Pub Panic...

[Mr Mystery]

So, just found out my local, The Royal Oak, which is quite frankly the best Pub in Tunbridge Wells by a country mile...has just had it's freehold put up for sale.

And it seems developers are sniffing around, wanting to tear it down and build luxury flats, which no one can afford, and strictly speaking, the town doesn't want.

This. Sucks.

Literally found this out 5 minutes ago. Hoping Yvonne, the landlady and leaseholder (but not the freehold) can arrange a community type buy out. It's our pub, and it's awesome. And we need to keep it that way!

Any suggestions?

[Kirsten]

depends who actually owns the place, unfortunately they will make a lot more money selling to developers and may not care about the pub. you could oppose any planning application for a new building, and also oppose a change of use. can't think what the technical term is now, buildings are designated for specific types of use and have to apply for a change of use.

[Mr Mystery]

Why? Why does this country have it in for Pubs?

[Kirsten]

most pubs just aren't very profitable these days. I wrote an essay on the matter for my former employers when they asked for suggestions but they ignored me. Pubs over the years have been kept going by people who meet there at the same time on the same days week in week out. they get together and share their news, talk about work etc. these people are now nearly always approaching or past retirement age. younger people now have smart phones, social media etc to share news. we don't have to meet up face to face every day. as a result the local pub is not the popular meeting point any more. in many ways alcohol is a very secondary reason to go to the pub. now that socialising is no longer the primary reason to the same extent, and alcohol can be bought so cheaply in super markets, pubs need to do something else to bring the punters in.

the main reason for going out these days is to get absolutely wasted on drink, laws are cracking down on pubs serving drunks. pubs away from the city centre have less footfall with drink driving laws. clubs get away with more because they are central and very busy at weekends, they don't get penalised the same way, mainly due to simple expectations rather than any actual legal difference. so people drink a bottle of vodka at home on friday night, then they go to a club who are happy to keep serving them anyway.

[Wolfshade]

As Kirsten says.

And quite often they are tied in to unfair contracts with the breweries.

The reason for pubs failing is as you say, people want it to be cheep and let'sface it generic pubs are dull, you can drink cheaper (often nicer) beer in your own living room.

Though having said that, the city centre has started to have more and more real ale pubs cropping up.

[Kirsten]

yes real ale is one of those things that is tricky to get elsewhere. you can buy very nice bottled beers, but proper kept keg ale is different. it is also popular I think because people want to be retro and be seen drinking proper ales.

[Mr Mystery]

Royal Oak has a CAMRA award for its Ales.

And there's nowhere else like it in town.

Pubs do come and go, but we can't afford to lose Pubs like the Oak :(

[Wolfshade]

http://www.camrawestkent.org.uk/

[Mr Mystery]

Yvonne is contacting them.

[Wolfshade]

Crowd sourced pub?

Kickstarter Pub?

[Mr Mystery]

I only I knew how!

Reckon we could ace it dead easily via Kickstarter, even though there'd be little for the investor!

[Wolfshade]

Could make it a members club, so you get a discount on the beer or buy 10 pints get one free.

Host a weekly quiz night with the winners winning a round of beer, and the profits go into the Save the Pub fund.

[Mr Mystery]

No idea if there's that sort of time.

Freehold is up for sale now :(

This is really quite depressing me.

[Wolfshade]

Come to rbum and visit the Wellie http://www.thewellingtonrealale.co.uk/beerboard.php

[Mr Mystery]

Will get Dave the Barman on to this.

Did you know, the actor who played the Barkeep in Shaun of the Dead drinks at the Royal Oak? True story.

[Wolfshade]

I've watched that once, I didn't like it, but that could have been my incredible hangover I had at the time

[Daemonette666]

Check to see if the building the pub is in, can be heritage listed. It might be old enough, and if the Local Council can be persuaded by residents mentioning that they will vote for another party next election if the pub is torn down, they might even give the heritage application a little nudge.

I do not recommend using C3H5N3O9, or C5H8N4O12 to deter the real estates though. The police might get very angry then. LOL (I had to look up those chemical formulas, so I am not an expert in them OK).

[Deadlift]

The problem I think with proper "pubs" is they are no longer trendy anymore. You guys and I include myself are not the norm. We maybe have a higher appreciation of what a social drink is about. But the pubs that are still making money are marketing themselves to the masses. I think I mentioned before my family lease a bar out. The manager / operator does very well and if you said to him the pub game is dying he would laugh in your face. But here's the thing it's not a traditional pub. It's a cafe/bar. In the morning it serves breakfasts and coffees etc, then the lunch crowd hits. Evenings it's then a sports bar or has a DJ on. Again I stress its not my scene And most likely not yours either. But it allows the tenant to pay his bills and live quite comfortable. This is the kind of pub / bars that will survive like it or not.
It helps it in Torbay I guess and as a tourist resort the footfall in the summer can be huge, but the bar has a huge regular clientele that range from builders for breakfasts and old folks for coffees, business types for lunches and then the evenings take care of themselves.

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g190920-d4298518-Reviews-Grand_Central_Bar-Paignton_English_Riviera_Devon_England.html

[eldargal]

Our local public house got in a decent chef, made a menu from local ingredients and tried to keep prices reasonably while doing it. No television, hosts a pudding club, darts competition and a bunch of other things too. Seems to be doing well.

[Bigred]

You should all move to Austin.

It seems like every month another Craft Brewery (aka micro-brewery) (https://www.google.com/search?q=austin+microbrewery&oq=austin+microbrewery&aqs=chrome.0.57j0l3j64.5332j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) opens up. There must be a dozen of them, and they all make amazing small batch brews.

Its a great town for beer lovers.

These two in particular are downright dangerous!

http://www.blackstar.coop/
http://pinthousepizza.com/

[Mr Mystery]

Our local public house got in a decent chef, made a menu from local ingredients and tried to keep prices reasonably while doing it. No television, hosts a pudding club, darts competition and a bunch of other things too. Seems to be doing well.

Oak does all that, well, barring Pudding Club.

But, Bar Billiards? Check. Top down arcade game? Check. Awesome chef? Check.

It's just the Pub Co being morons!

[Dave Mcturk]

is there room for half a dozen gaming tables ? that's another 60 pints a night !

[Wolfshade]

You should all move to Austin.

If you like beer then come to the Wellington in Brum I swear I am not affliated to them, in 2005 they served 2610 different beers in the year. Plus it doesn't have silly warm temperatrures or wildlife that can kill you (well aside from some other Brummies but those sorts are at the trendier places).

And I'm not going to weigh in on the whole Craft Beer vs. Real Ale debate because that is where insanity reigns.

[Psychosplodge]

I see your Wellington, and raise you a Dev Cat...

[Wolfshade]

I've seen your Dev Cat and apparised it for its world beer menu, though they are mostly bottles, consider the proximity to corp and to where I used to live (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=53.377441,+-1.480131&daddr=53.378225,-1.476972&hl=en&sll=53.37821,-1.477064&sspn=0.00075,0.001405&geocode=FaF5LgMdPWrp_w%3BFbF8LgMdlHbp_w&t=h&dirflg=w&mra=ltm&z=18) but the down side was the burgers used to be brilliant, last time I went they were meh.
The Welly firstly has a mouser call Wellie, dart board, exciting cheese evenings (oh yes! Bring and share your own exciting cheese!), and far more keg beer.

[Psychosplodge]

That's not a bad location for a house, or is it all students?

Yeah the burgers aren't what they once were. I think it's the mouser that does it though...

[Wolfshade]

When I was there the four houses running nprth/south of the little square were students the rest were "locals". The local dominos wouldn't deliever but the one out by bramell lane would... I don't know why.

[Psychosplodge]

No idea. Never done the city centre living thing.

[Wolfshade]

It was fun, and very close to the Hicks building and St. Maries.

Worryingly those 5 locations have defined my student life, Home, Hicks, St. Maries, Dev Cat, Corp.

[Psychosplodge]

There's worse ways to define it.

[Wolfshade]

Well the all you can eat indian was in the mix but it closed down :(

[Denzark]

No clever ideas I'm afraid. What it needs is the pub to be seen as a viable, hassle free, profitable venture. Then it will surely be purchased as a pub. I base this on the fact that loads of people want to get into the pub game, but your big newcastle etc breweries make it so hard for franchisees/leaseholders, with tight T&Cs and small margins. So a workable freeholding with strong customer base will be a gem.

If this isn't readily apparent, this leads me to conclude one of 2 things:

1. The current owner/managers whatever they are, haven't given the full picture to their customers, as to level of stress/effort vs. reward - it may not be as viable when you see the harsh numbers in balck and white, as it seems to a regualr in his cups.

2. The current owners may want a quick sell or better numbers that a developer can bring. To this end they maay not have advertised as widely into the pub community as they could have done.

Whatever way it plays, community buy outs have worked, but my experience of them seems to be it is a rural thing, and takes a good team effort.

If you have the team effort, you simply need to act fast.

[Wildeybeast]

Everyone go here (http://www.fairdealforyourlocal.com/) now! Sign up, email your MP etc etc, Pubco reform is the only true way to protect the pubs we love and the decent folk who run them. May sadly be too late for the Royal Oak, but we can save others like it.

[Mr Mystery]

There is a teeny, tiny possible ray of hope....

My mate big Si's dad isn't short of a bob or two, and has been pondering buying a pub for some time....

Given this is a rare opportunity to not only buy a pub, but an otherwise thriving one already turning a profit, which the severing from a Pubco can only increase, there is a chance, however infinitesimal, that he may take it on.....

Even if he keeps the Pubco level of rent, its a winner....