Just a little awesome, righting the wrongs of humanity

[daboarder]

So this is old news (a few months) but I figured you guys might get a kick outta this.

http://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science/scientists-produce-cloned-embryos-extinct-frog

[Build]

Saw this on the news earlier, pretty interesting stuff.

I know that there's a few related projects, one for Mammoths and the other for the Aurochs.

[SotonShades]

Did none of these scientists watch Jurassic Park? This can only end badly!

Seriously though, it would be great to bring extinct species back, even if only to have them in a zoo. Reintroducing anything that has been out of an ecosystem for more than a handful of years could be potentially devastating, but the chance for us to actually see some of the species that we could only dream of or look at mock-up in a museum would be extraordinary.

[Psychosplodge]

Yes! Why don't we just keep cloning tigers every year to keep them in zoos!

[daboarder]

without going into to much detail.

This isn't cloning, what they do is they remove the DNA from the eggs of a similar species, in this case another frog, this effectively "blanks" the eggs then they inject the DNA extracted from a specimen that has been kept in a museum or whatnot, and the cells begin to divide on its own. What you end up with is an animal that is genetically unique, as such you can maintain the genetic diversity of the species as well using this method.

It is a fantastic breakthrough and is ideal for reptiles, birds, amphibians and in particular marsupials (which are, baring echidna's and platapi which lay eggs, born as empryo's)


its very similar to IVF, conceptually.

as to jurassic park, despite crighton's efforts to scare society away from genetic research, all he really managed to do was inspire an entire field of research and a generation or two of scientist's to go with it.

edited for a little technicality

[eldargal]

There is a Japanese-Russian team working on mammoths. Hadn't heard about similar efforts with aurochs though, very nifty. No dinosaurs sadly, I'm sure I read recently they discovered DNA has a limited lifespan so there is no chance of recovering dino-dna.:( Rather pleased, still vaguely terrified of raptors after Jurassic Park.

[daboarder]

yup, DNA has a half life of a few hundred years, amber increases this to a million or two but thats about it. so baring string theory leading to the development of a time machine, which isn't all that crazy seing as time is just another direction, dinosaurs are off the table.

(however a bird is more closely related to T-Rex than a stegosaurus is)

As far as I'm aware, Prof Archer is the leader in this field, they've been working with this idea since the early 90's (the tasmanian tiger project gets in the news every now and then) They are also looking other extinct and endangered marsupials such as the tasmanian devil. ( in other good news another research group is developing a vaccine for the facial tumours that devils suffer from.

personally I'd love to see a thylacoleo.

[Dave Mcturk]

pmsl.. " still vaguely terrified of raptors after Jurassic Park." .. i jump a mile at that cereal ad on tv... "man and dinosaurs dont mix"... ;-}

[DarkLink]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/velociraptors.jpg

[Wolfshade]

XKCD velociraptor references +1

Am I the only one to consider the only reason why the Russians are trying to clone a mammoth is so Putin can hunt it?

Also, we have modern day dinosaurs all around us, I ate one today: Behold the Chicken.

[Psychosplodge]

without going into to much detail.

This isn't cloning,

I wasn't suggesting it was, but I was just thinking we'd solved the worlds zoo tiger shortage problem :D




Am I the only one to consider the only reason why the Russians are trying to clone a mammoth is so Putin can hunt it?


Not anymore :eek:

[daboarder]

I wasn't suggesting it was, but I was just thinking we'd solved the worlds zoo tiger shortage problem :D



Sorry thought you we're about to jump on a holywood style bandwagon about the "perils of cloning"

[eldargal]

It's not unreasonable actually, controversial as it is amongst animal rights nutjobs (as opposed to people who actually want the best for the animals) hunting can be used as a vital tool in making species conservation economically viable. Imagine if in ten years there are, say, twelve mammoths stomping about Siberia. You have an excess of adult males, auction a license to shoot one under supervised conditions. Watch it secure funding for the process for the next five years.:rolleyes:

I'm also hoping they revive the Caspian Tiger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_tiger).

[daboarder]

unfortunately using archer's method if you want to do mammals you need to find a "surogate" mother that would be able to give birth to the child, I guess a lion or tiger would work though

[eldargal]

The Siberian tiger is a close relative so that shouldn't be too much of an obstacle.

[Psychosplodge]

Sorry thought you we're about to jump on a holywood style bandwagon about the "perils of cloning"

Oh no. no problem with cloning endangered stuff. Now people I object to, but that's more because there's too many of them...

The easiest way to save something is to get a captive breeding population in the pet trade. probably wouldn't work with tigers though.

[eldargal]

Siberian tigers are the prettiest sub-species, glad conservation plans are working. There was talk of a population being introduced to South Korea as they have a good habitat for them.

Actually there are a lot of wealthy people who would love big cat pets and have the money to support them. There is a black market. Legalize it and regulate it and it too could be a boon to conservation efforts. But no doubt there will be some animal rights nutjobs kicking up a stink about it.

[Psychosplodge]

True, though it is legal, you just need to fork out for a DWA licence and article 10 paperwork.

The easiest way if you're a bored aristocrat with land is set up as an "overstock holding" site for zoos...

[Wolfshade]

In terms of re-intorduction the Scottish beaver experiment is quite fascinating..

[Wolfshade]

http://i.imgur.com/H2BpC.jpg

[Psychosplodge]

Not convinced. I don't check buildings for potential corgi entry points...

[Wolfshade]

Not convinced. I don't check buildings for potential corgi entry points...

And that is why they will win, nobody expects them.

[Psychosplodge]

Nobody expects the spanish inquisition, are they winning?

[Wolfshade]

I think so, it was very sucessful mechanism to rob the rich, in fact, it might be jsut what spain needs to sort it's debts out...

[DarkLink]

Contrary to popular belief, hunters actually tend to be very involved in natural conservancy. Magazines like Guns and Ammo routinely promote protecting natural resources in hunting articles.


Sorry thought you we're about to jump on a holywood style bandwagon about the "perils of cloning"

Remember, kids, science is bad.

[eldargal]

Yup, also contary to popular belief much of the catastrophic drop in big game population happened AFTER the hunting bans introduced in the 20s-30s. Back when western hunters used to come into rural areas and hire locals to carry stuff and whatnot the locals wouldn't kill animal preying on their livestock as they had more value. When that stopped the livestock had more value so they started killing tigers/elephants/whatever.

Now if you want to shoot something like that in some countries that allow it you have to pay a large sum of money for a license to hunt, say, a lion. You have a limited time in which to do it and if you don't shoot one in that time too bad. At least, that's my understanding it may vary from place to place. The money goes to conserving the remaining population and the licenses are given out to ensure equilibrium in the population, usually by culling superfluous males. Hur.

[daboarder]

The thing is, while it might be economically viable (and yes I can admit that unfortunately thats how the world works), scientifically its kinda *** backwards thinking.

lets say you have 600 of a particular species left. If you kill even one of them your destroying a huge chunk of the available genetic diversity of the species. There are papers published that go into how once a species drops below a critical minimal population there is no way that it can survive, because the lack of genetic diversity means that the species does not have the variance required to adapt to changing circumstances.

Not to mention hunting implies a chance of failure, and hunting an alpha predator should really involve a chance of the predator eating you. What such people are paying for is more a glorified fish in the barrel with a species that can't really afford to loose any more fish.

while we may be able to store and bring these animals back, not losing them in the first place is the easier way.

[eldargal]

Obviously it doesn't work with every species and certainly not for species where genetic diversity is an issue, but for those where it isn't the money can be used to help species where it is.

It really isn't fish in a barrel either. You have you, a guide, and a gun and you have to out track it and maybe kill it. Most hunts end in failure.

[daboarder]

eh I still just don't see the drive to go out and hunt something on the verge of extinction, its just sad really. If I want to go hunting I'll grab a truck, trek out into the bush and shoot a pig. (though don't eat em, bloody things are full of worms)

just to re-iterate, I know its an economy thing, still think its silly.

[eldargal]

It works though, as it is in both the animal and the hunters interest to keep the species alive and not every species has a genetic bottleneck and with some that do losing a few males doesn't really change much. One of the tiger populations has this problem, maybe Siberian, where there were only around ten left in 1930s now there are 300 but the genetic diversity is such losing a male isn't a catastrophe. Having said that Siberian tigers aren't hunted (poached illegally sometimes). It does seem a bit counter-intuitive but it works.

It is more usually with some sub-species of lion (only 'vulnerable' not endangered) and elephants.

Oh I forgot, a program to 'breed back' barbary lions extinct in the wild and virtually extinct in captivity has also apparently been successful. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-15862433)

[daboarder]

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/india-banned-dolphin-captivity-on-moral-grounds

kinda cool too

[DarkLink]

Cheetahs suffer from a lack of genetic diversity.

[daboarder]

Cheetahs suffer from a lack of genetic diversity.

Yup and its causing them all sorts of problems