasons.


Wolf Guard — great, like the Wolf Lord you can tool them how you like and you can attach them to your squads. On the down side I always thought Wolf Guard should be stock armed with bolt pistols and chainswords with the option to take a boltgun (or other weapons, obviously) making them more like Grey Hunters. Also, Terminators can't deepstrike — sucks!

Wolf Scouts — ok, but in the wrong spot really. These are essentially scouting Grey Hunters.

Lone Wolf — SUCK! This is quite simply a waste if a perfectly good Elites slot which would be better served by a Dreadnought.

Dreadnought / Venerable Dreadnought — ok, does what it says on the tin. These all too often end up as weapons platforms to compensate for the chapter's lack of heavy weapons.

Iron Priest — ok, pretty much a Techmarine, some interesting unique options.


Grey Hunters — awesome! The bee's knees and the cat's meow. Quite literally the best all-round Troops choice in any space marine chapter!

Blood Claws — SUCK! The WS and BS of guardsmen and whatever it is they do, Grey Hunters do it better for not much points difference.


Rhino — ok.

Razorback — good. These see more use in Space Wolves armies as they not only provide additional heavy weapons platforms but mechanised Grey Hunters do not suffer in any way by riding one.

Drop Pod — ok.


Thunderwolf Cavalry — great but expensive! But great!

Swift Claws — SUCK! Again, the WS and BS of guardsmen, these will be out-classed by their contemporaries in other armies.

Sky Claws — SUCK! See above.

Landspeeders — ok. Stock vanilla, these see a lot of action to supplement the chapter's lack of heavy weapons.

Fenrisian Wolves — SUCK! Good God-Emperor why? Seriously, put down the crack pipe.


Long Fangs — awesome! Everybody's favourite 5-heavy weapon Devastator Squad.

Predator, Vindicator, Whirlwind, all Landraiders — ok, these are basically all vanilla.


Weighing up the pros and the cons, Space Wolves appear to come out below par. I mean, they can't split into combat squads, they can't take any flyers (outside of Forge World) and unless you build your army for entirely fluffy purposes, eight out of ten compedetive armies will follow the save formula.



Thoughts anybody?

[Demonus]

Hi all!

Seriously, what is the deal with Space Wolves?
I can't help but feel like I'm missing something.
Part of me wants to like them but another part of me thinks they kinda suck.
Help me out here…


Wolf Lord — great, kit him out for dakka or close combat and beat face!

Wolf Guard Battle Leader — SUCK! Not a scratch on the Wolf Lord and for the points you'd be better off with a Wolf Priest.

Wolf Priest — good, essentially a chaplain with some interesting options.

Rune Priest — also good for obvious reasons.


Wolf Guard — great, like the Wolf Lord you can tool them how you like and you can attach them to your squads. On the down side I always thought Wolf Guard should be stock armed with bolt pistols and chainswords with the option to take a boltgun (or other weapons, obviously) making them more like Grey Hunters. Also, Terminators can't deepstrike — sucks!

Wolf Scouts — ok, but in the wrong spot really. These are essentially scouting Grey Hunters.

Dreadnought / Venerable Dreadnought — ok, does what it says on the tin. These all too often end up as weapons platforms to compensate for the chapter's lack of heavy weapons.

Iron Priest — ok, pretty much a Techmarine, some interesting unique options.


Grey Hunters — awesome! The bee's knees and the cat's meow. Quite literally the best all-round Troops choice in any space marine chapter!

Blood Claws — SUCK! The WS and BS of guardsmen and whatever it is they do, Grey Hunters do it better for not much points difference.


Rhino — ok.

Razorback — good. These see more use in Space Wolves armies as they not only provide additional heavy weapons platforms but mechanised Grey Hunters do not suffer in any way by riding one.

Drop Pod — ok.


Thunderwolf Cavalry — great but expensive! But great!

Swift Claws — SUCK! Again, the WS and BS of guardsmen, these will be out-classed by their contemporaries in other armies.

Sky Claws — SUCK! See above.

Landspeeders — ok. Stock vanilla, these see a lot of action to supplement the chapter's lack of heavy weapons.

Fenrisian Wolves — SUCK! Good God-Emperor why? Seriously, put down the crack pipe.


Long Fangs — awesome! Everybody's favourite 5-heavy weapon Devastator Squad.

Predator, Vindicator, Whirlwind, all Landraiders — ok, these are basically all vanilla.



Thoughts anybody?

Fenris Wolves are a cheap fast 5+ cover save for your other troops if you use them as a screen. They can also be useful in tying up units for a turn or so. Nasty character going to charge your Long Fangs next turn? Charge him with 10 wolves to buy yourself some time, and maybe even cause some damage, they do have Str 4 I believe.

I was never a fan of blood claws, but they can be ok if you bring a bunch and give them a Chaplain or Ragnar to lead them. Massive amount of attacks when they charge in should eliminate any small squad, even terminators, due to number of attacks.

For scouts, take 5 of them, put a scouting WG with a melta in there, and you have a small unit that is capable of sneaking in opponents backfield and blowing up a bastion/land raider/tank for cheap. Also they can come in and shoot up a heavy weapons squad, and if they survive til next turn, charge them.
________

Personally I love the Wolves concept, but dont see them as the Super Power army that others rank them as. Maybe I dont play the right lists. I rank them right around Blood Angels in terms of winning chance, with some cool characters, rune priests, drop pod dudes, and grey hunter packs. Expect a huge nerf in 6e, with the GH losing their extra weapon, and rune priests losing their 24" counterspell.

[Cactus]

I love my Space Wolves.

A lot of players spam some of the stronger units, like Grey Hunters with a combi-melta and power X, but it sounds like a lot of your complaints can apply to many armies, like Predators being vanilla. I think the variety of SW units are excellent, the unique way a few units are purchased fit the fluff (like scouts being elite choices), and most of the models are excellent with lots of options on the spru to customize your plasticdudesmen.

I don't know if you're playing them now, or just considering playing them but I find them to be a very competitive army. Plus, I love playing space vikings!

Team up a wolf priest with a 15 man blood claw unit and you have a larger than average marine unit that has re-rollable +2 attacks on the charge. Still T4 and 3+ save too.
Wolf lords on thunderwolves, joining a thunderwolf unit, sitting behind 15 fenrisian wolves is a nasty combo that can go toe-to-paw with just about any other unit in the game.
Scouts (with better BS than most scouts) outflaking with up to two special, assault weapons is a headache for many armies to deal with.

[Prince Nuada]

Team up a wolf priest with a 15 man blood claw unit and you have a larger than average marine unit that has re-rollable +2 attacks on the charge. Still T4 and 3+ save too.
Yes, this is the tactic most often recommended by proponents of Blood Claws.
Problem is they are armed for close combat and you have to find a way to get them into close combat.
How do you do that? You can only fit 10 in a Rhino (or 9 if you include a Chaplain), so why not take Grey Hunters? Or you could load 14-15 of them into a Landraider Crusader but then your "cheap" unit starts to become expensive and such an investment would be better served by transporting more impressive infantry. Your only other option is to foot-slog accross the battlefield, but I doubt that 5 additional wounds will do too much to reduce the pounding they will recieve on the way and once they get there and charge through the snapfire they have to have the numbers to make a difference. I think the biggest set-back for Blood Claws (and Swift Claws and Sky Claws for that matter) is that although they might do ok on the charge, they cannot hold their own in a prolonged fight and will start to loose. Moreover, you can only reasonably put a Wolf Priest into one Bloodclaws unit, two at the most if you really don't like Wolf Lords or Rune Priests (or winning for that matter).

[Cactus]

Yes, this is the tactic most often recommended by proponents of Blood Claws.
Problem is they are armed for close combat and you have to find a way to get them into close combat.
How do you do that? You can only fit 10 in a Rhino (or 9 if you include a Chaplain), so why not take Grey Hunters? Or you could load 14-15 of them into a Landraider Crusader but then your "cheap" unit starts to become expensive and such an investment would be better served by transporting more impressive infantry. Your only other option is to foot-slog accross the battlefield, but I doubt that 5 additional wounds will do too much to reduce the pounding they will recieve on the way and once they get there and charge through the snapfire they have to have the numbers to make a difference. I think the biggest set-back for Blood Claws (and Swift Claws and Sky Claws for that matter) is that although they might do ok on the charge, they cannot hold their own in a prolonged fight and will start to loose. Moreover, you can only reasonably put a Wolf Priest into one Bloodclaws unit, two at the most if you really don't like Wolf Lords or Rune Priests (or winning for that matter).

I find that Rhinos and other vehicles (other than drop pods) are disappearing from Marine player's lists. Move 6", Run, Charge 2d6 is usually getting me there in turn 2, three at the latest. Plus, counter charge with Bloodclaws helps as well.

If my opponent is shooting at blood claws, he's not shooting grey hunters, long fangs and thunder wolves.

I've recently become a fan of three land speeders with heavy bolters. That's 18 S5 hits that jink. I harass just about anything that S5 can wound (usually troops though) and my opponent gets frustrated with all of the dice I'm throwing - just like I can throw with a large blood claw unit.

[Mr.Pickelz]

"Wolf Guard — great, like the Wolf Lord you can tool them how you like and you can attach them to your squads. On the down side I always thought Wolf Guard should be stock armed with bolt pistols and chainswords with the option to take a boltgun (or other weapons, obviously) making them more like Grey Hunters. Also, Terminators can't deepstrike — sucks!"

-They can buy a drop pod, and therefore deepstrike.

"Lone Wolf — SUCK! This is quite simply a waste if a perfectly good Elites slot which would be better served by a Dreadnought."

-Lone Wolves offer good road-blocks to assault units, like a Berserker horde, with a killy-lord plopped in. The thing to note is that you, as the space Wolf player, want him to die. Kind of backwards i know, but he is THE suicide unit of the codex. Load him with Termy armor, a chainfist or Thunderhammer, and maybe a Storm Shield, and two wolves, and then toss him at what's dangerous and/or in your back field, aka threatening your Long Fangs.

"Fenrisian Wolves — SUCK! Good God-Emperor why? Seriously, put down the crack pipe."

- these are the good screeners and good at road-blocking units or adding an extra punch to an assault. place in a wolf lord with wolf saga and they become I:5.

"Long Fangs — awesome! Everybody's favourite 5-heavy weapon Devastator Squad."

-i think your underestimating the op'ness (imo) of this one unit. It will replace pretty much all heavy support options for this book. 5x missiles, plus a Wolf guard with Termy armor and a Cyclone, means 7 missile shots a turn that can be split into two different targets, and can be blasts (for hordes) or Str. 8 (for tanks/heavy infantry). This can get utterly insane against certain armies.


Space Wolves, imo, are built around shooting. Their good in CC, so related armies have to plan out assaults (unlike Tau). SW's also have plenty of screening units, and road-blockers. While also having great counter attack potential. But as i look through the codex, the options favor a more shooting bias build. The inclusion of flyers (aka Helldrake) have given the SW's a good right-hook in the cheek, but the codex is still good and can be utilized, especially since Rune Priests can get Divination rolls.

[lattd]

Sky claws are an amazing delivery system for a wolf lord with jet pack frost blade/axe and warrior born.

[The Sovereign]

Some of your points I agree with (Fenrisian wolves, blood claws), some I don't (lone wolves, battle leaders). I actually find that my grey hunters aren't very resilient, contrary to the opinion of many other Wolves players.

I think the army can still do well under the right circumstances, it just hasn't adjusted to 6th Ed as well as some other codexes. Wolves are just beginning to show a little age, that's all. Our army will experience a renaissance next year, I'm sure.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Hmm i think some of the reason i enjoyed my wolves as much as the customization that you can give them. Conversions are a huge thing for me. Just the ideal that your regular marine is mostly going to follow the whole tactical appeal and no decoration minus banners and some purity seals. where as your wolves are going to be running with belts trophies whatever you want them to honestly. Their troublesome enough fluff wise that you can realistically come it with some very interesting grudge matches. right now i still rank a grey hunter up there for overall value as a scoring unit and still one of my top 3 troop choices. me i love my blood claw unit but i just wish they had done more to separate them from grey hunters i expressed as much to mr kelly as i could at the last games day.

Now it could be because i've always played mixed or hybrid lists but wolves still do well in rhino's drop pods and land raiders. i still believe in target saturation. it's probably the guard in me coming up but if you're going to take something commit to it and usually i find that you come out with a much stronger list visa vi sprinkling a little of this and a litle of there everywhere.

also long fangs are still ridiculously good rune priests still top tier psychers and their special characters can add alot to the list easily.

[Ursa]

Space Wolves are a great army and the best defensive army in the game. Excellent at shooting and their counter charge ability makes them great to stay in place. I use BCs for objective taking. Small units rushing out to secure while grey hunters and long fangs support. The core of my army starts with four rune priests one 2nd Lvl. They support the long fangs and GHs.
Have to admit I haven't played them a lot in 6th edition but haven't lost a game yet.

[Prince Nuada]

Space Wolves are a great army and the best defensive army in the game. Excellent at shooting and their counter charge ability makes them great to stay in place. I use BCs for objective taking. Small units rushing out to secure while grey hunters and long fangs support. The core of my army starts with four rune priests one 2nd Lvl. They support the long fangs and GHs.
Have to admit I haven't played them a lot in 6th edition but haven't lost a game yet.

I'm not sure that I agree with you that they are the best defensive army in the game.
Imperial Guard have the sheer numbers to absorb a dedicated offensive.
The Tau Empire might suffer in close combat but they have the range and firepower to severely punish you for even making the attempt.
Necrons get knocked down, but they get up again, aint nothing gonna keep them down…
Also, I fail to understand how you can field FOUR Rune Priests in a single game??!! :confused:

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

that's because each hq slot is a 1-2 so you can run with a min 1 and a max 2 in a single detatchment of space wolves. this is to represent the wolves epmhasis on characters saga's and tales for the alfather :) and as for defensive i do believe they can be a strong defensive army. yes necrons get back up but thats on a5+ guard are very squishy and ya tau fold like a wet paper napkin in close combat. and their guns are more med range so you can very easily outrange them with firepower. And many people forget the drop pod and deep strike. Tau hate when you drop pod in behind their lines and gun the little buggers down.

[Prince Nuada]

I don't know, mechanised Tau can mount and redeploy quite quickly, always keeping you at arm's length.
Kroot are designed to be purely defensive and can generally tarpit well. That would be my move if you deep-struck / drop-podded behind my line — redeploy and block your assault corridors with auxilia. ;)

On the HQ point, that's quite interesting…
I might have missed that, I will need to investigate.
Still, doesn't make Blood Claws suck any less. :)

[Pater Sin]

Long fang can only have 4 heavy weapons plus the pack leader, my csm have been shot at by them enough to know the squad composition. Also Tau pulse rifles have 30" range, which means they can start shooting a long time before you get to charge range.

[Prince Nuada]

Actually, the Long Fangs entry in the codex pegs them at 1-5 Long Fangs and a Squad Leader. Each Long Fang except the Squad Leader must replace their bolt pistol with a heavy weapon.

[DarkLink]

Seriously, what is the deal with Space Wolves?
I can't help but feel like I'm missing something.
Part of me wants to like them but another part of me thinks they kinda suck.
Help me out here…

You're missing something. Like, all of 5th ed, where Space Wolves dominated the tournament scene for a very, very long time, and they're still pretty powerful.



Wolf Lord — great, kit him out for dakka or close combat and beat face!

Wolf Guard Battle Leader — SUCK! Not a scratch on the Wolf Lord and for the points you'd be better off with a Wolf Priest.

Wolf Priest — good, essentially a chaplain with some interesting options.

Rune Priest — also good for obvious reasons.

Wolf Priests suck. Chaplains suck. But you're still left with two great HQs, the Wolf Lord and Rune Priest. No right to complain there, especially since you're the only army in the game that still can block enemy psychic powers.



Wolf Guard — great, like the Wolf Lord you can tool them how you like and you can attach them to your squads. On the down side I always thought Wolf Guard should be stock armed with bolt pistols and chainswords with the option to take a boltgun (or other weapons, obviously) making them more like Grey Hunters. Also, Terminators can't deepstrike — sucks!

Terminators shouldn't be deepstriking in the first place. Wolf Guard are an awesome, extremely flexible unit. The only drawback is the sheer expense of THSS Terminators, so you can't take large units like other SM Chapters, but aside from that, you can scatter combi-weapons throughout your army very effectively for very cheap. So you've got at least one great unit in your Elite slot.



Wolf Scouts — ok, but in the wrong spot really. These are essentially scouting Grey Hunters.

Can't assault out of reserves anymore, so they're not really worth it. They used to be great.



Lone Wolf — SUCK! This is quite simply a waste if a perfectly good Elites slot which would be better served by a Dreadnought.

Every Phil Kelly codex has crappy units. Heck, every codex in the game has at least one.



Dreadnought / Venerable Dreadnought — ok, does what it says on the tin. These all too often end up as weapons platforms to compensate for the chapter's lack of heavy weapons.

All Dreadnoughts have ever done is bring heavy weapons. Why is that a negative? But, yes, they're not bad but not great.



Iron Priest — ok, pretty much a Techmarine, some interesting unique options.

Techmarines are terrible. The only reason to take a Techmarine is for a Thunderfire Cannon, or GK Rad/Psykotroke Grenades, and you can't do either. Definitely not worth a boosted cover save compared to an Aegis Defense Line.



Grey Hunters — awesome! The bee's knees and the cat's meow. Quite literally the best all-round Troops choice in any space marine chapter!

Blood Claws — SUCK! The WS and BS of guardsmen and whatever it is they do, Grey Hunters do it better for not much points difference.

When you've got one of the best troop choices in the game, who cares about Blood Claws. Take lots of Grey Hunters. They're very good, and troops win games.



Rhino — ok.

Razorback — good. These see more use in Space Wolves armies as they not only provide additional heavy weapons platforms but mechanised Grey Hunters do not suffer in any way by riding one.

Drop Pod — ok.

Drop Pods are excellent. You get to alpha strike your opponent (and get an easy First Blood), put your unit wherever you want without getting shot on the way there, and you can physically corral your opponent's army in and force him to waste firepower on the Drop Pod. Rhinos are still worth it, they're just not auto-includes anymore. Either way, you've still got a good selection of transports.



Thunderwolf Cavalry — great but expensive! But great!

Swift Claws — SUCK! Again, the WS and BS of guardsmen, these will be out-classed by their contemporaries in other armies.

Sky Claws — SUCK! See above.

Landspeeders — ok. Stock vanilla, these see a lot of action to supplement the chapter's lack of heavy weapons.

Fenrisian Wolves — SUCK! Good God-Emperor why? Seriously, put down the crack pipe.

TWC are pretty good in the right list, and Fenrisian Wolves aren't as bad as you think. A squadron of Landspeeders is a pretty powerful unit. But despite a mediocre FA slot, you still have some good options.



Long Fangs — awesome! Everybody's favourite 5-heavy weapon Devastator Squad.

Predator, Vindicator, Whirlwind, all Landraiders — ok, these are basically all vanilla.

Whirlwinds are pretty good, simply because Barrage is awesome and they're cheap. Long Fangs are excellent, and the rest of the units are perfectly usable in the right list. You've got a very good HS slot.




Weighing up the pros and the cons, Space Wolves appear to come out below par. I mean, they can't split into combat squads, they can't take any flyers (outside of Forge World) and unless you build your army for entirely fluffy purposes, eight out of ten compedetive armies will follow the save formula.

Flyers are a big weakness. But, you still have some of the best HQs, Elites, Troops, and HS options in the game, and you've got a decent FA slot. SWs are a pretty powerful codex. Take some allies to remedy the lack of anti-flyer, and you can't blame your army if you lose.

[bronkasaurus]

Hi all!

Seriously, what is the deal with Space Wolves?
I can't help but feel like I'm missing something.
Part of me wants to like them but another part of me thinks they kinda suck.
Help me out here…


Wolf Lord — great, kit him out for dakka or close combat and beat face!

Wolf Guard Battle Leader — SUCK! Not a scratch on the Wolf Lord and for the points you'd be better off with a Wolf Priest.

Wolf Priest — good, essentially a chaplain with some interesting options.

Rune Priest — also good for obvious reasons.


Wolf Guard — great, like the Wolf Lord you can tool them how you like and you can attach them to your squads. On the down side I always thought Wolf Guard should be stock armed with bolt pistols and chainswords with the option to take a boltgun (or other weapons, obviously) making them more like Grey Hunters. Also, Terminators can't deepstrike — sucks!

Wolf Scouts — ok, but in the wrong spot really. These are essentially scouting Grey Hunters.

Lone Wolf — SUCK! This is quite simply a waste if a perfectly good Elites slot which would be better served by a Dreadnought.

Dreadnought / Venerable Dreadnought — ok, does what it says on the tin. These all too often end up as weapons platforms to compensate for the chapter's lack of heavy weapons.

Iron Priest — ok, pretty much a Techmarine, some interesting unique options.


Grey Hunters — awesome! The bee's knees and the cat's meow. Quite literally the best all-round Troops choice in any space marine chapter!

Blood Claws — SUCK! The WS and BS of guardsmen and whatever it is they do, Grey Hunters do it better for not much points difference.


Rhino — ok.

Razorback — good. These see more use in Space Wolves armies as they not only provide additional heavy weapons platforms but mechanised Grey Hunters do not suffer in any way by riding one.

Drop Pod — ok.


Thunderwolf Cavalry — great but expensive! But great!

Swift Claws — SUCK! Again, the WS and BS of guardsmen, these will be out-classed by their contemporaries in other armies.

Sky Claws — SUCK! See above.

Landspeeders — ok. Stock vanilla, these see a lot of action to supplement the chapter's lack of heavy weapons.

Fenrisian Wolves — SUCK! Good God-Emperor why? Seriously, put down the crack pipe.


Long Fangs — awesome! Everybody's favourite 5-heavy weapon Devastator Squad.

Predator, Vindicator, Whirlwind, all Landraiders — ok, these are basically all vanilla.


Weighing up the pros and the cons, Space Wolves appear to come out below par. I mean, they can't split into combat squads, they can't take any flyers (outside of Forge World) and unless you build your army for entirely fluffy purposes, eight out of ten compedetive armies will follow the save formula.



Thoughts anybody?

Where to begin, where to begin... well I suppose I'll just go down the entire list

Wolf Lord — Amazing in close combat, not an auto include however.

Wolf Guard Battle Leader — A crappy Wolf Lord, just ignore this entry in the codex and go for the Wolf Lord

Wolf Priest — Great for giving preferred enemy to silly units

Rune Priest — Essentially the Best Non-Named HQ in the Codex. Essentially an auto include 4+ deny the witch within 24" downright broken.

Wolf Guard — Essentially a Squad Sargent keeps your troops from ****ting themselves, also great for sending down first turn in a drop-pod with combi meltas for first blood. On the down side I always thought Wolf Guard should be stock armed with bolt pistols and chainswords with the option to take a boltgun (or other weapons, obviously) making them more like Grey Hunters. <--- NO. Also, Terminators can't deepstrike — sucks! <--- ALSO NO, put them in a drop pod for crying out loud, then they can't mishap as easy.

Wolf Scouts — ok, but in the wrong spot really. These are essentially scouting Grey Hunters. <-- NOPE, they're tank hunters, for when you don't want to send 5 wolf guard ina drop pod down, they've lost alot of use since they've been FAQ'd to not be able to take a Wolf Guard with them.

Lone Wolf — SUCK! This is quite simply a waste if a perfectly good Elites slot which would be better served by a Dreadnought. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!! These things are ******* amazing!!! Give them termie armor, 2 Fenrisian wolves for extra wounds, a storm shield and thunderhammer, and if you're going monster killing a beastslayer saga as well, and they're essentially a cheap Arjac. Also, they're amazing distraction units, if they're not dealt with they ruin things, if they are then they lose a kill point. Win win all around, amazing choice.

Dreadnought / Venerable Dreadnought — Cheap heavy weapons, not too great, but not awful.

Iron Priest — ok, pretty much a Techmarine, some interesting unique options.


Grey Hunters — awesome! The bee's knees and the cat's meow. Quite literally the best all-round Troops choice in any space marine chapter!

Blood Claws — ****ing awesome in Land Raiders or drop pods, essentially, if you like to beat things in over the head, take these


Rhino — Great! Being able to move 10 Grey Hunters 18 inches first turn is a godsend, 35 points for these things is a bargian
Razorback — Decent, can easily be replaced by vindies or long fangs, lack purpose.

Drop Pod — ****ing Great! Especially with Ragnar Blackmane, or anything that like punching things...so pretty much everything that can take a drop pod.


Thunderwolf Cavalry — Good, but overly expensive.

Swift Claws — SUCK! Again, the WS and BS of guardsmen, these will be out-classed by their contemporaries in other armies. True.

Sky Claws — SUCK! See above. Also True.

Landspeeders — Great for cheap heavy weapons that go fast.

Fenrisian Wolves — As a unit by themselves, not too good. But as an upgrade for Wolf Lords or Lone Wolves etc etc they are amazing, pretty much cheap extra wounds


Long Fangs — ****ing great, stick these bad boys with 5 missile launchers and they're one of the best heavy weapons choices in the codex (Why not lascannons or plasmacannons? Well, lascannons are only for tanks. Plasmacannons can kill you. Missile launchers combine anti infantry with antitank, and are cheap as all ****.)

Predator,Whirlwind, all Landraiders — ok, these are basically all vanilla. No arguments here.

Vindicator - I love my ******* vindies, they're great and kill pretty much anything you throw them at.

[Asuryan]

Blood Claws — SUCK! The WS and BS of guardsmen and whatever it is they do, Grey Hunters do it better for not much points difference.

Swift Claws — SUCK! Again, the WS and BS of guardsmen, these will be out-classed by their contemporaries in other armies.

Sky Claws — SUCK! See above.

I never understand why people hate the Claw units. I play Eldar and i know that biased me to not caring about their WS and BS, because in CC being hit on 3's wounded on 4's with a 3+ save beats being hit on 4's wounded on 3's with a 4+ save or even a 3+, especially with how many attacks they claw units put out on the charge. while the blood claws lose out to grey hunters they still have their usefulness and as the sky and swift don't have grey equivalents they can't be outclassed. Also the Claw units will beat down on their equivalents in CC because of rage and won't really be outclassed if they only get the countercharge.

[Prince Nuada]

I will argue that the Wolf Guard's inability to deepstrike is a hinderance.
You can't put terminators in a drop pod so the heaviest-hitting element of your army can never alpha-strike without foregoing their heavy armour (and associated goodies).

Also, let's consider Lone Wolves for a moment. You give them terminator armour and wolves. Granted that a good degree of firepower will bounce off but also consider this: they are foot-slogging infantry, they will have to run to where they need to be, those wolves will simply melt away in a single round of shooting and then all it takes is a single plasma shot to do its business and you've p*ssed away a perfectly good Elites slot. Now, as far as the kill point goes, so he dies and you get the kill point? Big deal. He's still managed to achieve f*ck all and and as mentioned you've wasted an entire Elites slot. By comparisson you would have been better-off with a wolf-mounted Iron Priest with wolves – at least he would be faster!

Blood Claws might be awesome in a Land Raider but just think about that for a second — 250 points AND a Heavy Support slot just to get your WS 3 welps into close combat, and then (after the first round) they loose their charge bonus and they become extreemly mediocre. Adding a Wolf Priest might improve them marginally but that's another 100+ pts and what is an average unit at best becomes horrifyingly expensive just to overcome their inadequacies. Consider:

10 Grey Hunters + Rhino or Drop Pod = 185 pts
•Rhino/Drop Pod delivers Grey Hunters.
•Grey Hunters dismount, get fired on but return fire.
•Grey Hunters charge and do well!
»On the whole a good investment of points.

10 Blood Claws + Rhino or Drop Pod = 185 pts
•Rhino/Drop Pod delivers Blood Claws.
•Blood Claws dismount, get fired on but are unable to return fire.
•Blood Claws charge and do well in the first round.
•Blood Claws loose all their charge bonuses in subsequent rounds.
»That round of shooting your Blood Claws suffer could severely hamper them (not to mention that they will be charging through snapfire). If they loose enough models to shooting, it doesn't matter how good they are on the charge.

9 Blood Claws + Wolf Priest + Rhino or Drop Pod = 270 pts
•Rhino/Drop Pod delivers Blood Claws.
•Blood Claws dismount, get fired on but are unable to return fire.
•Blood Claws charge and kick *ss in the first round.
•Blood Claws loose all their charge bonuses in subsequent rounds but have better stating power because of the Wolf Priest.
»See above. Also more expensive.

14 Blood Claws + Wolf Priest + Landraider Crusader = 560 pts
•Landraider Crusader delivers Blood Claws whilst laying down serious firepower.
•Landraider Crusader dismount and charge straight into close combat, kicking *ss!
•Blood Claws loose all their charge bonuses in subsequent rounds but have better stating power because of the Wolf Priest.
»The best option by far but look at the freaking price tag!

[DarkLink]

I will argue that the Wolf Guard's inability to deepstrike is a hinderance.

Drop Pods.



You can't put terminators in a drop pod

Yes, you can.



so the heaviest-hitting element of your army can never alpha-strike without foregoing their heavy armour (and associated goodies).

Deep striking Terminators is generally a pretty stupid idea, with very few exceptions, especially when SW Terminators aren't particularly competitive compared to some of your other options. Unless you're in a Drop Pod, which, hey, guess what, you can do.

[Demonus]

Wolf Scouts — ok, but in the wrong spot really. These are essentially scouting Grey Hunters. <-- NOPE, they're tank hunters, for when you don't want to send 5 wolf guard ina drop pod down, they've lost alot of use since they've been FAQ'd to not be able to take a Wolf Guard with them.


Nothing stopping you from taking a WG with your scouts, they simply roll normal Outflank instead of Behind Enemy Lines.

Q: Can a Wolf Guard Pack Leader or Independent Character join a
squad of Wolf Scouts and benefit from the Outflank special rule
because at least one model has the ability? (p27)
A: Yes.
Q: If so, do they roll to see where they enter play using the Wolf Scouts’
Behind Enemy Lines special rule or the normal Outflank special rule?
(p27).
A: The normal Outflank special rule.

[bronkasaurus]

Nothing stopping you from taking a WG with your scouts, they simply roll normal Outflank instead of Behind Enemy Lines.

Q: Can a Wolf Guard Pack Leader or Independent Character join a
squad of Wolf Scouts and benefit from the Outflank special rule
because at least one model has the ability? (p27)
A: Yes.
Q: If so, do they roll to see where they enter play using the Wolf Scouts’
Behind Enemy Lines special rule or the normal Outflank special rule?
(p27).
A: The normal Outflank special rule.

Ah yes forgot about that, however they lose of their effectiveness, as they can no longer charge out of behind enemy lines, you're essentially banking on that one meltashot before they shot to all hell.

[Ursa]

Ah yes forgot about that, however they lose of their effectiveness, as they can no longer charge out of behind enemy lines, you're essentially banking on that one meltashot before they shot to all hell.
Unless u equip a WG with something shooty too. Plus lets not forget Saga of the Hunter on one of your wolf priests or WGBL
Which allows them to join the squad and outflank too. That's potentially three Melita's plasmas or flamers (very effective vs defensively armies) .

[Cactus]

Unless u equip a WG with something shooty too. Plus lets not forget Saga of the Hunter on one of your wolf priests or WGBL
Which allows them to join the squad and outflank too. That's potentially three Melita's plasmas or flamers (very effective vs defensively armies) .

I agree. With so many people taking landing pads and defense lines, two flamers (possibly 3) can give those gun lines the hot foot and negate all of their precious cover saves.

Not to mention that some space vikings running around the backfield is going to divert some attention away from the rest of your army. It's like finding a roach in your kitchen, because you can't ignore it and it's only going to get worse with them running around.

[Thomas Miles Corbett]

Its because they are not trying to be the normal space marines. Space wolfs have always tried to remain close to their story line and for a player to really get into them the black library stories might be a good start. As with everything tho' keep playing them until you get happy with the gaming style you want.